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Henry Plainview
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Topic: anybody else sick of online meanies? Posted: April 30 2009 at 21:59 |
Sorry for the necropost.
Dean wrote:
an emoticon only ensures that ambiguous comments are interpreted correctly. |
Yes, that is what it means, why do you have a problem with that? Sarcasm sometimes requires ambiguity. I accept your point that it doesn't diminish a deliberately offensive comment, but I don't think that means it has no meaning.
What I meant was - what does a sticky-out tongue actually mean? - really - what does it really mean? In the UK it is a sign of insolence and rudeness, not a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for a rude comment. |
You're not in the UK, you're on the internet. ;-)
However, while I cannot claim perfection, I do strive to refrain from making such posts myself since I am aware that some of the things I type through the tears of laughter are not always interpreted exactly as I typed them |
But how is it your fault or even your problem if someone misinterprets what you said, despite your best efforts to make sure it is interpreted correctly?
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Alberto Muñoz
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Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
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Points: 3577
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Posted: April 22 2009 at 09:35 |
johnobvious wrote:
What I see a lot of here on PA is that if anyone says they like something, someone else has to come along and say it sucks. This gives them an air of superiority. The chance to demean what other people enjoy seems to drive people to post. I could start a thread saying ice cream sundaes are good and someone would come along and tell me I am full of it. So I try to temper pretty much any enthusiasm towards bands and albums anymore because I don't want to hear negativity towards my tastes. It just isn't worth it. I am sure it happens all over forums around the web. Not much can be done except to avoid forums, I guess.
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Nothing more close to the truth
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Jim Garten
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Joined: February 02 2004
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Posted: April 22 2009 at 02:27 |
topofsm wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
I think 'worried' is the wrong word; "fed up with" is nearer the mark - incidentally, it's easier to read a post as being ironic if for example a "" emoticon is used. You were being ironic, I assume? After all, I cannot think you'd pop into a thread just to randomly insult other members... that way just leads to problems... |
Sorry, I assumed due to the topic of this thread that more people will get the joke, so I didn't feel the need for an emoticon. I'm the same in real life. My friends sometimes don't know whether to take me seriously or not |
No problem - thought that was probably the case
+++
Back to Dean's query on the emoticon - this is one I only use personally when engaged in 'banter' with another member (usually in The Shed), a bit of one-upmanship... used in this context it becomes (to my mind anyway) a sort of shorthand for "Yah Boo Shucks", a childish tongue poking. I would be mortified if I inadvertently genuinely offended someone here.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: April 22 2009 at 00:10 |
Dean, You're good-looking, have a great haircut and have a good taste. There, said it. It's taken me years to admit that.
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 23:30 |
Jim Garten wrote:
I think 'worried' is the wrong word; "fed up with" is nearer the mark - incidentally, it's easier to read a post as being ironic if for example a "" emoticon is used.
You were being ironic, I assume? After all, I cannot think you'd pop into a thread just to randomly insult other members... that way just leads to problems... |
Sorry, I assumed due to the topic of this thread that more people will get the joke, so I didn't feel the need for an emoticon. I'm the same in real life. My friends sometimes don't know whether to take me seriously or not.
The only place I really see any internet trolling is on the few music related discussion places I browse through. It's only so long before someone calls another a fag for liking "band A". I don't go to many other discussion sites though, so that might just be me.
Just don't get me started on Youtube.
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johnobvious
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Joined: May 11 2006
Location: Nebraska
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Points: 1367
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 21:36 |
What I see a lot of here on PA is that if anyone says they like something, someone else has to come along and say it sucks. This gives them an air of superiority. The chance to demean what other people enjoy seems to drive people to post. I could start a thread saying ice cream sundaes are good and someone would come along and tell me I am full of it. So I try to temper pretty much any enthusiasm towards bands and albums anymore because I don't want to hear negativity towards my tastes. It just isn't worth it. I am sure it happens all over forums around the web. Not much can be done except to avoid forums, I guess.
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 18:29 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Dean wrote:
What does actually mean at the end of a post? Does that really make things okay? |
It should, unless someone is saying something like "Dean, I'm going to break into your house to rape and murder your daughter. ;-)" or "I hate you Dean because you are profoundly ugly and have a stupid haircut and your taste in media is so atrocious and your reasoning is so poor I can only assume that you are borderline retarded. I can't imagine how you manage to form coherent sentences. :P"
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That illustrates my point - tagging a ;-) or a :-þ on the end of any comment is practically meaningless - the severity of the comment is not diminished by adding a jokey little emoticon if the original comment was specifically offensive - the comment should be humorous and not open to misinterpretation with or without the emoticon - an emoticon only ensures that ambiguous comments are interpreted correctly. No comment that mentions rape can ever be humorous or ambiguous - in that example a ;-) is not a "free-pass" to say what you please. Comments about my appearance will never offend me - in reality I am ugly with a bad haircut and poor taste - few will dispute that, and I do have difficulty forming coherent sentences (there is more than enough evidence of that on this board) - your assumption may be incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with your reasoning.
What I meant was - what does a sticky-out tongue actually mean? - really - what does it really mean? In the UK it is a sign of insolence and rudeness, not a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for a rude comment.
Henry Plainview wrote:
I don't understand why you seem to be disregarding the context the web does provide just because it isn't the fuller context of real life interaction. |
I don't disregard it in the slightest - quite the opposite in fact - it is the simple recognition of that limited context that results in the restraint, that the freedom to express myself within those confines has specific limitations set by the medium and the forum in which that medium operates. The multinational nature of the Internet also plays a contributing factor in to what I can say and how I say it - what passes for sarcasm and wit in the UK is not the same as in the USA or other parts of the world, what is innocuous to one culture is highly offensive to another. The context is not the restricted nature of having to convey meaning by mere words alone, but that the readers of those words are not of the same culture and background as myself - that the context is far broader than I would ever experience IRL and the interpretations of what I write are more often taken as literal since they deeper meaning will get lost in translation.
Without regard to context it is the anonymity of the internet that makes people think they can get away with saying what they please without regard for others and I take that into consideration when I read any drivel typed into a post by nondescripts who once read a book without pictures and think they understand the whole wealth of human experience as a result of it. Little of what anyone can mash onto the keyboard is going to offend me, not because I am especially thick skinned, or exceptionally forgiving, but simply because whatever insult that person can put together tells me more about them and their character than they will ever know of me.
However, while I cannot claim perfection, I do strive to refrain from making such posts myself since I am aware that some of the things I type through the tears of laughter are not always interpreted exactly as I typed them, because, even though I know that I can say a hurtful thing and tag a :-þ on the end of it to make like a joke, that deep down I really meant it and the recipient may know that too.
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What?
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 17:25 |
Sometimes people feel offends when you don't share their arguments and they think that is an attack.
Other times people think that you have no rights to express your opinion.
And other times people feel that my previous two above lines is about them
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 17:16 |
Dean wrote:
What does actually mean at the end of a post? Does that really make things okay? |
It should, unless someone is saying something like "Dean, I'm going to break into your house to rape and murder your daughter. ;-)" or "I hate you Dean because you are profoundly ugly and have a stupid haircut and your taste in media is so atrocious and your reasoning is so poor I can only assume that you are borderline retarded. I can't imagine how you manage to form coherent sentences. :P"
I don't understand why you seem to be disregarding the context the web does provide just because it isn't the fuller context of real life interaction.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Epignosis
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 17:01 |
My balls are precious.
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Raff
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 16:55 |
In Italian it means 'annoy' or even 'bore' (as in "that film was ball-breaking"). There are quite a few variations on the theme as well, such as rompipalle (ball-breaker), which means a bore, a pest, and the very popular exclamation che palle (what balls), meaning, what a boring thing/situation. OK, enough with the language lesson for now ...
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The Doctor
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 16:29 |
In the US, that phrase can have two meanings...when used as "I'm just breaking your balls", it means I'm just screwing with you. But when used in "You're breaking my balls", it means you're being too agressive and demanding too much (particularly in negotiations or boy/girl relationships).
Edited by The Doctor - April 21 2009 at 16:30
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 16:24 |
Raff wrote:
"Breaking your balls"? I guess it has the same meaning as in Italian (i.e. annoy, pester someone)... |
It doesn't mean that at all in British English - it means literally what it says - and I would regard it as being aggressive is someone said it to me.
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What?
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Mr ProgFreak
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Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:59 |
^ exactly. I'm a huge Sopranos fan ... if you don't know them yet, consider this an honest recommendation!
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Raff
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:50 |
"Breaking your balls"? I guess it has the same meaning as in Italian (i.e. annoy, pester someone) ...
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Mr ProgFreak
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Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:47 |
Dean wrote:
What does actually mean at the end of a post? Does that really make things okay? |
It's like saying "Come on ... I'm only breaking your balls". If I remember The Sopranos correctly, that doesn't make things okay all the time.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:42 |
Epignosis wrote:
Dean wrote:
Oh, I think I'm much nicer on the Web than in real life. ... I have a wicked sarcastic streak that I cannot use here because it can so easily be missinterpretted. Without the bio-feedback of facial expression and body language that kind of exchange is impossible on the web and just comes across as plain cruel and nasty - even with emoticons....
What does actually mean at the end of a post? Does that really make things okay? |
I am a master of saying funny things and using sarcasm, and my foot still stays in my mouth. I attribute this to other people's ignorance (people who clearly don't understand irony and subtlety- and this at educational institutions more than anywhere else).
I have been called into a boss's office no less than three times to explain something I said that I thought was completely understood humorously.
And what I'm doing now professionally does nothing to bolster my ever-dwindling faith in the basic intelligence of most Americans.
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Oh, I haven't had faith in that for years, my friend.
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Epignosis
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Joined: December 30 2007
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:36 |
Dean wrote:
Oh, I think I'm much nicer on the Web than in real life. ... I have a wicked sarcastic streak that I cannot use here because it can so easily be missinterpretted. Without the bio-feedback of facial expression and body language that kind of exchange is impossible on the web and just comes across as plain cruel and nasty - even with emoticons....
What does actually mean at the end of a post? Does that really make things okay? | I am a master of saying funny things and using sarcasm, and my foot still stays in my mouth. I attribute this to other people's ignorance (people who clearly don't understand irony and subtlety- and this at educational institutions more than anywhere else).
I have been called into a boss's office no less than three times to explain something I said that I thought was completely understood humorously.
And what I'm doing now professionally does nothing to bolster my ever-dwindling faith in the basic intelligence of most Americans.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:35 |
I have this feeling that for me that would be never
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What?
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
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Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:33 |
Sometimes
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