Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Led Zep and Unconscious vs self-conscious prog
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedLed Zep and Unconscious vs self-conscious prog

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65441
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Led Zep and Unconscious vs self-conscious prog
    Posted: September 24 2008 at 21:24
and if you ever see Central Park, NYC 1968, grab it












Edited by Atavachron - September 24 2008 at 21:25
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65441
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 21:24
oh the Fillmore shows were magic, possibly their finest early period

Back to Top
Alberto Muņoz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 21:22
And what about Fillmore West 69? Surely  the best version of As Long as I Have You.




Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65441
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 21:09
San Diego '72 for me, a great version of 'Over the Hills' (several months before it was released)  ..you get to hear Planty really belt out those highs that he never would again in concert











Edited by Atavachron - September 24 2008 at 21:10
Back to Top
Alberto Muņoz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 20:56
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

yes, and '72 is also really interesting cause they didn't play much, and Plant was still at his vocal peak


Check the bootleg Charlotte 72 for me have the best version of Rock and RollClap




Back to Top
The Quiet One View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 20:47
For me Zep has some Heavy Prog songs, Achilles Last Stand, Stairway to Heaven, No Quarter. I think Rush without Zep, it wouldn't be the Rush everyone knows about. I hear a lot of influences in 2112 and Caress of Steel, why in Farwell to Kings they reached to their very own Prog identity.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65441
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 20:40
yes, and '72 is also really interesting cause they didn't play much, and Plant was still at his vocal peak


Back to Top
Alberto Muņoz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 19:13
Helsinki 70 is a very good one along with KB Hallen of the same year




Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65441
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 16:59
 ^ 1969 is fantastic (the few shows from '68 are also marvelous)  ..'77 is spectacular though for me their peak was two years earlier


Back to Top
Alberto Muņoz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2008 at 16:37
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

what's the best LIVE Zep album to get based on this discussion? something from their later period? Ive been on a hard rock/classic rock/etc... binge updating my collection with great live albums.


if you like the early material - 1973 and before - How the West Was Won is interesting, but I still think Song Remains the Same is king   ..as for boots, almost anything from the 1975 tour is brilliant


 
Any bootleg of 1969 should please the harcore fan.
 
Also the 1977 tour has equally moments that the 1975 tour




Back to Top
Jim Garten View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin & Razor Guru

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2008 at 07:21
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:


Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

what's the best LIVE Zep album to get based on this discussion? something from their later period? Ive been on a hard rock/classic rock/etc... binge updating my collection with great live albums.
if you like the early material - 1973 and before - How the West Was Won is interesting, but I still think Song Remains the Same is king


Until the end of last year, I wouldn't have agreed; I thought 'How The West Was Won' knocked seven shades of good-for-the-roses out of 'Song Remains The Same'.

Then Jimmy Page completely remastered SRTT - that album now shows exactly what a formidable force LZ really were on stage.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
Back to Top
Roj View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2008 at 04:58

Call me a heathen, in fact you can call me whatever you like, but I prefer the Transatlantic albums to these by Zeppelin.

My favourites by Zepp were the debut album and Song Remains the Same.
Back to Top
MercyfulFatesWarning View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: September 09 2008
Location: Great Neck, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2008 at 10:58

Well, I'm trying to make the case that Led Zeppelin are a bit more than just 'loosely related' to the Prog genre.    Smile    And yes I agree that most people here have probably already sampled Zeppelin and The Beatles.   The thing for me is that I'd gone on to explore and expand my experiences in the Prog/ Neo-prog genre only to find that a lot of these bands don't come close to the level of 'progginess' that Zeppelin achieved.  Not to bash anybody specific, but some of the newer bands that 'consiously' set out to write and compose music that is overtly progressive end up with music that's over-wrought and re-hashed.   So for me, it was really just a rediscovery and new appreciation for what Zeppelin did in their time.

 


Edited by MercyfulFatesWarning - September 15 2008 at 11:11
Back to Top
Negoba View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2008 at 19:34

Led Zeppelin will always be the best rock n roll band of all time. They certainly pushed the envelope more than the vast majority of "prog" bands, and if one was to rate albums independent of this site, Zep would be way ahead all but perhaps a few of the classics.

But two point here.
 
I come to this site to find out about a specific subset of modern music. Zeppelin's music is only loosely related to that subset. More importantly, since the purpose of the site, IMO, is to help everyone expand their experience, who honestly hasn't already sampled Zeppelin (and the Beatles for that matter) before they got into anything prog? I bought Indukti because of it's rating on this site. I doubt anyone is going to see a rating on Zeppelin and go out and buy it.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65441
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2008 at 17:02
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

what's the best LIVE Zep album to get based on this discussion? something from their later period? Ive been on a hard rock/classic rock/etc... binge updating my collection with great live albums.


if you like the early material - 1973 and before - How the West Was Won is interesting, but I still think Song Remains the Same is king   ..as for boots, almost anything from the 1975 tour is brilliant


Back to Top
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2008 at 13:06
Good points about the Zepp, their adventurous artistic path, and the safe grounds in which prog bands sometimes rest. Except for that 3.69 and 3.86 are not at all low ratings. To me a 7 (or three and a half stars) mean "very good" (the scale being 6-good, 7-very good, 8-excellent, 9-exceptional, 10-masterpiece).

Edited by Swan Song - September 14 2008 at 13:07
Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2008 at 13:04
what's the best LIVE Zep album to get based on this discussion? something from their later period? Ive been on a hard rock/classic rock/etc... binge updating my collection with great live albums.

Edited by darkshade - September 14 2008 at 13:05
Back to Top
MercyfulFatesWarning View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: September 09 2008
Location: Great Neck, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2008 at 12:47
LOL  Yeah, I understand what you mean about the reviews.   It's just that, to my mind, something is a bit skewed in progdom when TA gets a 4.09 and an all-time great like Houses gets a meager 3.69.   Anyway,  I'll try not to take the review scores too much to heart since after all, it's only a number.   
 
 
Atavachron, your comment about the progressive arc taken by their studio albums is a good one.  Starting from LedZep self-titled, Page builds upon a foundation of blues and folk, and step by step, block by block, album to album he manages to create some huge.... what.... we don't know (Achilles Last Stand? Kashmir?).   But that was the beauty of it.   By the time of their last albums, the evolution that began with the hellishly visceral Dazed and Confused became clear.  Page was obsessed with filtering layers of sound through violin bows, theremin and mellotron sounds, 12 string and double-necked guitars.  He used everything at his disposal and he was extremely lucky to have monstrous talents Plant, Bonham, Jones around him in order to help fulfill his vision.  
 
When I look at Zep's 8 studio albums, I'm reminded of Beethoven's symphonies and the path/progression that he took, starting out with a very basic Haydn-esque 1st symphony, but then building upon that like an architect from one work to the next until he ended up with his magnum opus 9th Choral symphony (not that In Through the Out Door qualifies as a magnum opus, but you get my drift). 
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2008 at 09:22
People should realize that the rating numbers are for amusement purposes only.  The methodology by which they are derived is a secret formula that us mere mortals are not privy to.  They are ultimately of some value, but the quality and information in the text of the reviews are what count and can be most useful.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
Tapfret View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8594
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2008 at 02:24
I would bet money that most of the early prog was subconscious prog.  
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.