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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Topic: until the re-vamp... outta here Posted: January 26 2005 at 11:28 |
Robby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 10:51 |
Rob The Good wrote:
My name's Rob too!!! Except that's my real name.
I'm not getting geared up to leave, but I AM getting tired of the endless debates. It seems people are absolutely nuts about getting their favourite band into the archive. I'm not making any comments about whether or not Radiohead are prog, but THAT'S how they got into the archive. I did that too!! I pushed for Roxy Music & The Crazy World of Arthur Brown to be included, and they were.
But the old maxim stays true: Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't prog. Just because you DO like it, doesn't mean it IS prog.
I think it's a good idea that some of us take some time out. Things can get heated, and it's no help to anyone at all. It's sort of like me discussing politics here in NZ. The extreme left have really ruined the country, while the right or liberal centre are really suffering. Painful. |
I think it's settled down a lot. Now would be a better time for those who left ,to come back, not for you to leave.
I know your name's Rob.
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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Rob The Good
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 17 2004
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 476
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 03:51 |
My name's Rob too!!! Except that's my real name.
I'm not getting geared up to leave, but I AM getting tired of the endless debates. It seems people are absolutely nuts about getting their favourite band into the archive. I'm not making any comments about whether or not Radiohead are prog, but THAT'S how they got into the archive. I did that too!! I pushed for Roxy Music & The Crazy World of Arthur Brown to be included, and they were.
But the old maxim stays true: Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't prog. Just because you DO like it, doesn't mean it IS prog.
I think it's a good idea that some of us take some time out. Things can get heated, and it's no help to anyone at all. It's sort of like me discussing politics here in NZ. The extreme left have really ruined the country, while the right or liberal centre are really suffering. Painful.
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And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 25 2005 at 09:54 |
arcer..
Hope to hear from you soon!
To be frank I've run out of things to say myself, but I visit this forum every day of the week, and I love it. I advise any older member of this club, to just back off from the forum if they get frustrated with the discussions. Write some reviews, collaborate in whatever way you feel you can with the archives, but DONT 'leave'
Please. Dont leave me with these kids..I'm a hopeless babysitter...
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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sigod
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2004
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: January 25 2005 at 09:37 |
Cheers Arcer, you'll be missed. Many of the smiles this forum has given
me have come from you and your music equipment posts are always
informative and have better than average spelling.
Come back soon mate.
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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 23:18 |
gdub411 wrote:
[
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You're absolutely correct TF8ts but I must say once again....He is 17...not...well you know!...and if these oldtimers aren't mature enough to suck it up and try to be an example to these kids, what does it say about them? We have had time to build a thick skin so what is our excuse?
[/QUOTE]
I already posted that i didn't have anything against Rob or his Zeppelin thread. It is some other people that come on here do not, by their own admission, don't like prog and then start flaming type posting just to get a rise out of people. They can all go away.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 23:06 |
threefates wrote:
Sweetnighter wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
I agree, he should be able to suggest adding bands to the archives if he wants. Regardless, if his doing so is resulting in other peoples' leaving the site over frustration, then something needs to change. I've said this before, and I really really really hope that the revamp somehow addresses this.
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Actually, I just don't get the reasoning here. This site is not called "Prog & Everything Else Archives"... its called ProgArchives. I'm a fan of AC/DC, but you don't see me requesting they be let on this site... As sure as I'm not going into a Metal or Hard Rock sites and ask them to add ELP...
So what if Led Zep is Rob's favorite band? Even tho they are a great band.. and historically as important as any other... that still doesn't make them prog or give them a place here, nor does it make sense for someone to request their admittance here just because he loves them.
This is an exclusive party... if it wasn't, then this site would mean absolutely nothing. Which its beginning to become anyway with all this silly illogical discussion... and its driving all the long time members away.. because they just can't handle the lunacy....
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You're absolutely correct TF8ts but I must say once again....He is 17...not...well you know!...and if these oldtimers aren't mature enough to suck it up and try to be an example to these kids, what does it say about them? We have had time to build a thick skin so what is our excuse?
