Should Styx be considered as Prog?

lazpete wrote: Been reading forums on the net since the birth of yahoo, but this thread must be one of the most hillarious ones ever created! Oh goosh, fun has never been this direct and non subtle. Listen to the mainQ here" is this or that band this or that genre", Come on! What a debate! But, keep it commin, it is good fun!

  cheers, nice to see an outsider sharing the fun

^I agree with all you said, until I reached "Get over it.  No labels are necessary.", to which I disagree. They are there two distingusih between quite clearly defined genres, even though the lines between them sometimes get blurry. I think of it as a rough description, but still a viable description. We have reviews to express how we feel about a certain band, without bothering about the genres description.

Edited by LinusW - March 16 2008 at 08:13

lazpete wrote: Been reading forums on the net since the birth of yahoo, but this thread must be one of the most hillarious ones ever created! Oh goosh, fun has never been this direct and non subtle. Listen to the mainQ here" is this or that band this or that genre", Come on! What a debate! But, keep it commin, it is good fun!

darqdean wrote: Def Leppard were so impressed by Steinman that the hired him to produce Pyromania. Having wasted most of the advance having the studio carpets changed, someone finally told them that Todd Rundgren produce Bat out of Hell, not Steinman. The album was finally produced by Mutt Lange. However, Steinman did do a decent job on the Sisters of Mercy's Floodlands.

debrewguy wrote: darqdean wrote: Def Leppard were so impressed by Steinman that the hired him to produce Pyromania. Having wasted most of the advance having the studio carpets changed, someone finally told them that Todd Rundgren produce Bat out of Hell, not Steinman. The album was finally produced by Mutt Lange. However, Steinman did do a decent job on the Sisters of Mercy's Floodlands. I thought that Hysteria was the album where they tried working with Steinman. I have read some interesting quotes from both sides on that debacle. But in the end, Def Leppard did deliver the goods. The debate would be just how much Mutt Lange meant to them. Which still wouldn't mean a fig when listening to their albums.

Def Leppard were so impressed by Steinman that the hired him to produce Pyromania. Having wasted most of the advance having the studio carpets changed, someone finally told them that Todd Rundgren produce Bat out of Hell, not Steinman. The album was finally produced by Mutt Lange. However, Steinman did do a decent job on the Sisters of Mercy's Floodlands.

Edited by darqdean - September 28 2007 at 15:27

Dick Heath wrote: jimmy_row wrote: ^^well I've learned something more from the master....never knew Rundgren had anything to do with Meatloaf....and now that I've thought about it, before he acquired an almost infamous reputation, Meatloaf was writing very bombastic music with (as DB says) broadway semblences....I imagine he's been suggested for inclusion here a time or two (does he belong?  I dunno.....don't really care either, to me it's good, or at least not bad, music).   I thought Jim Steinman was responsible for the compositions - and remember Meatloaf's connection with the Rockie Horrow Show - which suddenly strikes as probably  the most successful (and popular) rock opera - which reinforces the reasons for  the theatrics.   I have a feeling the term 'stunt guitar ' may have been coined for Rundgren's guitarwork on the title track of Bat Out Of Hell, rather than Steve Vai's work under Zappa.

yes, correct about Steinman, I was under the impression that they both composed but Meatloaf was more of the performer; haven't seen Rockie Horror in it's entirety but I'll agree that it is one of the more succesful rock opera's and obviously very popular still today.  I'll have to check out more of the "stunt" guitar work you speak of, I was never aware that Rundgren was a particularly good musician...struck me as a 'songwriter' type (I've yet to get past Truestar and "Todd" in his catalogue").

jimmy_row wrote: ^^well I've learned something more from the master....never knew Rundgren had anything to do with Meatloaf....and now that I've thought about it, before he acquired an almost infamous reputation, Meatloaf was writing very bombastic music with (as DB says) broadway semblences....I imagine he's been suggested for inclusion here a time or two (does he belong?  I dunno.....don't really care either, to me it's good, or at least not bad, music).

^^well I've learned something more from the master....never knew Rundgren had anything to do with Meatloaf....and now that I've thought about it, before he acquired an almost infamous reputation, Meatloaf was writing very bombastic music with (as DB says) broadway semblences....I imagine he's been suggested for inclusion here a time or two (does he belong?  I dunno.....don't really care either, to me it's good, or at least not bad, music).

jimmy_row wrote: ^^I have to admit I laughed a bit when I saw Meatloaf on there; Kansas is way ahead of the other bands there (of course Rush doesn't count....USA????wff) but I agree - they definately never tried to be "prog-clones", still, many will always write off mid-70's American bands because they weren't in the same ballpark as Yes and ELP.   Most people who think that Styx shouldn't be here (I don't care if they were "good" or not) haven't even listened to anything other than radio hits:  Babe, Roboto, Best of Times, etc.....so then why don't we judge Yes on 90125?

Re : Meatloaf - I think that the article would have been written after the first album. There are parts that are more "composed" than most pop music, such as the Bat out of Hell overture and what not. I remember some reviews using words like operatic to describe the album's style.
You are right in regards to American bands being slighted for perceived shortcomings when it comes to their progginess. But then, U.S. hard rock & metal bands used to subjected to the same sl*gging. The american style was supposedly more meat & potatoes basic, more Broadway in presentation; while the British were more flash , more esoteric or high minded  , & music hall being an influence.
OF course, to the music fan, whatever the influences or music styles combined don't matter. The end result is what I'm hearing. So Zep might have their folk influences such as Jansch, but an American band might carry forward more of the rockabilly & country sounds that they were more exposed to. Unfortunately, I can't come up with a U.S. group that matches Zep, so it kind of hampers the example, eh.