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Tony R 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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 Topic: Ok, I give up, but THE DOORS....
Posted: January 05 2007 at 17:12 |
 Chus wrote:
in fact why don't the admins close this thread... it's distracting the other threads considering that the doors was already added... why don't you all discuss the Doors issue on another section of the forum?.... no biggies  |
Good idea Chus.
Some people have obviously taken leave of their senses.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 05 2007 at 15:42 |
in fact why don't the admins close this thread... it's distracting the other threads considering that the doors was already added... why don't you all discuss the Doors issue on another section of the forum?.... no biggies
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Jesus Gabriel
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: January 05 2007 at 15:30 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
A while ago I have proposed to rename Prog Archives into Prog Music Archives in order to give the possibility to add bands and artists that lack the element rock but sound adventurous, inventive, eclectic, .... progressive. I regret the fact that this site hosts many non-adventurous prog metal bands and doubtful progressive pop bands while very interesting bands/artists like David Bowie, Jeff Beck and Miles Davis are still not added because we are too busy with endless, often emotional and subjective discussions about the right category. We even juggle with the genres Art-rock and Prog-related to add bands/artists to Prog Archives. So please rename Prog Archives into Prog Music Archives, this will do more justice to the word 'progressive'  |
staying away from the doors question.. though ..shock... I agreed with Phillippe as well haha... however.. good news. David Bowie was accepted by the Art Rock team and will added next week by myself with Greg's (Wayward Son) help with the bio. Time to start concentrating on real prog.. and put all this crap behind us.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 11:05 |
Peter, Neither Melanie or The New Seekers are prog I tell you! 
(One of the best Coke adverts though)
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 09:40 |
I have no problem with the Doors being included here. I consider them a good fit. There's room enough for all artists who didn't fit "the mold" and their inclusion allows for a broader discussion of progressive influences on today's music. There are millions of younger music lovers who need to be introduced to the myriad of musicians and bands from the sixties and seventies. Progressive rock music isn't a narrow trail, it's a highway.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 09:01 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
Thanks for reading!
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I didn't.
do I have to add a winking/laughing emoticon?
Edited by Snow Dog - January 03 2007 at 09:04
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 08:55 |
^ But WTF is "prog?"  'Sokay Bob, and that makes sense. I guess the frequent disputes over additions/ommissions bothers me more than some.  All together now: "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect har-mo-kneeeeee, grow apple trees and bloodsucking fleas...." 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:46 |
Changing the site name would change the focus of the site. Regardless of what bands are added, and whether or not we disagree with their addition, the core value of the site is and always be prog.
By removing the word "prog" from the name, you would give equal status to all the bands listed. Currently, by definition proto prog and prog related bands do not have equal status, they sit on the edge of the site.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 00:59 |
had to look up the meaning of clods. 
anyway. it's not the name that defines the site, it's the content that does.
you can name it "Archie's Dumpster" and still there will be no difference.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 00:45 |
 Rollsrightoffthetongue,tuxie!
Therevealingscienceofclods....
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 00:40 |
progandsomenonprogrockandnonrockmusicarchives
that's a pretty good name isn't it
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 23:49 |
I see your point, Erik, but the name " prog music archives" still implies that everything listed here is "prog" (but its not all "prog," is it?). "Prog rock" or "prog music," people will still argue endlessly about an artist's "prog" credentials. "Prog" is the issue, the thing we can't nail down, or pin lifeless in a display case. We can try to do so with words (as has been done here), but still, making those few words (all open to individual interpretation) apply (or not) to all the music in the world, to the satisfaction of all, is a hopeless task. Trying to thus narrowly "contain" or categorize art with words is much like trying to hold wind in a net.  Still, I prefer a name like the one I proposed -- " progcetera" because that implies that the site contains prog, plus other forms of music (likely of interest to prog fans). Anyway, in all honesty I don't suppose a mere name would change much, in the end, because people being people, they will still assume that all music being listed here is being classified as "prog" -- when it (already) isn't. If it was my site though, I might try a name change to make the broader, evolving focus clearer, to try to head off some of the endless arguments and acrimony that continue to plague this forum, and the reviews. Bottom line: narrowly categorizing something as amorphous (and so dependent upon the individual listener for its "meaning") as music will always be a contentious, woefully inexact, subjective process. We try to treat art like science or math, as something that we can all view the same way, and "measure," but that approach simply does not work. Consensus will only be possible when all art is the same (God forbid) or when we are all the same (impossible). As I've said before, "prog" is a value judgement made by individuals -- it is not anything concrete. It basically means "good," or "better than average," and those are highly subjective notions. The very term "prog" was, is, and will always be the problem here.
Thanks for reading!
