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The Pessimist 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834 |
 Topic: Death MetalPosted: January 04 2009 at 05:09 |
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It's rising I've heard. |
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg |
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 17 2008 Location: Arizona, USA Status: Offline Points: 1698 |
Posted: January 04 2009 at 01:34 |
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Uh off topic, but one time a friend of mine from New Mexico applied for a job in Washington and wasn't accepted cause they didn't accept foreign applicants.
 Anyways, what about the price of tea in China?
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Posted: January 03 2009 at 12:54 |
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Ooppsss !!! I accidently insulted you in a big way there......... Knowing the history of New Mexico, I am really really sorry about that. This year's first big bloomer, this one. |
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mithrandir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 25 2006 Location: New Mexico Status: Offline Points: 933 |
Posted: January 03 2009 at 12:04 |
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actually, they were from Mexico, I live in NEW Mexico,  I do like Shub Niggurath though and still have their first couple of 7"s |
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834 |
Posted: January 03 2009 at 07:24 |
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Chuck would be so proud  Best emoticon ever? I think it should be available on the PA emoticon menu  
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:20 |
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Bang the head that doesn't bang!
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:18 |
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THIS IS METAL! Sorry, just had to post that |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:13 |
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Well, they are metal, not EXTREME metal.
Metal is vast, Dave and very few metalheads like all the subgenres of metal in the first place. |
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 22:10 |
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THIS is metal And by the way, are your "1" and "SHIFT" keys broken? |
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 21:51 |
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My dear sir, you surely realize that mankind would be no poorer in a prosaic sense if the arts did not exist! Have you never met anybody who does not read or listen to music and does not paint or appreciate paintings but is extremely successful in his chosen walk of life, because I have. Art is an indulgence and in no way required to forward "progress" as we know it but the appreciation of art can enrich your experience of life immeasurably. And therefore projecting your perceptions of art on a subset of art - in this case, extreme metal - and wondering why it need exist - when like any art form, it perfectly need not exist at all - is coutner-productive.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 21:41 |
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Aw, as if they could have imagined something like extreme metal becoming a form of music!
You did not quite grasp the concern I was addressing. Once you have aesthetic standards, the next step is for a self-anointed cultural police to emerge and turn up their noses (or ears) at anything that doesn't SOUND pleasant to them. The point is, it is not necessary for music to sound pleasant according to SOME conventions laid down by SOME people. That music needs to sound pleasant is itself a very limiting restriction and only believed in by those who cannot visualise the scope for depicting different emotions through a more abrasive or inaccessible approach to music. I am not really being paranoid in talking about a cultural police; in my country, unless you move in dandy circles, you cannot escape cultural policing right through your childhood and teenhood and if you are in really bad luck, even in adulthood, be it teachers or elders, every effort is made to wean the child away from any activities that said elders did not indulge in thier childhood.
Edited by rogerthat - January 02 2009 at 21:43 |
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 19:27 |
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Hi. I stand corrected on point 1, 2 and 3. On point 4, you should had added your country's very own Shub Niggurath. That was a good band. Black Metal was underground before we Norwegians added petrol and lighters together. The scene then became commercial and pretty much mainstream. Today, the youth has to declare themselves Christians to shock their parents and the society. |
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008 Location: Arizona, USA Status: Offline Points: 1698 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 19:24 |
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1. You can use the quote box if you find it necessary. Makes it easier for conversing with specific people.
 2. I think you're condemning all death metal for it all being a prayer to satan, at least that's what you're implying by saying the DT song isn't a prayer to satan. In fact, there's plenty of death metal nowadays that doesn't focus entirely on death or satan. For example, there is a death metal/metalcore band called Becoming the Archetype that are Christian, you may want to try them out.
As for me, I find some lyrics about death intriguing, and they offer a new side of perceiving life that can be refreshing. For example, Tool's lyrics in "10,000 Days (Wings Pt. 2)" about his dead mother passing on to the other side I find very cool, and that happens to be one of my favorite songs.
And if you're a fan of Dream Theater, then you should realize that they couldn't possibly have made Metropolis pt. 2 without singing about death.
