Fripp on Guitar Technicalities

Sweep picking may also result in similar sounds.  To be honest, sweeps sound like bubbles to me (extremely satisfying bubbles at that).  I can't think of a better word to describe them.

Bargh, I used to love shredding. Now I don't really care for it at all.

HughesJB4 wrote: kibble_alex wrote: Unsouled wrote: I've already addressed a couple of these, but it seems like my earlier post has been lost in the mumbo-jumbo. "Talent" refers "natural abilities or qualities," and Fripp believes he has none of these when it comes to guitar playing.  However, "talented" has become synonymous with "skilled" and "accomplished," so my wording was a mistake. 1800iareyay: I did not say he needed to shred, I asked whether or not he could, for no reason other than curiosity. jammun: rileydog22 is correct, there is no shredding in those pieces.  The guitar lines are quick, though. Cosmic Messenger: A big sigh to you, because I've already acknowledged that I don't "want" to hear them per say, but rather I would like to know if anyone has seen him perform them. Avantgardehead's statement is exactly what I was trying, and failing, to say: "I think many people knew he had it in him, but it's always nice to see these things." Anyways, if someone still understand what I mean by shredding, here's an example: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pYauTCAbvh8 Wow. So you think that shredding = good guitar playing? Real guitar playing comes from the soul, it has feeling, and even if you did play a soulful solo at shredding speed, you couldn't distinguish it anyway, so what's the point? All shredding is is practising scales, arpeggios and melodic lines over and over again with a metronome: what musical skill does that involve? None at all if you ask me, it's not entertaining, it's self-indulgent. Fripp knows this, so he doesn't do it. This post is so contradictory amd misinformed it makes me laugh to be honest. Saying shredding is mindless and boring yet defending someone who clearly has been known to play shred solo is highly hypocritical.   "Real guitar playing comes from the soul, it has feeling, and even if you did play a soulful solo at shredding speed, you couldn't distinguish it anyway, so what's the point? All shredding is is practising scales, arpeggios and melodic lines over and over again with a metronome:what musical skill does that involve? None at all if you ask me, it's not entertaining, it's self-indulgent. Fripp knows this, so he doesn't do it."   That didn't make a lot of sense to be totally honest. Your definition of shredding is not even close to the ball park of the correct definition. What you described is running through technical exercises. Shredding means to play in a virtuosic manner on guitar, and has nothing to do with whether it's musical to you or not. "you couldn't distinguish it anyway" a typical example of someone who has minimal or zero musical ear training. I happen to find many shred solos to be widely varied and can hear the differences between what techniques are employed in the solo, and why certain phrases are played to give different emotions.   http://youtube.com/watch?v=6jBJUUogVyU http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Jit_KXxhX4 http://youtube.com/watch?v=G3gHtPLXQOI   Here are 3 different shred solos (well one is also mainly a song), and I challenge anyone to tell me these 3 solos A: Played using a variety of different techniques B Not even in the same modes and key signatures and styles can sound 'indistinguishable'. Ask MikeEnRegalia, or some of the other shred guitarist on this forum, and they will agree whole heartedly shred is a valid form of musical expression. If the world revolved around one person that could just univerally say 'all shred is the same etc, can't tell it apart etc no emotion etc', maybe we would have to accept it, but in future don't make it sound like people have this universal idea we must all believe, because I think I should be able to feel free to understand and believe in the emotive power of shred guitar.

And is that why shredders will be as well remembered in the future as lets say some melodic genii like Bach, Sibeilius, collectively Genesis and maybe even Peter Hamill w/ VDGG? Face it dude, the only people that appreciate shredding are guitarists, and that is because and only because they know it is astoundingly hard.

I have listened to your links, and quite frankly they do not portray any emotion for me, which is very typical of shredding. Why play 20 notes/second and impress people with how fast you can move your wrist and fingers, when you can play one note a second and induce any powerful emotion on people? This is what infuriates me about shredding guitarists: they absolutely love to show off their moves, but they are killing the real purpose of music, and that is to entertain people emotionally. Doesn't that anger you in any sort of way? I'd love to see someone break down in tears of joy at a shredding solo, because they sure as hell have done that with most other musical formats.

