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Topic ClosedPhil Collins Studio albums
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Poll Question: Which is the best release from a progger's opinion
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [52.94%]
9 [26.47%]
1 [2.94%]
4 [11.76%]
1 [2.94%]
1 [2.94%]
0 [0.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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progvortex View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 27 2009 at 21:54
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

NO knocking the guy, remember he did the most obscure prog with Brand X so let's give him some credit and keep the thread clean.


*struggles to keep mouth shut*
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Points: 1004 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2009 at 09:54
Never understood the hatred for Phil, even while in Genesis.  You would think he was a murderer.  Everything I've read about Genesis tells you that Tony Banks is the one in the engine room.  I also think PG gets too much credit within Genesis.  Except for the Lamb,  the lyrics were a group project.  The music on the Lamb was not by PG and he never played anything of consequence except for the rare flute passage in the very early days. 
 
Back to the original thread, he's got  a weak album (Dance),  an album that is too far pop for my liking ( No Jacket) ,  two excellent albums (the first two), one that is pretty close (But Seriously) .  Both Side is very personal and stripped down and while it is not here, Hot Night in Paris is quite good with Phil stretching into Big Band territory.    
 
Hello gets my vote.


Edited by tdfloyd - July 27 2009 at 09:56
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2009 at 02:46
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Burn em' all Wink
 
Iván
I can't disagree with this assessment.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 15:38
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

but there were a lot of bands making great Prog and great non Prog albums like
 
  1. High Infidelity - Reo Speedwagoon
  2. Paradise Theater - STYX
  3. For Those About to Rock We Salute You - AC/DC
  4. Ghost in the Machine - The Police
  5. Diary of a Madman - Ozzy Osbourne
  6. High 'N' Dry - Def Leppard
  7. El Loco - ZZ Top
  8. Bella Donna - Stevie Nicks
  9. Tatoo You - Rolling Stones
  10. Turn Back - Toto

So, I had no need for Phil Collins in 1981 (or ever to be honest).

Iván
 
Well we agree then after all; this is exactly the crew that Face Value hangs out with.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Points: 732 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:41
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

not bad, not to mention some good poppy albums by "prog" artists, like Alan Parsons and even Steve Hackett.  I too like Face Value, but other than "In the Air Tonight", nothing even sounds prog related to me
 
Ken
Actually Ken even that song is not prog-related.  It's from a different genre.  Divorce-related.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Points: 9066 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:22
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[QUOTE=jammun]
Well, I got several good albums released in 1981, the same year as Face Value.
 
  1. Avenida Larco - Frágil (The first 100% Prog album in Perú)
  2. Moving Pictures - Rush
  3. Alturas de Macchu Picchu - Loa Jaivas
  4. Mystical Adventures - Jean Luc Ponty (His best release ever IMO)
  5. Asturcon - Asturcon
  6. Familjesprickor - Zamla Mammas Manna (Released at the end of 1980, but reached Perú in 1981)
  7. Long Distance Voyager - Moody Blues (IMO the best Moody album ever)
  8. Between Flesh and Devine - Asia Minor
  9. Divergencie - Collegium Musicum
  10. 1984 - Anthony Phillips
And many more.
 
 
yes, Like
 
Eloy-Planets
Mike Oldfield-QE2
Camel-Nude
Anyone's Daughter-Piktors Verwandlungen
Pererin-Teithgan
Sky-Sky 3
Blue Oyster Cult-Fire of Unknown Origin
Osiris-Osiris
Magdalena (Basque)-Lanean Sartzen
Alan Stivell-Terre Des Vivants
Aigues Vives - Water of Seasons
Franco Battiato - La Voce del Padrone
 
 
not bad, not to mention some good poppy albums by "prog" artists, like Alan Parsons and even Steve Hackett.  I too like Face Value, but other than "In the Air Tonight", nothing even sounds prog related to me
 
Ken
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Points: 732 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 05:07
Originally posted by Sacred 22 Sacred 22 wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Burn em' all Wink
 
Iván
 
I'll chip in the gas........................Cool
I've got the Zippo, let's do this. Cool

Man.  Reading through this thread so far, let it be said that Iván is tearing sh*t up in here!  My fingers are very relaxed and feel no need to type more. Approve

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 03:13
No prog and no prog related IMHO. Face Value is innovative but not prog the way PA stipulated it.
Drone sounds slightly progressive but one song is not enough to make an artist prog.
 
Don't get me wrong, I do like Phil Collins, his first two albums especially. On the later albums I find some fillers, but I think he has a great sense of melody, and I think most of his albums are good. Well composed, well sung, good band members, good production.
 
Face Value is his most artistic album, but my pick would be Hello, I Must Be Going. On that album a lot of the typical elements of the Phil Collins sound (drum based soul songs, sensitive ballads and Motown swing) are in a wonderful balance.
 
Plus I'm a sucker for his version of The Mindbenders' Groovy Kind Of Love. The cd single from that song is short but wonderful. Big Noise is a wonderful happy swinging song and Will You Still Be Waiting is a lovely syrupy instrumental. Once again, a great balance, and a lot of variety in a time span of less than 10 minutes.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 01:52
Yep Phil Collins for Prog Related.

