Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Jazz Fusion or Jazz Prog Fusion
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedJazz Fusion or Jazz Prog Fusion
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Tapfret View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8592 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jazz Fusion or Jazz Prog Fusion
    Posted: September 10 2008 at 22:30
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:



Have it, very Zappa/Holdsworth influenced. SIC he really does his own thing. Improvision  is currently on a UPS truck somewhere on its way to me. Clap
 
No argument wrt Holdsworth/zappa - a number of reviewers stated the album smacked of the Ruth Underwood period Mothers fronted by Holdsworth (including me), which propelled Alex into avoiding the Holdsworthian stuff on subsequent recordings (unlike a number of other Holdsworthian guitarists I could mention). It inevitably with the two albums done with Terry Bozzio (Delete & Roll and [sic]) that he hasn't completely escaped the dense Zappareque polyrhythms. Improvisation was one of my favourites last year - I believe Abstract Logix may have follow up,  although in the meanwhile they have issued a live recording of Alex (as MP3s) recently and recorded earlier this year


Despite the number of guys out there that can be considered Holdsworth clones, I still really dig the warmth of that type of solo (I have been trying for years to get that tone out of my guitars).  That tone works with just about any genre for soloing. 

Featuring Ourselves is still my favorite of the 2 I have. Though my jaw still drops every time I hear the wickedly fast harmonics on the opening number of SIC.  From the clips I have heard of Improvision, I think it well get some heavy play when it gets here.

Bandcamp
Back to Top
Tapfret View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8592 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 22:21
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Wait, I've got it!  Let's call it Fuzz. Tongue


ohhh....I get it. You are taking the first 2 letters of fusion and putting them together with the last 2 letters of Jazz to make Fuzz. That sounds like a great idea, but you are leaving rock out of it. Poor rock.

I know, instead let's do the same thing with the last 2 letters of rock instead and call it Fu....uh...oh,maybe your idea is better.Embarrassed

Bandcamp
Back to Top
DataBase View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: September 07 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 17 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:25
Transit Express-Opus progressif(1976) could also be included. Sadly only one of the afore mentioned bands is listed in the PROGsemiARCHIVES.Confused
Back to Top
DataBase View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: September 07 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 17 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:14
Jazz Fusion? or Jazz(psychedelics influenced) Fusion?
 
Confluence-Chroniques Terrestres(1979), Pataphonie-Le Matin Blanc(1979), Le Grand Nebuleux-Les pirates du cortex(1978) & Plat du Jour-s/t(1977)  are good examples of Progressive Fusion just from 70's France. Sometimes playing straight jazz fusion and sometimes opting for total chaos. Embarrassed
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 19:29
Wait, I've got it!  Let's call it Fuzz. Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 08:39
Originally posted by splyu splyu wrote:


jazz fusion = rock + jazz

 
Minor correction I might suggest: 'jazz fusion' is jazz fused with any other form or forms of music, e.g. rock, serious/classical, Indian/raga/Quawesi, Japanese, Arabic etc.  First use of the term was probably with Joe Harriott/John Mayer's Double Quintet's Indo Jazz Fusion album in 1966
Indo-Jazz%20Fusions%20I%20&%20II
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 08:34
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:



Have it, very Zappa/Holdsworth influenced. SIC he really does his own thing. Improvision  is currently on a UPS truck somewhere on its way to me. Clap
 
No argument wrt Holdsworth/zappa - a number of reviewers stated the album smacked of the Ruth Underwood period Mothers fronted by Holdsworth (including me), which propelled Alex into avoiding the Holdsworthian stuff on subsequent recordings (unlike a number of other Holdsworthian guitarists I could mention). It inevitably with the two albums done with Terry Bozzio (Delete & Roll and [sic]) that he hasn't completely escaped the dense Zappareque polyrhythms. Improvisation was one of my favourites last year - I believe Abstract Logix may have follow up,  although in the meanwhile they have issued a live recording of Alex (as MP3s) recently and recorded earlier this year
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
splyu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 06 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 316 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 03:49
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


Let me try to rephrase Iván's question:

"Is all of Jazz-Fusion Prog?"

I don't think so. Imagine that the prog metal team would say: All technical Thrash/Death metal is prog.

