Is Selling England really the greatest prog album?

el dingo wrote: American Khatru wrote: Well, I still find More Fool Me a little grating when I turn to that album, but I'm sure I'm simultaneously, helplessly thinking forward to the betrayal (if that isn't too strong) of the later albums.    Thanks - I wish I'd posted that instead of just using the word 'poo'! That's one of the major reasons I dislike the song so much - it is indeed a precursor of what was (unfortunately) to come.   For what it's worth I don't think the word betrayal is anything but accurate.

Thanks el D, I appreciate the agreement, and real nice that it comes from a senior member .

American Khatru wrote: Well, I still find More Fool Me a little grating when I turn to that album, but I'm sure I'm simultaneously, helplessly thinking forward to the betrayal (if that isn't too strong) of the later albums.

Lazland makes a great point here.  We really should, as prog listeners (read: thinking listeners), remember things within their context.  I grew up on prog, but was too young and did not have the honor of seeing those great shows - and what shows they must have been, with PG in those costumes and the awesome musicianship all around!

Well, I still find More Fool Me a little grating when I turn to that album, but I'm sure I'm simultaneously, helplessly thinking forward to the betrayal (if that isn't too strong) of the later albums. 

Every few pages when this thread is revived I have to chime in....

A B Negative wrote: el dingo wrote: More Fool Me = poo.   IMHO More Fool Me is one of the rare occasions where Collins doesn't sound smug but actually sounds vulnerable and believable.   Is MFM disliked because it isn't full of literary allusions, isn't in 7/8, and only lasts slightly more than 3 minutes? Or is it because it's a love song? We all know proggers' minds are on higher things than mere emotion!

No it's not because, well at least not for me. It just doesn't suit the album AT ALL. If it were in ATTW or W&W alongside Your Own Special Way, or even in Trick of the Tail, it would fit much better.

I don't find it seriously bad as some may believe so, it's just that I skip it because when I turn on SEBTP, it's because I want some awesome Prog.

Of course everyone's entitled to their opinion.  "More Fool Me" however is not so great because, well, despite its merits it is just sentimental, a sentimental track on an otherwise pretty high-minded album.  The lyrics are really nothing, showing what would come once he took the helm full time.

As for its being the simple song in the middle, I get the need for those completely.  I enjoy the bar-room brawl tunes that ELP would throw into their otherwise weighty records (it somehow comes off as having more integrity though than Collins's thing), or "Ognuno Sa" (Everyone Knows) in Reale Accademia di Musica, not to mention every little tuneful melody that comes along in Tull's work (the return-sections of Thick As A Brick come to mind, or a stand-alone tune like "Wond'ring Aloud").  This prog fan, and I think more of us than you give credit to, does very much "appreciate a nice melody if it's not in a weird time signature or doesn't last at least 8 minutes."

I hope I didn't come off as upset, because I'm not.  Just a'bloggin'.  Believe me, I wish I was in your fair country right now instead of mine.  Then we could just talk about all this over an amazing steak. 

(opinionated  )

crimson87 wrote:   ... Some of [SEbtP] songs are a total yawn () to me. The production is impeccable, but it lacks the power Nursery Cryme for example has. Alongside BSS , Close to the Edge is the most representative prog album because Prog is about strong love hate reactions , either you love it to death or you can't stand it. Listen to the Hammond solo in the middle of CTTE or the outro of And you and I. That's so over the top , it represents prog extravaganza much better than SEBTP which can pass as a refined rock album.

I'm coming in very late to this thread, and no one has any reason to care what another person thinks at this point (since it has all been said), but I do want to point out Crimson87 for special mention.

Along with the point made by so many others of the futility of the question in the final analysis, and the fact that "most popular" does not spell best, Crimson87 would seem to stand alone (unless I missed something).  Prog is extravaganza, or I'll refine it by saying "measured extravaganza."  CTTE is total - there is no way around this.  It is, IMO, the greatest (whether or not most popular) because each minute is true to the last, period.  In a word, it's perfect.  SEBTP does at times let down, and I can't even listen to More Fool Me anymore.  Come to think of it, I'm not sure what makes SEBTP a better album than Foxtrot in people's eyes; for myself, I love every minute of Foxtrot.

el dingo wrote: More Fool Me = poo.

Petrovsk Mizinski wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: Nah, but hey, at least it's better than CTTE. wat

haha that's exactly what I thought

For me, SEBTP is a damn fine album to be sure BUT it does contain the odd lurking pile of poo re "More Fool Me' and 'the Battle of Epping Forest' the latter being perhaps the weakest of all the large scale Genesis concept pieces y'all ?

Interestingly, it's also one of the longest single album prog classics out there, clocking in at over 53 minutes, but hey, we don't measure music by the yard round here do we ?.




Edited by ExittheLemming - April 06 2009 at 07:03