And just realize that you don't always have to pay attention to the lyrics. There's far too much good metal out there to pay attention to the embarrasing lyrics that go along with them.
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mithrandir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 25 2006 Location: New Mexico Status: Offline Points: 933 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 18:18 |
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1) there was never a compilation called "Black Metal" in the 80s, perhaps you're thinking of the Death Metal comp on Noise Rec that has Hellhammer, Helloween, Running Wild, and Dark Avenger ?
2) in addition to Possessed, in 1985 Onslaught and Vulcano respectively had songs named Death Metal, 3) Death, Black, Thrash, indeed all came from the same primordial stuff, although in the early to mid 80s those terms were bandied about quite liberally, in addition to Power, Speed and Doom, 4) not sure how one can say BM emigrated to Norway? Blasphemy, Beherit, Samael, Profanatica, Mortuary Drape, Master's Hammer, Root, Sabbat (jap), Necromantia, Tormentor, etc all from several different countries and all were playing BM long before the BM trend in Norway Edited by mithrandir - January 02 2009 at 18:20 |
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 17:52 |
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I am sorry to inject some sanity into this debate, but let me clear up where Death Metal originated from: In the beginning, Death Metal was called Black Metal. There was even a couple of compilation albums called Black Metal. Those only included Death and Thrash Metal bands. Death Metal originates from: 1. A song on a Possessed album. 2. The band Death 3. Or both. Black Metal was pushed back down into some basements. It then emigrated to Norway. It then rose again with a murder and some arsons. Well, numerous arsons in fact. Even I got an meat axe deposited through my bedroom window.......... after I had vacated that flat three months before. This is according to the mythology. The Death Metal scene swapped place with the Black Metal scene in the dingy basement and the Death Metal scene disapeared from the face of the earth for a while. Today, both scenes are alive and well. |
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1818 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 14:16 |
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That's hilarious because I picture a harmless guy as LaBrie singing those lyrics! |
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008 Status: Offline Points: 424 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 12:33 |
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 10:45 |
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Death Metal does not necessarily carry a religious message - but of course sometimes it does. It's not always satanistic though ... there are even Christian Death Metal bands. Personally, being an atheist myself, I have a very neutral position on the subject ... which means that I can go from Neal Morse - One to Celtic Frost - Monotheist without any problems.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 492 |
Posted: January 02 2009 at 10:24 |
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Hi Rogerthat - I love Horror movies and have a large collection of them! Amongst those movies are some pretty extreme ones and I find little merit in those movies other than to severely shock the watcher. I have them in my collection today because they are there but I would rather not have ever seen them - if they had been denied to me because of an artistic standard in the movies then I would be no poorer! Hi topofsm - those lyrics nearly put me off of Dream Theater until I listened (on advice) to the track as a whole and it isn't a praise of Satan - it forms part of a story where Satan is not the victor. It aint a prayer or praise of Satan!!! |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: December 31 2008 at 21:14 |
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Yes, I concede that that is all it is to me. I could get cynical and say it's a rather cumbersome means of amusement, but the only one I know of - I could be "normal" and just join friends and acquaintances in a discotheque after work but that kind of life doesn't interest me, so instead it's got be non-mainstream music - in general - and early 20th century authors in the solitary comfort of home!
Well, is content in music only lyrical? This is a question to ponder over. What of the effect musical movements have on one's moods and feelings because I find that far more appealing. Again it may be only my opinion, but what is the relative importance of lyrics and well the actual music in music? Your thoughts..
In principle, I agree but in practice, this can lead us back to another form of censorship. There is a formal body of music theory, knowledge and rules and every work of music must at least broadly adhere to it. But what happens if we start imposing aesthetic standards? The problem is aesthetic appeal is too subjective to be universally understood and followed as a standard. My city has many 19th century and early 20th century buildings which look beautiful to my eyes but not to the little kids who will be architects years hence; they would rather have the gaudy, hideous glass monsters for which these relics are more and more making way. In the same way, if we imposed aesthetic standards on music, I have no doubt that eventually everybody would subscribe to people like Davetheslave or PROGMONSTER that extreme metal is just noise and growls cannot have any emotion.
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Death Metal
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topofsm wrote:
