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jme
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Joined: April 09 2008
Location: franklin, nc
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Points: 56
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Topic: Theism v. Atheism in Prog Posted: June 23 2008 at 12:24 |
i never really knew the meaning behind the song "aqualung". i do know, on the back album cover, (or inner sleeve or somewhere), there was this blaspmemous "in the beginning, man created god..." proclimation. it has been awhile since i looked at the album though, this was an original, vinyl too.
christian prog? vertical alignment is kinda cool. they are older guys from south carolina. it reminds me of early YES or some other "roots-prog" music. very good musicianship for sure!
there was a band called synaxis that was from raleigh. the guitarist even had taurus pedals! ;-)
i dont know...i am a christian, and i LOVE music. i dont care to hear things that bash god, but i am pretty open when it comes to music. i dont trust the ccm community to produce music for me to listen to. my creativity will die.
"i'm Bertrand Russell. i'm a little teapot orbiting the earth. here is my DOH!
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"gravity: it's what's for dinner!"
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MikeDupont
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Joined: December 26 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 63
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Posted: June 19 2008 at 16:21 |
"Yes, but as Bertrand Russell famously said, we should be agnostic in the same sense we should allow for the possibility of a teapot orbiting the earth. Possible, indeed, but terribly unlikely."
Well put....but as for the teapot, and I know most people are goin to disagree/hate me on this one....I can't see any religion thats more "likely", in a probability sense, to be more REALISTIC than a teapot orbiting around the earth. While that sounds crazy....why should we than say that other non-logical things like turning water into wine....or walking on water...or whatever this "magical" phenominon is, is more likely to be real than say a teapot orbiting the earth or whatever. The point is non-logical is non-logical, there isn't a more "likely" probabity that once exhist or not.....because they are for all scientists know now, completely uncomprehensible.
Edited by MikeDupont - June 19 2008 at 16:22
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Alberto Muńoz
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Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
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Points: 3577
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Posted: June 19 2008 at 12:42 |
Hello i will put my two cents, but for example Spooky Thooth Ceremony is a mass, but many so called christians called a heresie. but the music (without the horrible sounds of Mr. Henry) is very very good.
cheers
Alberto ![Smile](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif)
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008
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Points: 424
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Posted: June 19 2008 at 08:33 |
MikeDupont wrote:
I wish in your topic post you mentioned Agnostic. People think they either have to have a religion or not believe anything at all. If your skeptical, but think the possibility of a god or something is possible....dont force yourself to choose between Religion/Athiesm, just be Agnostic.....we shouldn't have to understand everything in the world............let time tell you, don't force yourslef upon a decision...
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Yes, but as Bertrand Russell famously said, we should be agnostic in the same sense we should allow for the possibility of a teapot orbiting the earth. Possible, indeed, but terribly unlikely.
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MikeDupont
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Joined: December 26 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 63
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Posted: June 19 2008 at 02:18 |
I wish in your topic post you mentioned Agnostic. People think they either have to have a religion or not believe anything at all. If your skeptical, but think the possibility of a god or something is possible....dont force yourself to choose between Religion/Athiesm, just be Agnostic.....we shouldn't have to understand everything in the world............let time tell you, don't force yourslef upon a decision... now with that being said, I will try to focus on the question at hand. I do like music that touches on spiritual topics....however......I'm not all fond of music that just preaches about religion and try's to convince people to join it....I guess thats why you have a RITE not to buy the album if you dont want to....but on a true level, I believe all spiritual beliefs should be found within one's self, and a person should never let another one simply talk them into a belief.....as in the word's of Monty Python, or something like this......."You have to make your own decisions, dont let others make them for you, otherwise your just a bloody no-gooder" :D
The music I do like that simply touches on spirituality, without really preaching it......are people like: Peter Hammil, (Godbluff, Still Life) Jon Anderson, (He's just a Happy Crazy Man XD) Ian Anderson (talks about how religion, while it may support great things like peace, has still been the cause of lots and lots of pain and death)
I can't think of others at the moment...but they do exhist XD
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agProgger
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Joined: November 20 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 54
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 21:22 |
I'm a pain...
...of Salvation fan!
/slap self /slap self /slap self
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Friend of the honest; enemy of the arrogant and closed-minded.
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fighting sleep
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Joined: September 04 2007
Location: U.S.A
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Points: 155
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Posted: June 15 2008 at 20:29 |
PinkPangolin wrote:
I'm sorry - that must have sounded so so cheesy (apologies - no offence meant)
I did get it - it's just that the second post kind of arrived while I was writing mine.
D'oh !![Confused](smileys/smiley5.gif)
It's not fair - I couldn't follow mine up with a second post saying ....Fan! (I don't think there's a band called Christian - at least I've not heard of them if there is)
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You should've put: I'm a Christian
....Vander fan!!!
and followed up with the cover of Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh
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Prospero
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Joined: June 06 2008
Location: Quebec
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Points: 91
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Posted: June 15 2008 at 14:03 |
Cthulu wrote:
Here are a couple of good Christian Prog bands: IONA, KERRY LIVGREN'S solo stuff and also with his band A.D. |
King's X. When I listen to Faith, Love, Hope, which actually is a great album IMO, I feel as if Jesus was the songwriter.