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 17:45 |
^^^amen to that 
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Jesus Gabriel
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 17:42 |
A while ago I have proposed to rename Prog Archives into Prog Music Archives in order to give the possibility to add bands and artists that lack the element rock but sound adventurous, inventive, eclectic, .... progressive. I regret the fact that this site hosts many non-adventurous prog metal bands and doubtful progressive pop bands while very interesting bands/artists like David Bowie, Jeff Beck and Miles Davis are still not added because we are too busy with endless, often emotional and subjective discussions about the right category. We even juggle with the genres Art-rock and Prog-related to add bands/artists to Prog Archives. So please rename Prog Archives into Prog Music Archives, this will do more justice to the word 'progressive'
Edited by erik neuteboom - January 02 2007 at 17:43
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philippe
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 14 2004
Location: noosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 3597
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 16:33 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
As an electronic - and space rock fan I know many bands that Philippe has described on this site, most of these bands have nothing to do with rock and for sure The Doors has something to do with rock and progressive. So in fact The Who and Jimi Hendrix should be here but instead of adding these creative and pivotal rock bands we have added bands like Iron Maiden, Osibisa, Triumph, Magnum and lots of psychedelic, electronic and space bands that lack the element rock. What about this? |
This "pseudo-prog" battle between boring (metal/rock)classics is hilarious (none of those bands should figure in the site because they already have their place on the web, moreover their connexion to prog is purely fantasist)
Thanks to the mediocrity!
If you've asked me the question, where are the musical roots of all bands mentioned as progressive on the site, I will answer that they are outside of "rock", the "progressive" dimension of these bands has to be founded in others musical genres (illustrated by Miles Davis, Ravi Shankar, Terry Riley, Moondog, Subotnick to name a few)
Edited by philippe - January 02 2007 at 17:00
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 14:03 |
Alternately, we could just invent more categories. 
Perhaps one per artist: their name, for instance....
I find it amusing how many write statements like: "we should just concentrate on adding REAL prog bands," as if those bands were broadly known and accepted as such. It's all subjective, in the end.
Especially prog related! 
Edited by Peter Rideout - January 02 2007 at 14:04
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 13:46 |
Prog, as an identifiable, living music form, does not really exist.
Other than its historic use as a term to delineate a movement within rock in the late 60s - early 70s, and to identify certain key artists who were part of that movement, it's an outdated, purely subjective, near-meaningless word. Everyone seems to know what it means, but we can't seem to agree upon that meaning. (It basically seems to indicate "good," "different" or "above average" these days -- very difficult concepts to pin down and reach a broad concensus on.)
Thus the problem with additions: 99.9% of the "real" prog bands have long since been added. 
This is more and more a music site. As I've long suggested, a modifcation of the site's name (& "mission statement") might go a long way toward clearing up the confusion and discord around the notion of "prog" and artist inclusion/exclusion.
Edited by Peter Rideout - January 02 2007 at 14:07
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 13:27 |
freekske wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:
Anyway, i prefer to see the Doors than some shameful so-called "prog" metal bands. I've been horrified to see how high "Riverside" is quoted and how many 5 stars reviews it has...i've unfortunatly heard this album (""Second life syndrome"") and been traumatized for ever.
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not to forget DT  |
I think DT are prog-metal band, while Riverside are not.
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carefulwiththataxe
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 13:25 |
progismylife wrote:
The Miracle wrote:
TheProgtologist wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I actually agree with Philippe!
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Me too,will wonders never cease?
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Wow, this is a true miracle....  !
I think that if we allow Zep and Maiden here, we can't not include Doors, it's an 'if x is here so should be w' case. Same applies to Hendrix, he is more progressive and surely tons more influential than Doors.
But IMO, none of them belong here
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I agree with Ansen. None of them should be included. Robert Plant was a big fan of Jim Morrison. Led Zeppelin influenced Rush but only in hard rock. They claim their influences changed to Yes and the like. So the proto -prog that should be added is the influence of Yes and even that would be pushing it. None of these rock stars (not prog) should be here.
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I also agree that none of them belong here, but what we think should be or should not be here does not really matter, as this is the site with inclusive tendencies, and there is nothing to argue about. The only thing that bothers me is that some more obscure but truly progressive bands are still not included here and it takes long time to get them added, probably because the site is flooded with huge amount of "doubtfully progressive" bands. That's all.
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carefulwiththataxe
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freekske
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 11 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 339
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Posted: January 02 2007 at 12:59 |
oliverstoned wrote:
Anyway, i prefer to see the Doors than some shameful so-called "prog" metal bands. I've been horrified to see how high "Riverside" is quoted and how many 5 stars reviews it has...i've unfortunatly heard this album (""Second life syndrome"") and been traumatized for ever.
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not to forget DT
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 Yes it is!!
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Ok, I give up, but THE DOORS....
