Nice, another chance to debate with my friend Sean

1. >>> again: I have been familiar with Adult Oriented Radio/Rock since 75 and I haven't invented it. Weall know there are plenty of reviosionist in all kinds of histories, including music. Thre are plenty of people who will write history book saying invading Irak was a good thing, while you'll find  hundreds saying it was a mistake..... and both will cite facts and purposely forgetting what doesn't fit their theories or what doesn't suit their preference

Yes Sean, but even in the universities and Broadcasting schools AOR means Album Oriented Radio or Album Oriented Rock, I know it, I worked in an AOR radio and we passed from Boston to Emerson Lake & Palmer, I was allowed to make a special about Triumvirat, our advertising format of 5 minutes every 20 minutes (variable) allowed us to perform a complete side of an album. 

1. . >>> How do you explain that I've never heard of it???? (although I might have before but it never struck me as anything else than another name for Adult Oriented Rock)

It means you are not informed about it, that's the only thing that could mean, and I'll prove you it's completely accepted:

• 1.-   Hot Adult Contemporary Tracks   http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Hot+Adult+Contemporary+Tracks

   

  • 2.- 37 Brits 2001 Hits: Brit Awards 2001 Artist: Various Artists Release Date: Feb 20, 2001 Label: Sony International Genre: Pop Styles: Alternative Pop/Rock, Rap & Hip-Hop, Rock, Soul and R&B, Dance, Electronica, Adult Alternative Pop/Rock, Alternative, Club/Dance, Dance Pop, Techno, Adult Contemporary, Urban, Classic/Old School Hip-Hop, Contemporary R& B

  • 3.- 2005 Music Video Production Association Award: Adult Contemporary Video of the Year: Walk Tall http://blogs.heraldtimesonline.com/mb/?p=90

    Sean, the Billboard Magazine, the Britt Awards and the Music Video Association  consider ADULT CONTEMPORARY  as a category, if you didn't heard the term it only means you're uninformed.  

    BTW: The Language of Music - Dictionary and Research Guide defines AOR:
     

    Album-oriented rock Album-oriented rock, abbreviated AOR and originally called Album-oriented radio, was originally an American FM radio format focusing on album tracks by rock artists. http://www.123exp-music.com/t/00334369386/

     
    Please answer  a question: How can AOR be Adult Oriented Musicif the moist representative bands of AOR were STYX and BOSTON?: >>> says who???? I told you in my previous posts which were the most AOR-typed groups (Foreigner, Journey, SD, late Doobies,
     
    That could be debated Sean, but the list of AOR bands is clearly detailled:
     

    Album-oriented rock (sometimes referred to as adult-oriented rock), abbreviated AOR and originally called album-oriented radio, was originally an American FM radio format focusing on album tracks by rock artists. This format developed and popularized the repertoire of music currently associated with classic rock.   David Bowie Styx Jimmy Buffett Boston Eric Clapton Joe Cocker Crosby, Stills & Nash (and Young) Donnie Iris The Doobie Brothers Eagles Electric Light Orchestra Fleetwood Mac John Fogerty Foreigner Peter Frampton J. Geils Band The Guess Who Heart Don Henley The Hollies Billy Joel Elton John Huey Lewis and the News Dave Mason The Moody Blues Van Morrison Stevie Nicks Robert Palmer Alan Parsons Project Blue Oyster Cult Procol Harum Todd Rundgren Bob Seger Paul Simon Bruce Springsteen Billy Squier Ringo Starr Steely Dan Rod Stewart Toto Uriah Heep Joe Walsh War Steve Winwood Warren Zevon The Zombies   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock

     

    ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK (RADIO)/AOR   Top Artists and Their Recordings Aerosmith—Aerosmith (1973); Get Your Wings (1974); Toys in the Attic (1975); Rocks (1976) Artful Dodger--Artful Dodger (1975; Honor Among Thieves (1976); Babes on Broadway (1977) Asia--Asia (1982) Bachman-Turner Overdrive--Bachman-Turner Overdrive (1973); Bachman-Turner Overdrive II (1974); Not Fragile (1974); Four Wheel Drive (1975); Head On (1976); Freeways (1977); Street Action (1978); Rock N' Roll Nights (1979) Bad Company--Bad Company (1974); Straight Shooter (1975); Rub With the Pack (1976); Burning Sky (1977); Desolation Angels (1979) Pat Benatar--In the Heat of the Night (1979); Crimes of Passion (1980); Precious Time (1981); Get Nervous (1982); Live From Earth (1983); Tropico (1984) Boston--Boston (1976); Don't Look Back (1978); Third Stage (1986) Bon Jovi--Bon Jovi (1984); 7800 Fahrenheit (1985); Slippery When Wet (1986); New Jersey (1988); Blaze of Glory (1990); Keep the Faith (1992) Rocky Burnette--The Son of Rock and Roll (1980) Rick Derringer--All American Boy (1973); Spring Fever (1975); Derringer (1976); Sweet Evil (1977); Derringer Live (1977) The Doobie Brothers--Toulouse Street (1972); The Captain and Me (1973); What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits (1974); Stampede (1975); Livin' on the Fault Line (1977); Minute By Minute (1978); One Step Closer (1980) Foreigner--Foreigner (1977); Double Vision (1978); Head Games (1979); 4 (1981); Agent Provocateur (1985); Inside Information (1987) Heart--Dreamboat Annie (1976); Little Queen (1977); Magazine (1978); Dog and Butterfly (1978); Bebe Le Strange (1980); Private Audition (1982); Passionworks (1983); Heart (1985); Bad Animals (1987); Brigade (1990) The Jefferson Starship--Dragon Fly (1974); Red Octopus (1975); Spitfire (1976); Earth (1978); Freedom at Point Zero (1979); Modern Times (1981); Winds of Change (1982); Nuclear Furniture (1984) Joan Jett and the Blackhearts--Bad Reputation (1981); I Love Rock-n-Roll (1981); Album (1983); Glorious Results of a Misspent Youth (1984); Good Music (1986); Up Your Alley (1988); The Hit List (1990) Journey--Journey (1975); Look Into the Future (1976); Next (1977); Infinity (1978); Evolution (1979); Departure (1980); Captured (1981); Escape (1981); Frontiers (1983); Raised On Radio (1986) Greg Kihn Band--Next of Kihn (1976); With the Naked Eye (1979); Glass House Rock (1980); Rockihnroll (1981); Kihntinued (1982); Kihnspiracy (1983); Kihntagious (1984); Citizen Kihn (1985) Meat Loaf--Bat Out of Hell (1977); Dead Ringer (1981); Bad Attitude (1985) John Cougar Mellencamp--John Cougar (1979); Nothin; Matters and What If It Did (1980); American Fool (1982); Uh-Huh (1982); Scarecrow (1985); The Lonesome Jubilee (1987); Big Daddy (1989); Whenever We Wanted (1991) Eddie Money--Eddie Money (1978); Life For the Taking (1979); Playing For Keeps (1980); No Control (1982); Where's the Party? (1983); Can't Hold Back (1986); Nothing to Lose (1988); Right Here (1992) Orleans--Let There Be Music (1975); Waking and Dreaming (1976); Forever (1979) The Outfield--Play Deep (1985); Bangin' (1987); Voices of Babylon (1989); Diamond Days (1990) Pablo Cruise--Pablo Cruise (1975); Lifeline (1976); A Place in the Sun (1977); Worlds Away (1978); Part of the Game (1979); Reflector (1981) Tom Petty (and the Heartbreakers)--Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers (1977); You're Gonna Get It! (1978); Damn the Torpedoes (1979); Hard Promises (1991); Long After Dark (1982); Southern Accents (1985); Pack Up the Plantation - Live! (1985); Let Me Up (I've Had Enough) 1987); Full Moon Fever (1889); Into the Great Wide Open (1991) The Power Station--The Power Station (1985) Quarterflash--Quarterflash (1981); Take Another Picture (1983); Back Into Blue (1985) REO Speedwagon--Ridin' the Storm Out (1974); Lost in a Dream (1974); This Time We Mean It(1975); R.E.O. (1976); REO Speedwagon Live/You Get What You Pay For (1977); You Can Tune a Piano, But You Can't Tuna Fish (1978); Nine Lives (1979); Hi Infidelity (1980); Good Trouble (1982); Wheels Are Turnin' (1984); Life As We Know It (1987) Bob Seger (and the Silver Bullet Band)--Smokin' O.P.'s (1972); Back in '72 (1973); Beautiful Loser (1975); "Live" Bullet (1976); Night Moves (1976); Stranger in Town (1978); Against the Wind (1980); Nine Tonight (1981); The Distance (1983); Like a Rock (1986); The Fire Inside (1991) Sniff 'n' the Tears—Fickle Heart (1979); Love Action (1981) Bruce Springsteen (and the E Street Band)--Greeting From Asbury Park, N.J. (1973); The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle (1973); Born to Run (1975); Darkness on the Edge of Town (1978); The River (1980); Nebraska (1982); Born in the U.S.A. (1984); Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Live/1975-85 (1986); Tunnel of Love (1987); Human Touch (1992); Lucky Town (1992) Billy Squier--The Tale of the Tape (1980); Don't Say No (1981); Emotions in Motion (1982); Signs of Life (1984); Enough Is Enough (1986); Hear and Now (1989); Creatures of Habit (1991) Styx--Styx I (1972); Styx II (1973); The Serpent Is Rising (1974); Man of Miracles (1974); Equinox (1975); Crystal Ball (1976); The Grand Illusion (1977); Pieces of Eight (1978); Cornerstone (1979); Paradise Theater (1981); Kilroy Was Here (1983); Caught in the Act - Live (1984); Edge of the Century (1990) Survivor--Survivor (1980); Premonition (1981); Eye of the Tiger (1982); Caught in the Game (1983); Vital Signs (1984); When Seconds Count (1986); Too Hot to Sleep (1988) Tommy Tutone--Tommy Tutone (1980); Tommy Tutone - 2 (1982); National Emotion (1983) Toto--Toto (1978); Hydra (1979); Turn Back (1981); Toto IV (1982); Isolation (1984); Dune (1984); Fahrenheit (1986); The Seventh One (1988 http://www.shsu.edu/~lis_fwh/book/hybrid_children_of_rock/AOR2.htm

