Make me sound like John Mclaughlin!

darkshade wrote: St.Cleve Chronicle wrote: I mostly just use the dorian scale with the added blue note (b5) on all styles of music (if the song's not in a major key, of course). I don't think it's so much about scales, but more like the way you use them. i did that for a while and eventually found myself getting bored and not picking up the guitar for a while. you have to mix it up with lydian, dorian, mixolydian, phrygian, pentatonic, harmonic minor, major and minor modes, tri tones, whole tones, chromatic, etc... etc... etc... ive recently been trying to learn some indian scales. as a guitarist, ive always wanted to sound like a jazz sax player. not in actual sound, but in what a great jazz sax player would actually play, and play that on guitar

Regardless of mode the thing McLaughlin has always emphasized is to always know where you're going. Scales Scales. You always hear musicians who shared hotel rooms with him back in the sixties say that the guy would stay up all night practicing scales like a man possessed. This is probably why I was never any good with the guitar. I never had the patience with scales. I just wanted to let her rip. But it doesn't work that way unfortunately. I find that it's an easy instrument to play but very difficult to play well. It's so easy to be a copy cat on guitar. I don't know if I'm making any sense here. A guitar teacher once said to me to stay away from tabs makes you lazy. I don't know how McLaughlin feels about tabs. Anybody?

Vibrationbaby wrote: So why don't you pick up a sax and try to sound like a guitar player?

because Coltrane already did that.

St.Cleve Chronicle wrote: I mostly just use the dorian scale with the added blue note (b5) on all styles of music (if the song's not in a major key, of course). I don't think it's so much about scales, but more like the way you use them.

i did that for a while and eventually found myself getting bored and not picking up the guitar for a while. you have to mix it up with lydian, dorian, mixolydian, phrygian, pentatonic, harmonic minor, major and minor modes, tri tones, whole tones, chromatic, etc... etc... etc... ive recently been trying to learn some indian scales.

as a guitarist, ive always wanted to sound like a jazz sax player. not in actual sound, but in what a great jazz sax player would actually play, and play that on guitar

I mostly just use the dorian scale with the added blue note (b5) on all styles of music (if the song's not in a major key, of course). I don't think it's so much about scales, but more like the way you use them.

Also, play very fast.

seems to me John's sound is more to do with his approach, attack, and intensity of feeling.. but you guys know that of course

mrcozdude you might try playing around with the individual notes in the chords you're using (jazz or other); play the notes in different patterns and out of sequence over the rhythms and a nice effect can be had (this is slightly different than an 'arpeggio' which is usually a chord's notes played in proper sequence)  ..and skip a string now and then, go to the one two or three away instead of just the closest one, good luck








Edited by Atavachron - November 26 2008 at 20:13

That altered mixolydian scale is pretty much phrygian dominant.

C Phrygian Dominant - C - Db - E - F - G - Ab - Bb - C

It's called that probably because it is otherwise the phrygian mode except for a major third, which turns the I chord into a dominant 7 chord. Another name it is called is the Spanish Phyrgian, because is it common in some spanish music.

It's just a mode of harmonic minor, common in a lot of spanish stuff. It allows you to get the Major I, Major II, Major III progression (based on the phrygian roots) or set of chords you hear a lot.

If you're soloing in phyrgian dominant, you can also flat the third (IE do a minor third) a lot as it is a minor mode. You can even hear this in the recognizable malaguena melody (C - E - G - C - E - G - F - Ab - G - F - Eb (minor third) - Db - C)

Also, as easy money said, the diminished scale is pretty good for, well... all diminished chords. So, If you see a Cdim7 chord, you can play:
C - D - Eb - F - Gb - Ab - Bbb - Cb - C

And wholetone works good over augmented chords. Ie, you see a Caug chord, play:

C - D - E - F# - G# - A# - B# (C)


Edited by Guy-McPerson - November 25 2008 at 11:57

Sounding like a true jazz fusion fusion player is not simply "let's use a few scales and modes here and there".
It's defined by a whole sound, not by some scales or modes, as mentioned by the second poster.
Learning the modes of the melodic minor can make the difference between a mediocre fusion player, to one who can really play the genre.
The main reason why I never tried to play much fusion is because currently my knowledge extends only to the modes of the major scale.
Learning the modes of the melodic minor and the chords associated with them, is what you should really get into.
And remember, it wont come over night.......but as someone who has said you know the modes of the major scale, you should be fully aware by now of how much work it takes not only to understand it in theoretical terms, but to actually apply it in a musical way.


Edited by HughesJB4 - November 24 2008 at 17:55

 I wouldn't say there's any modes or scales that define jazz/fusion. But you can try messing around with the whole tone and diminished scales. The bebop scale, or just try doing chord tones but include the leading tones. (IE, a C Major 7 would be C E G B, include B (which is already there by chord definition) D#, F#, and A#.

Personally, I would care more about making your own distinct sound. Although John Mclaughlin is definitely not the worst guitarist to want to emulate.