Is Selling England really the greatest prog album?
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Topic: Is Selling England really the greatest prog album?
Posted By: J-Man
Subject: Is Selling England really the greatest prog album?
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:29
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I was looking at the top prog albums of all time, and while I love SEbtP, I'm not sure it's the best prog album ever released. It's great and all but even some other albums in Genesis' discography (The Lamb and Foxtrot) are better. I gave it 5 stars and it is a monumental album, but is it really the best prog album of all time in the history of the world? Your thoughts?  ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Replies:
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:30
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No. I can think of about 100 albums I like a lot better. ------------- 
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Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:39
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Yes. SEBTP is the best prog album because it is rated number 1 on what I can only imagine is the #1 prog resource out there. Is it my favorite album? No. Not really close even. But the fact that it appeals to so many people and so many people think highly of it, it is the best at this time.
------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:40
That is a very good point... -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
TheCaptain wrote:Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:43
| It's pretty darn good, but there are better albums. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:45
I have fond memories of the album when I first heard it and it still turns up in my circulation, but this whole "greatest" or "best" thing is nuts. But then I don't want to personally engage you in the battle of Epping Forest or anything. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: poslednijat_colobar
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:49
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I think not, that's just good concurrence of circumstances. In other sites, other great album had this good concurrence of circumstances to became number 1. In our site SEBTP had this luck. SEBTP is SEBTP. It will be the same album if it drops to 2,3,4,5 or 10 place. It will not became another album. It's the same with the other great albums. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 09:59
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Offf...every time an album (other than CTTE) is #1 on the "Top rated prog albums" list, someone jumps in and ask "I don't find it the best prog album ever released". It's the "top rated prog albums" list, people. Top rated =/= best prog album ever. ------------- 
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:02
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Well, it's my favourite Genesis album, personally I think it's their best.
Is it the best of them all? Probably not, but it's pretty close.
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:18
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It may well be. It has some unbelievable work on it that ranks up there. It has two different songs (Firth and Moonlit Knight) that may be the best prog song of all time. At the same time, it's far from flawless.
CTTE and Dark Side are closer to flawless, but DSOTM isn't exactly the best example of what I think of as Prog.
There are a number of albums that if someone threw it out and said they thought it was the #1 prog album of all time, I'd say "ok sure."
What do you think should be there? ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:19
| There exists no album, prog or otherwise, that I could possibly rank above all others. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:21
So...Western Culture and Love Beach are of the same rank for you?  -------------
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Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:24
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For me CTTE is what I consider to have all the elements for the top prog album. As far as Genesis, I think Lamb is their best album however I think it is good that the top rated albums change from time to time. Otherwise it would be a boring listing. ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:24
Goof. I can easily rank Western Culture above Love Beach. I cannot rank Western Culture above every other album I have. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:26
Still don't get your point, but I'm not stop delving into this anyway. -------------
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:29
Just notice that most people have said that it's not their favorite prog album. Sure it's the top rated, but is that because it's the best or because of it's popularity. It's a great album. I gave it 5/5 stars, but I still don't think it's the greatest prog album. There are probably a lot of people like me, who love it, gave it 5 stars, but still don't think it's the best. Because so many prog fans know of this album, and also love it, that's probably how it got to be the highest rated prog album, possibly without being the best. -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:32
It's because of popularity, because there are many "ratings without reviews" which don't state anything at all, as far as arguments go (especially not if it's the greatest prog album ever) - plus many reviewers just gave 5 stars because it's the best Genesis in their vision, or it's an extraordinary prog album. My point was that we don't need to signal every change of top 1 spot between Close To The Edge, SEBTP, Thick As A Brick (it's always these three or so anyway), and then turn it into a discussion "is album #1 the best prog album ever?" (which has been done more than enough times by now ).-------------
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Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:38
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Well actually people tend to forget that there is no such thing as BEST, there is only FAVOURITE... and while SEBTP is a hell of an album, my FAVOURITE is TFTO.
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:44
Interesting that SEBTP contains BEST (P)... 