     
    All are mentioned Sean, but all clearly tipified as ALBUM Oriented Rock and all were massive among kids in their day. 
     
    1. STYX (The Grand Illusion) was N°6 in 1977 as album but also:had this top 10 hits:
       1. Come Sail Away reached N° 8 in the Billboard
       2. Fooling Yourself reached N° 29
       3. In Canada, Miss America was also a hit (maybe not a single), but the whole album got airplay
    2. STYX Pieces of Eight reached N° 6 in 1978, but also the hit singles
       1. Renegade N° 16
       2. Sing For a Day N° 40
       3. Blue Collar Man  & Queen of Spades were also hits and the whole album got airplay
    3. STYX Cornerstone reached N°2 in 1979, but also the hit singles:
       1. Babe reached N° 1
       2. Boat on A River was also a hit (maybe not a single), but this time most of the rest of the album got ignored
    4. STYX Paradise Theater reached N°1 in 1981, but aslo the hit singlñes:
       1. The Best of Times: N° 3 POP SINGLES Billboard
       2. Too Much Time on My Hands: N° 9 POP Billboarf Single
       3. Rockin the Paradise N° 8 POP Billboard soingles
       4. the radios ignored the rest of the albums
    5. Boston self titled album was N° 3 of Billboard in 1976, but also the hit singles:
       1. More than a Feeling: N° 5 in Billboard Pop singles
       2. Piece of Mind: N° 38 in the Billboard Pop singles
       3. The rest of the album got major airplay, most kids of then are familiar with the huge majority of the songs even if they didn't buy the album >>>Foreplay / Long Time, Rock & Roll Band, Smokin', let me take you home tonight
          
    6. Boston Don't Look Back was N° 1 album of Billboard

    7. 1.Don't Look Back was Pop hit single N° 4 on Billboard

       1. A Man I'll Never Be: Reached N° 31 on Pop hits in 1979
       2. the radios mostly ignored the rest of the album

    Sean...Don't you see my point? A format directed to one segment can't reach N° 1 in Billboard, much less when the adults that listen Rock are not the majority, we know that kids under 18 are the vast majority,. more on those days than today

    So this bands were not Adult oriented, Adults don't make the charts, kids make the charts, this bands were massive, no relation with Adult oriented music, it was oriented towards everybody. >>> Radios make the charts, by pounding souns in your brains and brainwashing you over with repeated listens.... then everyone goes and buy what they heard.

    Yes Seann we know that, but the ones who's votes really count, the ones who call the radios to give their votes, the ones who buy 80% of the albums, are the teens, not the adults who have many other priorities.
     