I would vote for that!Thumbs Up
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2009 at 00:02
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

you say a very prog-influenced album?  I think In The Air Tonight, while having mainstream tendencies, was not exactly an average mainstream song at the time, yet it was getting some airplay.  Agreed that's only one song on the album.
 
In the Air Tonight is a POP song nothing more IMO, I see no Prog influence in the album, as a fact Phil Collins was trying to get rid of everything that could relate him to Prog.
 
 
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

It was a strange time, that era, musically.  Face Value wasn't prog, wasn't quite pop.  It seems The Wall was released about that time.  I remember being confused...my problem, I was going through major life changes at the time.  I was done with ELP and Yes.  My timelines are foggy, but possibly Crimson didn't even exist at the time.  For those of us who followed prog a bit through the Dark Ages, Face Value was a glimmering little example that perhaps all was not lost.   
 
Well, I got several good albums released in 1981, the same year as Face Value.
 
  1. Avenida Larco - Frágil (The first 100% Prog album in Perú)
  2. Moving Pictures - Rush
  3. Alturas de Macchu Picchu - Loa Jaivas
  4. Mystical Adventures - Jean Luc Ponty (His best release ever IMO)
  5. Asturcon - Asturcon
  6. Familjesprickor - Zamla Mammas Manna (Released at the end of 1980, but reached Perú in 1981)
  7. Long Distance Voyager - Moody Blues (IMO the best Moody album ever)
  8. Between Flesh and Devine - Asia Minor
  9. Divergencie - Collegium Musicum
  10. 1984 - Anthony Phillips
And many more.
 
BTW: King Crimson released Discipline the same year as Face Vaklue, but everybody knows I like very few albums by KC and Discipline is not one of them, so no mention above.
 
So if you were looking towards YES and ELP, probably very little to find, but there were a lot of bands making great Prog and great non Prog albums like
 
  1. High Infidelity - Reo Speedwagoon
  2. Paradise Theater - STYX
  3. For Those About to Rock We Salute You - AC/DC
  4. Ghost in the Machine - The Police
  5. Diary of a Madman - Ozzy Osbourne
  6. High 'N' Dry - Def Leppard
  7. El Loco - ZZ Top
  8. Bella Donna - Stevie Nicks
  9. Tatoo You - Rolling Stones
  10. Turn Back - Toto

So, I had no need for Phil Collins in 1981 (or ever to be honest).

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 02 2009 at 10:48
            
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 23:21
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

As a soloist you are mostly right. Still it does not diminish his influence whilst in the prog scene and his Brand X exploits even make Gabriel look like a Jonathan King science project.
 
Brand X is here by own right, the influence of BRAND X is clear in Prog Fusion, but he was only a part of the band this has no relation with his work as a soloist.
 
And about Brand X being superior to Genesis, well that's your oipinion which I respect but don't share.
 
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

I wanted to keep the thread positive but if people dismiss his works purely because they ain't prog then again progressive is not the only enjoyable genre outthere surely?
 
At least in my case I dismiss his solo work because I believe it's horrible, can't stand 2 minutes of his music, this has no relation with him not being Prog, there's a lot of great non Prog out there, but I believe Phil Collins music is boring Adult Contemporary music.
 
If you check, I have suggested a third Phil Collins band for Prog Related, I'm talking about Flaming Youth.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

If we are going to argue whether Collins's specifically does not claim a place is this small piece of cyberspace of the prog archives then those people arguing against him here are right but hell so what, put him in the just for fun section and let's get down and dirty with some Roger Hodgson solo works....now that is progShocked
 
One mistake (if Hodgson is a mistake) is not a justification for another mistake like adding a man tha has never released a Prog or Prog Related album because some people like his music..
 
Anyway, i haven'theard any Hodgson solo work, except in his concert where I went to listen Supertramp music, which I believe is not remotely Prog but good.
 
Now, more related threads have been moved to the General Music section, there is the right place for Collins (not the Just for Fun section), because what started as a best album poll, has changed into a a suggestion for his addition, but it's not my call.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap
 
 
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
 
Ivan
All fair points Ivan........no Brand X is not superior to Genesis IMO just more obscure that was what I was trying to say in that Collin's dabbled in more progressive side project/s than the others with Brand X
,Flaming Youth is a good call also.
 
Now not for me to say and yes I personally think it is a glaring ommssion of PA to exclude Phil Collins but that is for another time and future discussions. God knows we have argueds that point ad nauseum. 
I am impressed that the second studio album is fairing quite well in the pollsClap 
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 23:08
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap
 
 
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
 
Ivan
[/QUOTE]
But wouldn't you say a very prog-influenced album?  I think In The Air Tonight, while having mainstream tendencies, was not exactly an average mainstream song at the time, yet it was getting some airplay.  Agreed that's only one song on the album.
 