No, it's not really the "best", I go with Ricochet: SEBTP = top rated (as of 25, March, 2009).  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:46
| I don't care much for it. Moonlit Knight and Firth of Fifth are awesome songs, but the rest of the album is pretty average. Foxtrot and Trespass, on the other hand, are pure brilliance from beginning to end. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:48
What a coincidence... -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:50
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an album has to be known to be recognized. there are probably a lot of better albums, probably even a lot of that would be considered to be "better" by those who currently think SEBTP is the best, if only they knew of them. it is the same with books. do you have any idea how many masterpieces have been written that just never were discovered? a good example of an almost forgotten masterpiece is "Les Chants de Maldoror" by Lautréamont. if surrealist Philppe Soupault had not discovered it by chance in 1917 (in the mathematic section of a small Parisian bookshop, of all places!) and had passed it on to André Breton, who was as equally enthusiastic about the book as Soupault, we would have been bereft of what is now widely considered to be a masterpiece of French literature -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 10:50
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There is no "best" prog album. Anyone who tries to say there is should try to get a job with a pretentious, head-up-ass magazine, like RollingStone or NME.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:00
Tell us what you really think  -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:03
That's all there's to it.
 SEBTP is up there because it has MANY five star ratings, so it's liked a lot by a lot of people. That said, it is my favourite prog rock album , eh, for somebody else, it would be some other album. |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:04
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Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:11
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Is just a popular liked album, doesn't mean it's the best. I think it's
impossible to determinate such a really complex thing, but with this
kind of rating algorithms you have to expect that most of the popular
albums will be highly rated (if others loved it, maybe I will). It's
just like water, everybody likes it but you would hardly say it's the
best drink of the world...
------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:14
We all know Close to the edge is the real best prog album of all time.  ------------- 
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:34
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the top 100 (top 10 to be exact) is like a prog rock starter kit
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:37
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i just checked out the top 100 list, and Close to the Edge has the most ratings at 838 as of today. SEBTP and TAAB have 765 and 524 ratings, respectively. so CTTE is clearly the most POPULAR album on the site. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:39
it is the most well-known. that does not automatically make it the most popular ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:39
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As ever, much of this sort of thread is down to personal opinion. I happily gave SEBTP five stars, but my personal favourite from this band is Nursery Cryme.
However, as a previous post said, if you get, as you do on this site, so many people rating it the highest prog LP of all time, that clearly makes it the fan's favourite. It doesn't, however, make it the BEST - that is, and always will be, a matter of personal taste.
I tend not to think of the best or favourite prog album of all time nowadays - I think of my favourite five as I think there is so little to choose between them. That, of course, does not detract from the fact that there are piles of other great works out there for us to enjoy.
For what it's worth, my top five are:
1. Marbles
2. Brave
3. Nursery Cryme
4. Going for the One
5. The Wall
The order changes a hell of a lot, dependant upon my mood. SEBTP is not there, but it is still a mighty piece of work and essential for any serious prog collection. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:43
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I've rated a lot of albums masterpieces here, but besides CTTE, I don't know of any that are better prog than SEbtP. After many many listens I appreciate Lamb as an artistic work that matches CTTE, but it's still so hard to bite off in its entirety. SEbtP grabs you from the first note and can continue to satisfy for decades.
So I'm curious what other people would even put in the league of the big 2 or 3. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:55
wouldnt that be the same anyway? popular doesnt always mean best or good either. there's a bucnh of 1 & 2 star ratings. besides, i think DSOTM is the most well known, in the strictest sense. though i know no one who calls that album (or PF in general) prog rock. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 11:56
We do? I disagree. Heavily. See? There goes the "all" part (one we shouldn't use for any kind of album). -------------
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 12:06
| From what I have heard and this is not to say that there is not some buried 'masterpiece' somewhere out there on someones hard drive, but the album 'Close to the Edge' is the best I have heard. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 12:16
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HI,
So sad that we have to "rate" and "rank" something in order to like it ... so, the next thing you gonna tell me is that if I convince you that Genesis isn't prog that you will dump the album and think it's poop and merde!