    We are "Rara Avis" that care for music as much as we do with our age, but you must have heard this phrase a lot of times "Hey act your age and forget that stupíf music", at least I have heard it 100  times.
     
    What your point miss is the regional disparities
     
    The Chum (AM) people was adult and the CHUM FM was for kids, but the sales were combined into one chart, which THEY compiled (these charts changed from stations to stations, they didn't care about the Billboards, which was relevant to the recording industry establishment in the offices)...... CHUM FM (104.1) and CILQ (107.1 or Q107) had "similar" (the chart placements  were not the same) charts because direct competition while Chum AM had different charts.... Which where completely different from radio stations in Calgary (with lots more country rock domination) and even with CHOM in Montreal (which integrated Quebec rock as well). Hell I'm not even sure some radios askled records stores for sales while making their charts.
     
    Sean, this has no relation with the issue, the charts are made by BILLBOARD who only takes SALES in consideration, and remember, in the 70's almost 90% of the Rock audience was teens
     
     
    Pure reviosionism >>> I also told to be careful quoting Wikipedia >>> they don't verify enough the contributor's source, unless someone bothers to make a correction.......
     
    Sean, you don't trust Wikipedia, so I quoted you Billboard, Britt Awards and the Musical Video Producers Association...Do you belñieve now it's not revisionism or mistakes of Wikipedia?
     
    Again, while this list contains as much MOR than AOR artistes and some should never be in this category (thinking of Pink and Spice girls that caters to young girls). We're back at Wiki's credibility here....... If you remember not too long ago this list included Zep and Purple, and it was you that made them take it away
     
    Check the lists I provided above, the names are almost the same.
     
     Ivàn, over 95% of the US and North American that have heard the acronym AOR  think of Adult Oriented Rock......  Whether they are right semantically or not , we'll probably never agree, and if you want to take this crusade where you'll fight most everyone >> you might even win this fight , but the fact is that the generalpublic will still discuss AOR as Adult and not Album......      But stating that AOR never meant Adult Oriented Rock/Radio is simply wrong..... as said above 95% of North Americans think it the way I do..
     
    Sean, the truth is that the term AOR means ALBUM Oriebnted Radio Roick, the fact tghat some people missused the term for Adult, is only a generalized mistake, doesn't make it valid.
     
    So I would stress that MOR and AC might mean the same thing, but both take  the "rock"' label out, while groups like Journey , Kansas and Boston are clearly " rock" >> in the sense that Adult Oriented Rock is.
     
    The term Rock is understood, but AC and MOR take it to ave a wider umbrella for different genres of Popular music.
     
    So if you want to include them under the AC umbrella, be my gues!!!!!  I couldn't care less, really
     
    You care enough to debate
     
    Iván
     
     

Sean Trane wrote:     Album Oriented Radio >>> existed >> tranformed into Adult Oriented Radio by the mid-70's Agree, mid/late 70's Album Oriented Rock >>> existed >> was rouighly early 70's prog >>> but only seldomly used since most groups either died or gave in.to the demands  ...Agree, ut it was mostly known as FM Adult Oriented Radio >>> existed >> this applied to both FM and AM radios in the later 70's Wrong, you are talking about ADULT CONTEMPORARY RADIOS OR AC RADIOS  >>> Sorry I never heard this name used >> it's the first time I hear of it presented this way Adult Oriented Rock >>> existed >> a creation of radios wxanting more commercial and formated radio-friendly rock songs Wrong, you are talking about ADULT CONTEMPORARY MUSIC OR AC MUSIC >>> Sorry I never heard this name used >> it's the first time I hear of it presented this way

1. AOR: Is clearñy defined in every piece of musical literature, broadcasting manual or Internet Rock site as ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK OR ALBUM PRIENTED RADIO, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. What we define as AOR in the late 70's is a variety of Album Oriented Music that evolved from the early 70's AOR (That was mainly Prog), taking all the Prog elements but keeping the same ALBUM format,. the problem is that Prog already had an own denomination and this music had no name, sop people started calñling AOR, exclusively to that music and blended abnother term. >>> again: I have been familiar with Adult Oriented Radio/Rock since 75 and I haven't invented it. Weall know there are plenty of reviosionist in all kinds of histories, including music. Thre are plenty of people who will write history book saying invading Irak was a good thing, while you'll find  hundreds saying it was a mistake..... and both will cite facts and purposely forgetting what doesn't fit their theories or what doesn't suit their preference
2. AC: Adult Contemporary, it's more or less the music of the past generation, in other words Rock Music without the lates fashion, AQC radios of today play everything except Rap and Hip Hop. >>> How do you explain that I've never heard of it???? (although I might have before but it never struck me as anything else than another name for Adult Oriented Rock)