And before you even think about saying I contradicted myself with the comment "only because they know it is astoundingly hard" against the above "what musical skill does that involve? None at all if you ask me", take note of what I said: i said that shredding recquires no musical skill, and i still stand by that. however, it involves skill in other areas; that is to get it up to shredding speed. Perhaps composing a slowed down version of the shred needs as much musical skill as you proclaim, with cadential, harmonic and modal uses, but look at it this way: if any of Beethoven's Adagios were played at quadruple the tempo they are normally, do you honestly think that they would get the same reaction? I highly doubt it, because the human brain can only comprehend emotion at a certain speed, so don't give me that crap about me having an undeveloped musical ear, because if you can distinguish as much as a little emotion from shredding, then i will consider either one of two things 1. you have never actually experienced real musical vehemence or 2. you are superhuman.

I personally doubt the latter.


Edited by kibble_alex - May 05 2008 at 09:33

kibble_alex wrote: Unsouled wrote: I've already addressed a couple of these, but it seems like my earlier post has been lost in the mumbo-jumbo. "Talent" refers "natural abilities or qualities," and Fripp believes he has none of these when it comes to guitar playing.  However, "talented" has become synonymous with "skilled" and "accomplished," so my wording was a mistake. 1800iareyay: I did not say he needed to shred, I asked whether or not he could, for no reason other than curiosity. jammun: rileydog22 is correct, there is no shredding in those pieces.  The guitar lines are quick, though. Cosmic Messenger: A big sigh to you, because I've already acknowledged that I don't "want" to hear them per say, but rather I would like to know if anyone has seen him perform them. Avantgardehead's statement is exactly what I was trying, and failing, to say: "I think many people knew he had it in him, but it's always nice to see these things." Anyways, if someone still understand what I mean by shredding, here's an example: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pYauTCAbvh8 Wow. So you think that shredding = good guitar playing? Real guitar playing comes from the soul, it has feeling, and even if you did play a soulful solo at shredding speed, you couldn't distinguish it anyway, so what's the point? All shredding is is practising scales, arpeggios and melodic lines over and over again with a metronome: what musical skill does that involve? None at all if you ask me, it's not entertaining, it's self-indulgent. Fripp knows this, so he doesn't do it.

Edited by HughesJB4 - May 05 2008 at 03:17

"Talent" refers "natural abilities or qualities," and Fripp believes he has none of these when it comes to guitar playing.  However, "talented" has become synonymous with "skilled" and "accomplished," so my wording was a mistake.

Do i sound too serious? because i don't intend to. meh, i have more important things to worry about than this, i just felt like having a go because this guy called Fripp untalented.

Sigh.

No, I do not think that shredding = good guitar playing as the end all, be all.  Why does asking whether or not anyone has seen Bobby shred spark so much hostility?

I am not questioning his skill (musical or technical), or trying to downplay any of his accomplishments.  Let me quote myself:
"....I am, if anything, a complete Fripp/KCrimson nut.  Fripp's development and work with NST and soundscapes, guitar craft, simply what he does and how he does it, are astounding.  It appears I've led some to the misconception that if he can't shred, I don't recognize this."

I am simply wondering if he HAS, and I have very little doubt he is able to, given what he's done already.

How can I make this clearer?  Fripp has inspired me more than any other individual in music.  I am not judging him in any sort of way by asking if he can shred.  All I want to know is if anyone has seen him do it, and that question has already been answered in this thread.  At this point I feel like I have to defend myself because of misinterpretations (and my lack of clarity has obviously been a reason for them).  There is no criticism here, simply curiosity.

Edit: Edited the first post.


Edited by Unsouled - May 04 2008 at 15:58

Unsouled wrote: jammun: rileydog22 is correct, there is no shredding in those pieces.  The guitar lines are quick, though.

Why would you want to hear 20-note-per-second alternative picking lines, anyway? Go listen to Liquid Tension Experiment or Cacophony if that is what you want.

rileydog22 wrote: And re: the original post, I think the reason Fripp doesn't "shred," per se, is because he's opposed to it.  Shredding tends to be sterile, emotionless playing in which guitarists add more notes because, well, they can.  Fripp is far more interested in expression than technique.