Please ... drop it.
No one will think you are weird because you like this better than that ... but to say that this is prog and something is not as prog ... has got to be the most abused, useless information for anyone here, not to mention that I would consider it an insult ...
Take a hint from the musicians themselves ... they do not create music to be "prog" ... ever!
Kill the term plz ... and besides why bother using if it's never gonna be in the rock hall of sh*t (I'm embarassed to say the other 4 letter word!) anyway!
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 12:36
 Selling England by the Pound is an album that I have to be in the right mood in order to listen to it. Some of it's songs are a total yawn ( ) to me. The production is impeccable , but it lacks the power Nursery Cryme for example has.Alongside BSS , Close to the Edge is the most representative prog album because. Prog is about strong love hate reactions , either you love it to death or you can't stand it. Listen to the Hammond solo in the middle of CTTE or the outro of And you and I. That's so over the top , it represents prog extravaganza much better than SEBTP which can pass as a refined rock album.
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 12:43
The ratings don't lie, SEBTP is flavour of the month. Mind you some Invisible Touch, Open Your Eyes or even Love Beach fans will disagree ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 13:02
There are Love Beach fans?  -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 13:13
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Leaving aside the question if SELLING ENGLAND is "the greatest prog album" or not (it may well be - perhaps I'll feel that way next Thursday!) I'm surprised some people prefer FOXTROT or even NURSERY CRYME. Those two are much more flawed, in my opinion.
'Moonlit Knight' thrills me, 'Firth of Fifth" thrills me, 'Cinema Show' thrills me; 'I know what I like' is fun, 'Epping Forest' is even (much) more fun, 'After the Ordeal' is delightful, why, sometimes I don't even skip 'More Fool Me'!! No other single Genesis album has that many great moments. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 13:20
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As a Genesis / Gabriel fanboy, I consider them to have three masterpieces - Foxtrot, SEbtP, and Lamb. Nursery Cryme is definitely a step down IMO though still excellent. 5*
SEbtP
Lamb
Foxtrot
4*
TotT
Trespass
Nursery Cryme
W & W
All the rest really are just novelties. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 13:32
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Ditto those who say there is no best, or greatest, Prog album. Obviously it's one of the biggest/ most prominent (greatest in that sense), and an important album, but I don't think it most meritorious when it comes to the spirit of progressive rock. Personally, I find the album inconsistent, and also think of it as one of those essential albums for Prog beginners, but I think other albums progress rock further in regards to what rock can be, and more successfully (in terms of expanding the lexicon of rock and exploring rock's potential). Though I like it, and once loved it mostly, It wouldn't even rank in my top 500, but that's subjective. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 13:42
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Well, as others have pointed out, there is no "best" anything outside of our own individual minds (and in this case, musical tastes). Okay, maybe that's a little too all encompassing, but you get the point. As to Selling, I love the album, but it's not my favorite Genesis album or my favorite prog album. But it is a great album. I like Nursery Cryme the best actually, and find it to be flawless. Others may well disagree and be equally correct |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 13:50
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 14:08
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Not the Greatest but one of the greatest -------------  |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 14:49
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I actually am not too fond of SEBTP either; it is of course one of the good Genesis albums, but in my personal ranking it would appear on 4th place at best, after the Lamb, Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme. actually it would be a close battle with TOTT for 4th spot
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 15:32
| I find it to be a excellent, but seriously, excellent album. But not sure if I would place it #1 of all Prog |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 15:43
Seriously speaking, I have never thought in terms of 'the greatest prog album', but rather of a series of albums that could be considered essential for the genre. In my personal opinion, SEbtP belongs there (though it is not a perfect album by any means) on account of its three masterpieces - "Dancing With the Moonlit Knight" (with its 'epilogue', "Aisle of Plenty"), "Firth of Fifth", and "The Cinema Show". |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 18:18
| A truly beautiful album. Perfect in execution and composition (okay More Fool Me is not fantastic) and a great production too. Never ceases to enthrall me. Totally desrving of the no 1 spot. |