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:58 |
Sweetnighter wrote:
ARGH!!!
This is a place for newcomers to learn about progressive rock, not for them to come and redefine what it is.
-Ian
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I'd like to hilight this quote, as it should be a basic custom followed by newcomers (including myself). I came here to learn, as Rob The Plant, and that's what all of us newcomers should be here for. It's far more constructive to listen, ask questions from the veterans and discuss in an intelligent manner, where as if we come and mock one another far more than is appropriate. This is why I am tellin geveryone blatantly, though I thought I have done htis already, that I am K00l. Sorry all who are enjoying his... um interesting personality, but it's beginning to get a bit over the top.
It's a bit unfortunate that the site is getting crowded with rubbish, but it's not so hard to fix, with some responsibility beng given to the seniors.
Plant, 1/3 Guruz, etc out.
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:56 |
Sweetnighter wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
I agree, he should be able to suggest adding bands to the archives if he wants. Regardless, if his doing so is resulting in other peoples' leaving the site over frustration, then something needs to change. I've said this before, and I really really really hope that the revamp somehow addresses this.
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Actually, I just don't get the reasoning here. This site is not called "Prog & Everything Else Archives"... its called ProgArchives. I'm a fan of AC/DC, but you don't see me requesting they be let on this site... As sure as I'm not going into a Metal or Hard Rock sites and ask them to add ELP...
So what if Led Zep is Rob's favorite band? Even tho they are a great band.. and historically as important as any other... that still doesn't make them prog or give them a place here, nor does it make sense for someone to request their admittance here just because he loves them.
This is an exclusive party... if it wasn't, then this site would mean absolutely nothing. Which its beginning to become anyway with all this silly illogical discussion... and its driving all the long time members away.. because they just can't handle the lunacy....
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THIS IS ELP
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:55 |
All:
As I noted in the other "I'm taking a break" thread, there is nothing wrong with taking time off, especially since so many of are "winded" from recent events and discussions. I would suggest, however, that you continue to "monitor" the site, especially those threads in which important discussions are being had re new rules and policies for the re-vamp. This is particularly true of those of you who are collaborators; please make sure to monitor the collaborators forums, since that is where final ideas for decision-making will occur.
Peace to all.
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Glass-Prison
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 453
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:23 |
Bravo.
So? How about those mellotrons, eh?
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Sun Tsu said: To fight and conquer in your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Sun Tsu: The art of War
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:16 |
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this
then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name
and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he
would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember
when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The
zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that
kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands
are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led
Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
I agree, he should be able to suggest adding bands to the archives if
he wants. Regardless, if his doing so is resulting in other peoples'
leaving the site over frustration, then something needs to change. I've
said this before, and I really really really hope that the revamp
somehow addresses this.
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:13 |
ARGH!!!
I hate to see this. Of course I do agree with many of Arcer's
sentiments, it frustrates me that the most veteran members of the board
have no way of implementing effective change to stem this recent trend
other than by acting passive agressively and simply leaving the boards.
Should this persist, and I fear that if this opening of the floodgates
to making changes in the archives, that some of the best and most
respected members of the board will continue to drop like flies until
the board becomes like the board we continually talk about not
liking... the ones where people just bash one anothers' favorite band
and no decent conversation goes on. First with Cert's angered departure
and Arcer's more resigned one, we definitely have a problem on our
hands here. I've found that the main discussion page conversation has
really lagged and I sympathize with these people to a large degree.
To compare it to the political arena, this board has seen a major swing
from a conservative outlook on how prog is defined to a seemingly much
more liberal one. Where once Radiohead was seemingly out of the
question, Radiohead is now in the archives and the newer members of the
board are pressing for other groups to join as well, i.e. Led Zeppelin.
Although I initially favored including the band into the archives, I
now sort of regret it, seeing whats happened in the aftermath. It just
seems to me that the veteran members of the board should be making
decisions about including new groups, rather than having newer members
rampantly clamoring for their psuedo-prog groups to be included.
