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Dean 
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
 Topic: The Zodiac - Cosmic Sounds for PA inclusion ?Posted: July 21 2009 at 11:17 |
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^
 nice.
You'd better be quick with your review
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What?
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3081 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 11:15 |
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3081 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 10:41 |
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Oh I get it now. Just havenīt visited that genre before. But I see how it works now. Thanks for the guidence. Iīll add the album shortly provided no one beats me to it. |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 10:10 |
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^ You can do all that yourself I believe
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What?
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3081 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 10:09 |
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So no help is needed for the album addition ( cover, name of musicians...etc)?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 10:02 |
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What?
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3081 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 09:53 |
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Well I guess that makes me look like a total fool
 . Iīll gladly do the bio and the album addition too if no one else has signed up yet.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 08:31 |
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If someone wants to do the addition, The Zodiac has been approved for VA.
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 17659 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 07:34 |
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3081 |
Posted: July 21 2009 at 02:08 |
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Ok then. I consider that case lost. Iīm not gonna use one second more of my time on this.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 16:23 |
No it's not.
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What?
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 15:48 |
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^ wait a second, it's the same guy but with a diffrent hat and a fake mustache.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 15:26 |
Me.
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What?
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Captain Capricorn
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: February 21 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 14:23 |
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The Zodiac... is a collection of pieces by moog/mellotron composer Mort Garson who, IMO, would fit better in electronic rather than proto or psych ...It seems to me that the best chance The Zodiac... has of making it into the archives is by riding in on the coattails of Garson
Edited by Captain Capricorn - July 20 2009 at 14:25 |
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3081 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 14:11 |
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Ok then. Any suggestions as to who I should contact to get The Zodiac evaluated for VA: Concept albums? |
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 12:30 |
Hi Umur, I fear we can't add this artist to Psych Prog genre, as it is from the year 1967.. (pre-1969 bands to proto)
It's a good album, but if it doesn't find a place here, don't be sad Umur!
 From the solutions above, I would suggest focusing to swapping & disgesting ideas concerning Various Arist choice, if there are argument agains proto inclusion.
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3081 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 12:12 |
I actually thought that we didnīt discuss their place in Proto-prog anymore as theyīve been clearly rejected. But as they were not rejected in Psych but only moved to Proto-prog thereīs still a chance there. So if we should keep discussing the subject letīs talk about their possible inclusion in Psych or VA: Concept albums. Letīs leave the proto-thing alone in this thread and take that discussion in Akinīs thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58666
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
Posted: July 20 2009 at 03:48 |
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Hi Akin, I agree that there are some flaws in the proto section, that's why I've volunteered to help out and make sure that more bands that don't belong don't get added. Sorry, but I don't have the authority to remove any bands, otherwise I would go through and check the validity of every band in there.
it isn't up to you or I to decide these things though, it's a team effort, and the results of a team effort are never totally satisfying to all team members. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65766 |
Posted: July 19 2009 at 22:26 |
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^ I disagree -- when I began rediscovering Prog, the 'proto-prog' thing seemed quite right and shined a little light on history, how prog had not spontaneously mutated (except on a few key albums, some considered protoprog), and that in fact the whole notion of certain prototypes for what came later might be of some interest to a fan.. it certainly was for me.
Protoprog doesn't exist as a sovereign genre, it is an idea, a way to connect the musical, historical and cultural dots and to determine how those things began vining outward in multiple directions. In fact real proto-progressive rock music is a far larger arena, as evidenced in this thread-- i.e. the Beach Boys would be an excellent addition, in fact IMO they are criminally under-acknowledged for their contributions to the Art Rock scenes. As for Jefferson Airplane, there is little doubt as to the influence their sound, textures, artistry, and compositions had on popular music at the time. It was huge, bigger than it seems now, but if you watch some of the old footage of them in concert round about '66/'67, you see how new that was and how attractive and large sound they'd achieved. The Dead were also progressive and I wouldn't mind seeing them here either. Part of the issue is that it was such a creative period it's challenging to separate the early art rock from simply inventive pop music - in fact some protoprog was exactly that, which is why it can't be seen as a genre but rather music of that era most important to prog. Edited by Atavachron - July 19 2009 at 22:27 |
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 976 |
Posted: July 19 2009 at 21:58 |
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Well, I never stated that they deserved to be added because of early use of moog, because synth exotica means nothing to prog. In fact, synthesizers became a staple for prog bands, but they were late in adopting the synths, except the mellotron and, arguably, the Hammond Organ, which can be considered a synthesizer. After the impact of Theremin in Beach Boys "Good Vibrations" and the presentation of Moog Synthesizer during the Monterey Pop Festival, many bands adopted the synthesizers, but the forerunners where bands not related to prog, like Byrds, Monkees and even Beatles and Stones. If it was to choose one album representative of the synth exotica / electronic / advanced production, it should be Joe Meekīs I Hear a New World. This was the big deal about electronics, synths, production.
In fact, Zodiac is more interesting for being a full concept album, blends poetry and narration with music, uses advanced instrumentation and the music has some touches of classical and jazz.
The problem with it all may lie on the Proto Prog category, but if it is so, it is the biggest blunder of PA. Under the guidelines you use to deny Zodiac addition, more than half of the bands listed under Proto Prog should have been denied as well. I understand that most of those bands were added before the new policies, but they make the category completely misleading and a change is needed. Of course there are other "wrong" additions that cannot be removed because of the policies of the site, but usually they are the minority. With Proto Prog, it seems to be exactly the opposite. If influence is so important, no band should be added to the category anymore, because it should be either widely recognized and, consequently already added or they are not important.
How can someone explain how Jefferson Airplane was prog and influential and Grateful Dead not, if Grateful Dead was a huge influence even to Jefferson Airplane? How can one justify Tomorrow, Quiet World, Touch, Giles, Giles & Fripp, Sweet**ter, Andromeda etc and not the hundreds of obscure psych/art pop bands, once Tomorrow, Quiet World, Touch, GG&F, Sweet**ter, Andromeda are all more obscure than hundreds of psych/ art pop bands (and none of them have "more elements" than the others, otherwise they would be placed in full prog genres)?
So my concern is with proto prog. Forget about Zodiac. Proto Prog is useless and misleading to anyone who wants to learn more about the origins of prog rock, this is the whole problem.
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The Zodiac - Cosmic Sounds for PA inclusion ?
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UMUR wrote: