Double-bass drumming...

Wait, wait, wait, what's the issue here, double bass sounding like a sexual act to someone? In Meshuggah, Necrophagist, Hate Eternal, Nile... ouch! Now that could inspire quite a grindcore lyric  not the most healthy speeds and tempos to make love in, I guess.

And I will quote the opinion of a friend of mine on Freud's theories:

".................................why."

MikeEnRegalia wrote: BaldJean wrote: have you ever listend to tribal drumming? if yes, you may have noticed that the drums in the lowest register are never played as fast as the drums in the higher registers. there is of course a reason to it; there is a lot of sexuality in tribal drumming, even if it is done for ritual reasons, and the lowest register beats the basic beat of the sexual act. you may say this is not the intention of drummers who play like that, but unfortunately that does not matter at all; the message remains the same. let me make an analogy: suppose someone listened to Morse code without knowing what it means, and also suppose he has a device for sending Morse code himself. suppose he hears an SOS signal from somewhere and is intrigued by the rhythm (dadada daadaadaa dadada) and decides to send some of that himself, without knowing what it means; you can be sure people will try to locate him and come for the rescue nevertheless. so whether a drummer does this consciously or unconsciously or has the intention to communicate what I spoke of does not matter at all; it is how it comes across. and for me this simply is ridiculous wow, it's really all related to sex for you. I'm sure that not all music is about sex ... in fact I think that most prog music isn't. And death/black metal most surely is not!

I think BaldJean that even if what you say may have some truth (stretching it in my opinion) to it, in the end you're just trying to rationalize and give reasons for something that is entirely and 100% subjective: you don't like double bass drum. That's perfect. When you try to convince people of how "macho" or pre-historic double bass drumming is, you lose it, because you're trying to be objective with something that's not objective at all. You don't like double bass drums. That should be the end. I don't like, say, Sigur Ros. I can explain the reasons why I don't like it (slow, the voice, repetitive, etc) but I won't pretend those reasons are applicable and objective to everybody. Those are MY reasons. So after saying why I don't like it, I wouldn't try to convince people of how right and tru my vision is. It's impossible. Millios love double bass drum and are NOT the type of macho guy yo paint with words, some hate double bass drum and actually are what ypou mention. That it starts as a tribal or sensual move... hell! Don't leave it at that! Every musician is, in the end, trying to get laid! (I don't vbelive this but if we agree with you, then we can apply the concept to everybody...). Not only metal doulble-bass drummers....

have you ever listend to tribal drumming? if yes, you may have noticed that the drums in the lowest register are never played as fast as the drums in the higher registers. there is of course a reason to it; there is a lot of sexuality in tribal drumming, even if it is done for ritual reasons, and the lowest register beats the basic beat of the sexual act.
you may say this is not the intention of drummers who play like that, but unfortunately that does not matter at all; the message remains the same. let me make an analogy: suppose someone listened to Morse code without knowing what it means, and also suppose he has a device for sending Morse code himself. suppose he hears an SOS signal from somewhere and is intrigued by the rhythm (dadada daadaadaa dadada) and decides to send some of that himself, without knowing what it means; you can be sure people will try to locate him and come for the rescue nevertheless.
so whether a drummer does this consciously or unconsciously or has the intention to communicate what I spoke of does not matter at all; it is how it comes across. and for me this simply is ridiculous


Edited by BaldJean - April 01 2008 at 06:19

BaldFriede wrote: There is a certain trick in the way you kick the bass drum that can give you the effect of a double bass drum, although not for these minute-long thunders some drummers produce with it. But it is all I need to emphasize certain parts of the bass drum. And I would feel ashamed of myself if I had to use a double bass-drum for that. On the contrary; I am glad I can juxtapose the effect with playing the hi-hat at the same time. It is hard to describe that trick but easy to demonstrate.

I've heard of this technique, Zach Hill of Hella is quite adept with it.....however it is really difficult from what I've heard

schizoid_man77 wrote: rileydog22 wrote: A double-kick drum or pedal can be useful, but not when just playing 16th or 32nd notes.  If you're using it to play creative parts that also happen to be fast, that's fine.   But if you're just playing straight-up 16th notes and not doing anything artistic, that's not fine.  That's just boring.     Agree   Most mainstream metal and hardcore bands usually slaughter the artistic value a double bass can give and just play the "I can play faster than you" game. Even Tool falls into that trap... sometimes.

I kind of like fast solos and the first thing that goes through my mind when i hear one is this sudden urge to jump on the guitarist and let him tear me apart.

BaldJean wrote: Mike, this kind of attitude has been behind virtuoso playing throughout the centuries; it is not an invention of metal bands at all. the jazz stars of the 30s, the virtuosos of the romantic area, speed metal virtuosos of today, they all developed their style first and foremost to impress the ladies , even if that may have happened subconsciously. it is like buying a Rolls Royce or a Porsche: a status symbol; only musicians can't afford any of these cars, at least not in the beginning, so they have to look for other status symbols. I certainly don't deny that some great music was conceived that way, but it was definitely not "l'art pour l'art". musicians are very sensual beings; Bach did not have 21 kids for nothing music is the sensual art per se (apart from olfactory); of course there are sexual connotations. it is simply ridiculous to deny them. in the case of double bass drumming, however, this becomes especially ostentatious. and, by the way, you should also notice that Friede never mentioned rape at all

It's curious ... I really can't believe that the ladies can be impressed with musical virtuosity. Maybe it was like that in the dark ages, but today they're more impressed by cars, good looks and financial security. Dream Theater are the most virtuosic and "big selling" band currently out there, and I'm not seeing any "fan girls" at the shows ... rather the reverse.

And about the rape thing: Sorry, maybe I went a little bit overboard there. But your descriptions of metal musicians are a bit stereotypical ... the sexist, violent adolescent with too much testosteron. Did you watch the Dave Lombardo drum clinic? Please explain to me how all the "show off" attitude applies to him?

And about virtuosic musicianship in general:

http://www.dreamtheater.net/

Watch the in studio video of Dark Eternal Night ... these guys are really great musicians, but they're not showing off at all. They're playing complex, demanding stuff and don't have to prove anything to anyone ... certainly the least Mike Portnoy is thinking about while playing is what people think of his leg muscles.

rileydog22 wrote: A double-kick drum or pedal can be useful, but not when just playing 16th or 32nd notes.  If you're using it to play creative parts that also happen to be fast, that's fine.   But if you're just playing straight-up 16th notes and not doing anything artistic, that's not fine.  That's just boring.

Yay for psychoanalysing music.