This is a place for newcomers to learn about progressive rock, not for them to come and redefine what it is.
So yes, I made that poll to include Radiohead into the archives,
and may in some small way be guilty for all of this. Although I don't
completely understand the details of the site's revamping, I hope that
it somehow solves this situation. I really find the continuous posting
of "lets add X band" in the main discussions section to be a drag. When
I came here, I came here because I loved the classic prog groups and
wanted to talk to other fans and expand my vision and knowledge of the
genre.
In any event, I would strongly urge the veteran members: threefates,
gdub, velvetclown, reed lover, peter, james, the whole crew... to
work with max and maani to somehow solve this issue. I haven't been
here too long, but I hate to see the forums sliding down this hill.
-Ian
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 22:01 |
threefates wrote:
Rob The Plant wrote:
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Oh Rob... have you met Reed??? I doubt you could actually mock anyone enough to hurt them.
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haha, true. I've been a victim of Reed Lover, he coined the name "Rob the Plank."
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:49 |
Rob The Plant wrote:
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Oh Rob... have you met Reed??? I doubt you could actually mock anyone enough to hurt them.
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THIS IS ELP
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:46 |
tuxon wrote:
threefates wrote:
I think one of the problems here is all the newbies seem to have no understanding of what even relative progressive music is. On one of the Pink Floyd sites someone started a thread called "Your Top Five Favorite Progressive Bands"... and quite a few of them listed mostly bands like the Allman Bros. or Led Zep... the Beatles... I was thoroughly amazed. I gave them the page URL here that explains prog.... but evidently none of them cared...they continued to list any band from the 70s that they liked....
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So your responsible, now these guys have found us, and clutter the forum and the archive with their misconseptions
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Hey, I gave them the Led Zeppelin forum URL also...
Edited by threefates
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THIS IS ELP
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 21:19 |
Rob The Plant wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
Thanks for the defense Gdub, but I do see where the line is, though I also see some progressive elements in Zep. i suppose I lost my cool, because of the Autograph thing, but before that I never really pushed Zeppelin, though I love them to death.
I feel terrible about pushing an old member over the edge like this. I suppose lately I've been caught up in a bit of silliness, which has influenced me (negatively sometimes).
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Nothing I have said in this thread refers to you Rob. Just to be clear.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 20:00 |
gdub411 wrote:
You know if it wasn't Robert The Plant who posted this then I might have groaned in discust too. But when someone whose name and avatar are based on a member of his favorite band, I can see why he would want to try to get them in. Given his age(17), one must remember when we worshipped our favorite band in our youth. The passion, The zeal we had for our band. I am sure RTP is only looking at it in that kind of perspective. It is like all these cool, important bands are invited to this exclusive party, and yet his favorite, Led Zeppelin...is not...!Why?, he is asking!! |
Thanks for the defense Gdub, but I do see where the line is, though I also see some progressive elements in Zep. i suppose I lost my cool, because of the Autograph thing, but before that I never really pushed Zeppelin, though I love them to death.
I feel terrible about pushing an old member over the edge like this. I suppose lately I've been caught up in a bit of silliness, which has influenced me (negatively sometimes).
So I have this to say, sorry for losing us a valuable member, sorry for scaring Peter, sorry for scaring Threefates, sorry for mocking Threefates' her (or whatever exactly Mr Lake is to you), sorry for whatever else I've done.
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:30 |
danbo wrote:
This forum is a place for learning. Sharing your point of view and even learning to develop critical reasoning skills can only be a good experience. Let it go or discuss and teach. It's all about perspectives.... and music. |
Thats all good and I try to do that and shut up and learn when called for, Danbo. The person that I refered to in my message (and there are a few just like him) really has no likes and posts just to tick people off. It just gets annoying. So I will answer on some things but on others I am not going to get drawn in. Hopefully they will get bored and go bother someone else.
Edited by Garion81
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Valarius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 08 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1480
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 19:11 |
Aren't all these people who are suddenly leaving overeacting a little? Or am I missing something?
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