Posted By: Eapo_q42
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 21:09
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I'm a Wish You Were Here kinda guy myself. That doesn't really change, either. The top 5, top 10, constantly changing. The number one is pretty much always WYWH. |
Posted By: mourningknight
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 21:55
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There really can't be a "greatest " Prog album can there? There just can't. But this sure is a great candidate. All I know is that from the first acapella lines to the last fading notes ,Selling England By The Pound is an amazing emotional and musical journey. The cover is so unique and beautiful and the atmospheres and lyrics are just so English. Absolutely brilliant! Early Genesis can't be beat as far as I'm concerned and this album is a true beauty from start to finish. It is definately one of the great masterpieces of Prog in my opinion that's for sure! |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 01:35
| Yeah, I'm with the people who say there can't be a "best" prog album. After all, what one person considers to be the best could be complete trash to someone else. It's just a matter of opinion. That being said, I think it's a good album, but compared to some others it gets very little play from me. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 01:38
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Nah, but hey, at least it's better than CTTE. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: BAD ALCHEMY
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 06:25
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I think it is the best Genesis album and was the best sounding on the recent 70-75 box set ,as well as 'the lamb' those 2 albums stand up today really well, but i also adore 'Trick Of The tail' & 'Wind & Wuthering'
Best Prog album? 'Red/'The Court''-King Crimson,'Free Hand-Gentle Giant would all be contenders. ------------- Obed Marsh |
Posted By: Badabing666
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 09:10
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Although I am a self-confessed list maker this thread, and others of a similar ilk, proves to me that these debates are all about personal taste. And IMHO I woud agree with Negoba in his views of that SEbtP, Lamb and Foxtrot are their masterpieces.
PS I shall check out Pentangle's Basket of Light from your current list of faves
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 10:21
I'm not sure I'd cite Selling England as having great production quality. It's not bad, but it's definitely not noteworthy either. -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 10:23
You got my sig! -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:17
Almost completely agree with Jean, IMO is the most frioendly Gabriel era album, and I like darker Genesis more, so I oplace it in a 5th place after:
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:28
Says a man who is doing his best to beat me at owning the most embarrassing albums... ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:32
I agree pr2244. Whilst the production on SEBTP is much better than the earlier ones (they really did have DREADFUL production), just compare it to the production on Floyd's DSOTM which was released around that time. There's no comparison.
I emphasise I'm not comparing those album's content, just the production.
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 12:32
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SEBTP, CTTE, DSOTM, ITCOTCK... they're all pretty much archetypal progressive rock albums - ones people refer to if anyone doesn't know what prog is.
Whether that makes them the best or not is a moot point - sure, they're going to get the highest number of reviews, as a vast majority of prog fans own them & it's easy to review an album everyone knows, so chances are, they're the forst ones they review when coming here in the first place. -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 13:07
Fully agree, as a fact I have given all of them a 5 stars rating, probably in a 10 scale most of the will also reach the top of my rates, maybe except SEBTP, which I would rate with a 9, so I would need a 100 scale to mark differences between them.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:07
So basically acronyms is where the good albums are at....
Anyway, besides MP2:SFAM and many other album in other genres, it's clear that Genesis recorded the best symphonic rock albums and some of the best in any genre... I'd say that SEBTP deserves a spot on any top-10 just with DWTMK and FOF (usuing acronyms for songs now)... those two songs by themselves would make the best EP of all time.
And the rest of the songs are good. But please... you're asking too much when you want an album where alll tracks are like those two...
I still think F and ATOTT are better than SEBTP as whole albums but this one is better than NC, TLLDOB, W&W, ATTWT, T, and also albums by other bands like CTTE, F, R, TYA, TW, DSOTM, WYWH, A, ITCOTCK, R, LTIA, TPATG, TAAB, MP, CIA, KGB, NBA, NFL, FIFA, BUDWEISER, etc, etc, etc, etc..... damn freaking etc..... -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:10
I just quoted wisdom sir.... general wisdom...