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PinkPangolin
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Joined: May 26 2006
Location: Somerset (UK)
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Points: 213
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Posted: June 14 2008 at 11:31 |
yeh - that would be a good idea - then I would know which ones to get/ try - a bit like my son's friends who deliberately look out and buy those CD's with Offensive language stickers on!
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BrianB
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Joined: May 31 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 189
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Posted: June 14 2008 at 10:23 |
As a devout, practicing atheist, "I don't go to church, regularly" to paraphrase Terry Jones, I reckon all theist albums should have a warning sticker like the hip-hop stuff has, only warning about religeous content instead of offensive language.
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Cthulu
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Joined: February 29 2008
Location: USA
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Points: 37
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Posted: June 14 2008 at 07:25 |
Here are a couple of good Christian Prog bands: IONA, KERRY LIVGREN'S solo stuff and also with his band A.D.
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"The Box. You opened it. We came."
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PinkPangolin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2006
Location: Somerset (UK)
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Points: 213
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Posted: June 14 2008 at 02:53 |
I'm sorry - I agree with you all - I really don't mind if you are an atheist or whatever your beliefs are. My Dad's an atheist and I'm really fond of him
I just missed the joke, and I feel a complete doughnut for doing so - it was a good joke, and I apologise.
Going back to the topic in question (he says rapidly trying to change the subject!), I'm not perturbed by Prog music lyrics unless they get nasty, but to be honest I've very very rarely heard any "nasty" lyrics in Prog.
I've never actually heard any Christian Prog - not in 25 years - anyone know if there is any that's good? - especially some that has a Pink Floyd sort of sound.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: June 14 2008 at 01:52 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
agProgger wrote:
He's not actually an atheist (or at least he didn't seem to be) -- the point was the delayed "...fan!" part =)
/explain_joke off
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And if he was, good for him. Nothing wrong with that.
![Shocked](smileys/smiley3.gif)
![](http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/basic/unsure.gif)
![](http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/dance017.gif)
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Yes... what's to "cover"?
I'm an atheist. And I can enjoy glorious religious Bach music, or even Neal Morse music (don't ask me to enjoy Torman Maxt though)... as well as I can enjoy black metal straight from the pits of hell... and any music in between.....
So if he was an atheist, I also don't see the need to quickly point out it was just a joke...
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StyLaZyn
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Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 4079
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Posted: June 13 2008 at 23:36 |
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PinkPangolin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2006
Location: Somerset (UK)
Status: Offline
Points: 213
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Posted: June 13 2008 at 20:06 |
I'm sorry - that must have sounded so so cheesy (apologies - no offence meant) I did get it - it's just that the second post kind of arrived while I was writing mine. D'oh ! ![Confused](smileys/smiley5.gif) It's not fair - I couldn't follow mine up with a second post saying ....Fan! (I don't think there's a band called Christian - at least I've not heard of them if there is)
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agProgger
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Joined: November 20 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 54
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Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:46 |
He's not actually an atheist (or at least he didn't seem to be) -- the point was the delayed "...fan!" part =)
/explain_joke off
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Friend of the honest; enemy of the arrogant and closed-minded.
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PinkPangolin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2006
Location: Somerset (UK)
Status: Offline
Points: 213
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Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:32 |
I'm a christian (thought that might sound good after the last post above from explodingjosh!)
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explodingjosh
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Joined: February 10 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 507
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Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:26 |
......fan!
Edited by explodingjosh - June 14 2008 at 15:43
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explodingjosh
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Joined: February 10 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 507
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Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:25 |
I'm an athiest
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424
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Posted: June 12 2008 at 23:26 |
agProgger wrote:
WinterLight wrote:
KeleCableII wrote:
WinterLight wrote:
Approaching evolution from a non-religious perspective, one also encounters a lot of hypocrisy: there are those on the "pro-evolution" (since when has science become a political matter?) side of the debate refuse to acknowledge any flaws in the current model. This attitude, while psychologically understandable, is actually in opposition to the scientific outlook. To be honest, I find any dogma, even when I agree with its underlying principles, distasteful as it is a hindrance to intellectual and personal growth.
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I know this is way off-topic but I felt the need to point this out because I feel it's a widespread belief. Most arguments presented by people criticizing evolution are usually based off some kind of misconception or misunderstanding of the theory itself. Any scientist would tell you what areas of the theory we are not quite clear on yet, and they would most likely not match up with what an anti-evolutionist (mistakenly) sees as a problem.
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Yes, in the scientific community, that's usually the response one will observe. And you're completely correct in that most "criticisms" targeting evolution are based on (usually severe) misconceptions. However, it's a different matter altogether in the popular discourse on evolution. (For clarity, I am not objecting in any way to evolution--although there are some problems with it--but I am only criticizing how some defend it.)
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By me posting this, we are both at 42 posts, which is a very special number indeed. We should never speak again, so as to maintain perfection forever.
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But we must progress. Time for a tempo change, perhaps?
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