Personally, I would agree with both of those statements! Obviously - and this can be observed time and again on this board - everybody has their own idea of what constitutes prog. However, let's look at it this, admittedly simplified, way:

symphonic prog = rock + classical
jazz fusion = rock + jazz

How, then, is one more prog than the other? Is jazz inherently less prog than classical? I'd think both are vitally important influences to prog rock.
Back to Top
Tapfret View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8592 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 02:37
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:



On the subject of wicked Jazz guitarists, what does everybody think of Alex Machacek? And why has he not been added to the site?



Proposed him up quite some time ago but these things take time and volunteers. Check out  his Austrian band McHacek (different spelling) Featuring Ourselves released 98 or 99


Have it, very Zappa/Holdsworth influenced. SIC he really does his own thing. Improvision  is currently on a UPS truck somewhere on its way to me. Clap

Bandcamp
Back to Top
timothy leary View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 01:22
Zeppelin were not jazzy?? Listen to the bootlegs! Too late to go to the concert. No quarter
Back to Top
BroSpence View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 05 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 22:50
That Allman boy was quite an improviser. Boy howdy.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65345 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:43
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:



I'm confused - jazz in Zep?  where?  to me it's blues, blues, and more blues.


it's hard to hear on the studio LPs but as a long time collector of Zep, erm, 'private releases', I can assure you many of their live extended jams, particularly Bonham's approach to soloing, is straight from the modern jazz of the 1950s and 60s     ..it's only evident if you've heard a lot of Peterson, Tyner, Coltrane, etc.,   ..and remember Page and Jones were seasoned studio vets versed in standard Jazz technique by the time Zep formed (first as 'the New Yardbirds' then jokingly 'the Knobs' for a brief time) though it's true they primarily played blues






Edited by Atavachron - September 08 2008 at 17:46
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:26
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Led Zeppelin........fusion of blues and jazz
 
This is confused.


I'm confused - jazz in Zep?  where?  to me it's blues, blues, and more blues.
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:22
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:



On the subject of wicked Jazz guitarists, what does everybody think of Alex Machacek? And why has he not been added to the site?



Proposed him up quite some time ago but these things take time and volunteers. Check out  his Austrian band McHacek (different spelling) Featuring Ourselves released 98 or 99
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Tapfret View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8592 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 12:33
I like Scott Henderson, but even his improv runs dangerously close to "Adult Contemporary". For my money, Holdsworth has more to offer with his improvs and veers away from sounding mainstream. It was one of the primary reasons he only lasted in UK for 1 album.


On the subject of wicked Jazz guitarists, what does everybody think of Alex Machacek? And why has he not been added to the site?

BTW Easy Money, I love the term "Fuzak". I always wondered what to call it when I mention fusion and somebody responds with, "Oh, you mean like 4 Play and Kenny Gee and Tom Scott?"


Edited by Tapfret - September 08 2008 at 12:40

Bandcamp
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 11:55
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Led Zeppelin........fusion of blues and jazz
 
This is confused.
Jazz has always been considered as an off shoot from blues!
 
Also note: the British Godfathers of blues, Cecil Davis and Alexis Korner had done blues with a strong basis of jazz playing, as Blues Incorporated in the early 60's, as indeed Graham Bond (and his  Organisation) were doing this around the same time  (and some time member of Organisation, John McLaughlin was in demand as much as Jimmy Page as a session guitarist - you can imagine them meeting talking......). Then John Mayall shifted from his British blues period of mid to the end of the 60's to "blues without bashing" of the early 70's when he shifted his base to the USA, again re-emphasising the jazz elements of blues.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2008 at 01:31
it's true, there must be a decent level of improvisation for a band to be a real jazz-rock band. the example of LTE is good in that they are prog fusion (but they do have some jazz moments here and there, and they do improvise) but the music really is just heavy prog fusion DT style
My Last.fm
Back to Top
timesignature View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 52 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 16:02

i agree
Back to Top
mr70s View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 21 2008
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 121 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 05:37
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia

^ it's great, just not compared to what Scott Henderson is capable of.Embarrassed


I agree too.

Indeed, I have yet to hear an improvisation by Petrucci that could surpass anything Shawn Lane for eg, could do.
 
You might have a long wait......LOL
Back to Top
Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2008 at 04:59
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ it's great, just not compared to what Scott Henderson is capable of.Embarrassed


I agree too.

Indeed, I have yet to hear an improvisation by Petrucci that could surpass anything Shawn Lane for eg, could do.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.129 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.