Anyway, the only way to understand light... is to know darkness....
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Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 14:17
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Can't argue with the point about Dancing with the Moonlit Knight and Firth of Fifth, those two songs are excellent and among Genesis' best. Personally, there probably is a perfect progressive rock album out there, but why bother worrying about it. Its like splitting hairs when one considers how many truly remarkable albums have been cut over the years. Any discussion of the sort is superfluous to me... ------------- 
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 16:44
| I definitely don't think it's the greatest prog album of all time. I'd rather have it up there than Close to the Edge though. I like both albums, but even though I do sometimes listen to and like Yes I really don't get the fascination with them. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 16:48
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yes, it probably is the greatest prog album.. sorry |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: March 27 2009 at 04:23
http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=2047">  |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: March 27 2009 at 04:37
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IMO it's a great prog album that I like very much, but to me not the greatest.
My italics cannot make it the greatest prog album of all time 'cos there's no such thing. ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: senor
Date Posted: March 27 2009 at 04:53
| SEBTP is surely the most complex work Genesis has done. But the thing is there is no 'best prog album'. I'ts like trying to pinpoint the best view of the Andes, or the best martini. Or the best way to explain this without coming off as completely pretentious. I always thought 'And Then There Were Three' was cool because it was transitional and very strange, which to me is progressive. Any piece of art that makes you say "Huh?" is progressive to me. Fun stuff. |
Posted By: laztraz
Date Posted: March 30 2009 at 18:07
| I actually don't like it that much. I tried. It's not even in my top five Genesis albums, much less top albums of all time. I really don't understand it's appeal. However, many people disagree, so what do I know? |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: March 30 2009 at 18:25
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 30 2009 at 23:29
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I agree with most everyone here, a great album but not the best.
One thing we should realize is that our particular taste in music will pretty much determine if we consider a record, band or artist good or not, so it's hard to be objective when it comes to some music towards which we have a particular feeling for. That said, I think is one of the greatest records, but to determine that one in particular is the best, is quite difficult.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 30 2009 at 23:45
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it's far too easy to simply say "it's great but not the best" ..the question is begged: what is the greatest prog album? According to the posts here, there is no right answer. But that's not really addressing the question. If there is an album worthy of Best Prog Record, then why not try to figure out which one it could be. I mean, there aren't really that many that would qualify, maybe 10 to 20 on a given person's list, or a collective list. And when held up against musical history, I think Selling England is an easy contender for Best and would support a compelling argument for it. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 31 2009 at 05:43
production does definitely NOT enter my judgment when listening to an album, unless it is truly horrible so that you can hardly hear the music at all. did you read the Genesis book by Armando Gallo? the story of the production of "Foxtrot" should open your eyes about the situation rock groups were in in the early 70s. the album was recorded in a small studio, and kids came rushing in all the time, disturbing the recording, until Genesis decided to let them sing the "we will rock you, little snake" chorus in "Supper's Ready". from then on the kids felt important and remained absolutely silent while the group recorded. you can't expect great production under circumstances like these, and most groups were fighting similar circumstances back then. it is not like today, where a record company offers you a week of studio time and the best gear so you can produce your album (provided your albums sell well) ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: March 31 2009 at 07:52
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I have a problem putting an album as the best ever prog album which has weak moments. My best ever are Foxtrot and Abbey Road.
------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 31 2009 at 12:15
I totally agree with you, but it would be very hard to reach a conclusion, since you would get all kinds of opinions as to why an album is or not worthy of the title.
The problem is that most people go by their musical taste and preferences, and the vast majority don't have any musical training. It's easy to judge if a song/album is good, but to write, compose and arrange music is not easy, and most people don't have a clue of the process. I think that attempting such a task would lead to a lot of arguments, and hardly reach the desired conclusion. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 31 2009 at 12:15
I totally agree with you, but it would be very hard to reach a conclusion, since you would get all kinds of opinions as to why an album is or not worthy of the title.
The problem is that most people go by their musical taste and preferences, and the vast majority don't have any musical training. It's easy to judge if a song/album is good, but to write, compose and arrange music is not easy, and most people don't have a clue of the process. I think that attempting such a task would lead to a lot of arguments, and hardly reach the desired conclusion. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: March 31 2009 at 12:18
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In my eyes? Absolutely not. In general? It seems that way.
For me, nothing by Genesis has even come close to being 'the best'. They just aren't as good as the other prog 'gods' in my opinion.
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 31 2009 at 14:55
The problem for me isn't Genesis. The problem is the album. Selling England I wouldn't argue as the best, but The Lamb I might... -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: XunknownX
Date Posted: March 31 2009 at 22:53
| To me it's a masterpiece and among the abolute best albums ever made, but it's not my very best. |
Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 10:43
| No. It's a very good album and a great introduction to prog. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 11:01
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Yes, there I said it. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: SilverEclipse
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 16:14
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I find it to be incredibly overrated. "The Battle Of Epping Forest" and "The Cinema Show", taking up over 20 minutes of the album, meander all over the place and never pull me in like "Supper's Ready". Foxtrot is better and I can think of a sh*tload of other ones. ------------- "and if the band your in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon" |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 16:16
Cinema Show is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree somewhat about Epping Forest and that it's overrated, but you can't criticize Cinema Show. -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: fernandobz
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 11:53
| Petrovsk MizinskiKisten musin please.. Seilling is the Best, for all the history |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:21
Huh? Battle of Epping Forest overrated? If there's one song in SEBTP which is under-appreciated, it's Battle of Epping of Forest, almost no one mentions it as a killer track from SEBTP, neither from Genesis' catalogue. When I first heard SEBTP, my faves were the first 2 classics, Dancing with the Moonlit Knight and Firth of Fifth, now they're the other 2, Cinema Show and Epping Forest, simply stunning, of course, I do still love Firth of Fifth, though lost my love for Dancing, and I kind of think it's overrated. |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:40
 Here here, Epping Forest is an absolute gem. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:43
Features some of Gabriel's most creative lyrics and some remarkable playing from the band. I absolutely love it. Here come the cavalry... ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:45
 Both of you are guys of good taste |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:46
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I think the Mona Lisa is overrated - the David, however, check out those hands. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:51
Well of course
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 19:24
I do like Epping Forest, and don't want the wrong impression. I said SOMEWHAT overrated. It's a good song, but doesn't match the perfection of Firth of Fifth or Cinema Show in my mind. -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 19:36
Still I can't see the overrated word make any sense. No one rates it above any other song off SEBTP, either it's mentioned in the same league as other classic Genesis songs. Overrated does not equal something you like, but you prefer others above it: "I said SOMEWHAT overrated. It's a good song, but doesn't match the perfection of Firth of Fifth or Cinema Show in my mind." |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 05:11
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An interesting debate here over the relative merits of the major players on SEBTP.
Here's my take, I rate them in this order:-
1. Cinema Show 10/10
2. Firth Of Fifth 9.75/10
3. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight 9.25/10
4. Battle Of Epping Forest 8/10
Any other takers?
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 05:23
It's Firth, Dancing, Epping Forest and Cinema Show in that order for me. Cinema Show is beautiful but sometimes reminds me of Camel.
Firth and Dancing are neck to neck, one has THAT guitar solo, the other has the immortal acapella intro, the album is worth the price on the strength of either of them alone. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 15:36
Yeah, why not?: #1 Cinema Show 10/10 #2 Firth of Fifth 9.5/10 #3 Battle of Epping Forest 8.75/10 #4 Dancing with the Moonlit Knight 8.5/10 |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: April 04 2009 at 04:21
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^
I can't pick a favourite from the four mentioned. Just like the flow of the album. Apart from that obvious horrendous little track that ruins the whole shooting match. More Fool Me's very existence means SEBTP cannot be the greatest prog album. But it comes very close - definitely in my top five. ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 04 2009 at 05:25
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