It was a strange time, that era, musically.  Face Value wasn't prog, wasn't quite pop.  It seems The Wall was released about that time.  I remember being confused...my problem, I was going through major life changes at the time.  I was done with ELP and Yes.  My timelines are foggy, but possibly Crimson didn't even exist at the time.  For those of us who followed prog a bit through the Dark Ages, Face Value was a glimmering little example that perhaps all was not lost.   
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 22:27
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

As a soloist you are mostly right. Still it does not diminish his influence whilst in the prog scene and his Brand X exploits even make Gabriel look like a Jonathan King science project.
 
Brand X is here by own right, the influence of BRAND X is clear in Prog Fusion, but he was only a part of the band this has no relation with his work as a soloist.
 
And about Brand X being superior to Genesis, well that's your oipinion which I respect but don't share.
 
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

I wanted to keep the thread positive but if people dismiss his works purely because they ain't prog then again progressive is not the only enjoyable genre outthere surely?
 
At least in my case I dismiss his solo work because I believe it's horrible, can't stand 2 minutes of his music, this has no relation with him not being Prog, there's a lot of great non Prog out there, but I believe Phil Collins music is boring Adult Contemporary music.
 
If you check, I have suggested a third Phil Collins band for Prog Related, I'm talking about Flaming Youth.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

If we are going to argue whether Collins's specifically does not claim a place is this small piece of cyberspace of the prog archives then those people arguing against him here are right but hell so what, put him in the just for fun section and let's get down and dirty with some Roger Hodgson solo works....now that is progShocked
 
One mistake (if Hodgson is a mistake) is not a justification for another mistake like adding a man tha has never released a Prog or Prog Related album because some people like his music..
 
Anyway, i haven'theard any Hodgson solo work, except in his concert where I went to listen Supertramp music, which I believe is not remotely Prog but good.
 
Now, more related threads have been moved to the General Music section, there is the right place for Collins (not the Just for Fun section), because what started as a best album poll, has changed into a a suggestion for his addition, but it's not my call.
 
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap
 
 
Probably his best album (for the ones who like it) but not Progressive at all IMO.
 
Ivan


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 01 2009 at 22:31
            
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 22:01
I think Face Value is a pretty decent album, with at least two great songs (that would be the first two). 
 
But our old friend Richard Thompson covered the 'lay your emotions on the table' angle better, particularly with Shoot Out the Lights (which was of course special since Linda was along for the ride so that they could actually spout venom at each other, albeit in dreamy, surreal musical ecstasy (Just the Motion).  And he expresses pure venom much better on Across a Crowded Room.  And the music's better too boot.
 
All that aside, when the real drums come in on In The Air Tonight is a nice little moment in time.
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 20:29
^ As a soloist you are mostly right. Still it does not diminish his influence whilst in the prog scene and his Brand X exploits even make Gabriel look like a Jonathan King science project.
 
I wanted to keep the thread positive but if people dismiss his works purely because they ain't prog then again progressive is not the only enjoyable genre outthere surely?
 
If we are going to argue whether Collins's specifically does not claim a place is this small piece of cyberspace of the prog archives then those people arguing against him here are right but hell so what, put him in the just for fun section and let's get down and dirty with some Roger Hodgson solo works....now that is progShocked
 
Anyway looks like Face Value is winning hands down, which is arguably his most progressive workClap


Edited by Chris S - July 01 2009 at 20:30
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 16:13
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

He should be in prog related, but certain members of the old guard would be extremely distraught if Phil Collins were ever to get a page here at PA, so it is never going to happen.
 
Why must he be here?
 
Has he wrote any Prog composition as a solo artist?
 
Are his songs related to rog?
 
No in boith cases, he has no business here.
 
Iván
Old guard sighting. LOL
 
Not only the Old Guard as you call us (Even when I doubt anyone is olde at the age of  44 years...You'll be my age in 5 years LOL):
 
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Posts: 12585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2007 at 05:35
As I've just mentioned in another thread, I've jsut noticed that PC is already on our list of artists rejected for Prog related.
The Ultimate Progressive Rock Music Discography, Reviews and Forum.
www.ProgArchives.com
 
 
 
I believe that was clear enough almost two years ago.
 
It's not a complot of the evil old guys, it's that simply Phil Collins hasn't written a Prog note in his life, at least as soloist.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 01 2009 at 16:34
            
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:27
Looks like it was you against the world.  LOL
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Points: 66555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:23
I'm not reliving this discussion.  Please feel free to visit this thread where all of the arguments for and against have been made.   http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43521&KW=phil+collins&PID=2690691#2690691
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:20
A valid inquiry, nonetheless.  Stern Smile
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Points: 66555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2009 at 15:19
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

He should be in prog related, but certain members of the old guard would be extremely distraught if Phil Collins were ever to get a page here at PA, so it is never going to happen.
 
Why must he be here?
 
Has he wrote any Prog composition as a solo artist?
 
Are his songs related to rog?
 
No in boith cases, he has no business here.
 
Iván
Old guard sighting. LOL
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