Please abnswer  a question: How can AOR be Adult Oriented Musicif the moist representative bands of AOR were STYX and BOSTON?: >>> says who???? I told you in my previous posts which were the most AOR-typed groups (Foreigner, Journey, SD, late Doobies,

1. STYX (The Grand Illusion) was N°6 in 1977 as album but also:had this top 10 hits:
   1. Come Sail Away reached N° 8 in the Billboard
   2. Fooling Yourself reached N° 29
   3. In Canada, Miss America was also a hit (maybe not a single), but the whole album got airplay
2. STYX Pieces of Eight reached N° 6 in 1978, but also the hit singles
   1. Renegade N° 16
   2. Sing For a Day N° 40
   3. Blue Collar Man  & Queen of Spades were also hits and the whole album got airplay
3. STYX Cornerstone reached N°2 in 1979, but also the hit singles:
   1. Babe reached N° 1
   2. Boat on A River was also a hit (maybe not a single), but this time most of the rest of the album got ignored
4. STYX Paradise Theater reached N°1 in 1981, but aslo the hit singlñes:
   1. The Best of Times: N° 3 POP SINGLES Billboard
   2. Too Much Time on My Hands: N° 9 POP Billboarf Single
   3. Rockin the Paradise N° 8 POP Billboard soingles
   4. the radios ignored the rest of the albums
5. Boston self titled album was N° 3 of Billboard in 1976, but also the hit singles:
   1. More than a Feeling: N° 5 in Billboard Pop singles
   2. Piece of Mind: N° 38 in the Billboard Pop singles
   3. The rest of the album got major airplay, most kids of then are familiar with the huge majority of the songs even if they didn't buy the album >>>Foreplay / Long Time, Rock & Roll Band, Smokin', let me take you home tonight
      
6. Boston Don't Look Back was N° 1 album of Billboard

7. 1.Don't Look Back was Pop hit single N° 4 on Billboard

   1. A Man I'll Never Be: Reached N° 31 on Pop hits in 1979
   2. the radios mostly ignored the rest of the album

So this bands were not Adult oriented, Adults don't make the charts, kids make the charts, this bands were massive, no relation with Adult oriented music, it was oriented towards everybody. >>> Radios make the charts, by pounding souns in your brains and brainwashing you over with repeated listens.... then everyone goes and buy what they heard.

Adult contemporary music, frequently abbreviated AC, is a type of radio format that plays mainstream contemporary popular music, excluding hip hop, hard rock, some teen pop music and rhythmic dance tracks (though during the 2000s, these have been included), which is intended for a mature adult audience. Radio stations playing this format will often target 16-54 year-olds, the group most valued by advertisers. AC is generally divided into 4 groups; "Hot AC," also known as "Adult Top 40," "Soft AC," also known as CLite," "Urban AC," "Religious AC." Some radio stations play only Hot AC; some play only Soft AC, and some play both. Thus it is not usually considered a specific genre of music, since it is merely an assembly of selected tracks of musicians of many different genres.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music

Some core soft adult contemporary artists This list includes the most played artists in the United States, starting with the most played, in the soft Adult Contemporary format from January 2007 through December 2007 Elton John Rod Stewart Kelly Clarkson Doobie Brothers Eagles Billy Joel Rob Thomas/Matchbox Twenty Fleetwood Mac Phil Collins Madonna Bryan Adams Chicago Sheryl Crow John Mellencamp Faith Hill Mariah Carey Spice Girls Celine Dion Eric Clapton Commodores Bee Gees The Police Cher Daniel Powter Bob Seger Bruce Springsteen Josh Groban Stevie Wonder Brian McKnight Jewel P!nk Delta Goodrem Christina Aguilera  Light Blue >>> not AOR AC or MOR (shoul be taken out of the list)  Pink: MOR (not "rock" music per se) Dark Blue : AOR (rock music)     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music

So if you want to include them under the AC umbrella, be my gues!!!!!  I couldn't care less, really