Ok, I give up, but THE DOORS....
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31414
Printed Date: March 03 2025 at 12:18
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Ok, I give up, but THE DOORS....
Posted By: The T
Subject: Ok, I give up, but THE DOORS....
Date Posted: November 22 2006 at 21:43
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Ok, I'll never get Amorphis in this website.... Even though I'm firmly convinced they have prog elements and more of them that a lot of already included bands... OK, I give up, maybe when Green Day is included (the way things are going)....
But I just can't take this injustice: we have Santana, maybe prog, past discussion... we don't have Hendrix, who revolutionized everything...Ok, I shut up.... We have Led Zeppelin, who maybe somehow deserve to be here.... Ok.... somebody asks BOWIE over here, but let's stop the injustice: if there's one rock-pop-blues-psychedelia-jazz band that HAS to be included is THE DOORS... with Amorphis I have the problem of they being unknown, lack of support, but with The Doors, please, I don't think I'm saying anything new by the way... Listen to The End, to The Soft Parade, When the Music's Over....
If PA includes Bowie and not The Doors... well, I'll ask for the inclusion of Beyonce as prog-related... she broke boundaries!
Please, Morrison Manzarek Krieger and Densmore cannot not be here...
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Replies:
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 03:18
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Most likely The Doors are coming up soon. I think we should let Erik Neuteboom get the chance to include them in proto-prog since he has championed their inclusion for roughly 2 years now.
Go for it Erik!! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 04:52
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If I have time I will make a biography about The Doors, I have more than 10 books and even written an article about Jim Morrison so this will be a comprehensive one. But at this moment I am busy with The Gift, Yesterdays and Also Eden to gather information and making a biography so this is my priority. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 06:32
Of course the Doors are coming next...
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Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 10:11
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don't worry Rico, I'm sure they will be added eventually
 Anyways I think they should be here as Proto-Prog (well probably
 ).------------- CYMRU AM BYTH 
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 10:31
no doh, I once believe the Doors are from the 30s.  -------------
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PROGMAN wrote:Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 14:48
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The Doors - Bluesy pyschadelia
Bowie - Glam rock Instead of so many people concentrating on adding bands that have extremely thin ties to progressive rock,why not concentrate on finding and adding some genuine progressive bands to the archives? -------------  |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 14:52
Bowie? Glam rock? You are VERY misinformed, Jody. He had a glam rock period, yes, but he also had an art rock period and a dance music period and a folk period. You're thinking of Bowie circa Ziggy Stardust and Aladdin Sane. Much of Bowie's stuff is prog (Low, Heroes, Scary Monsters, Station to Station). ------------- 
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 14:55
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I like both artist a whole lot. They both made interesting and artistic music that has been highly influential to many genres of music, prog included. I could care less if they get added or not, it's all cool to me. -------------  
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 14:55
Couldn't agree more  ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 21:53
That's true,I posted in a hurry.I know Bowie has had a long and varied career,and I have always loved his music.My mistake. ------------- |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 00:44
It would be nice to see The Doors here... i would reivew all their albums for sure  ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 00:51
The same for me too. I'm curious anyway to see what people think of The Soft Parade. I presume many would underestimate it due to the pop influence. BTW, I always thought that the brass section is amazing in songs as Touch Me and Tell All The People. The album has other excellent and classic tracks as Easy Ride, Wild Child and the Soft Parade itself!
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 04:41
I don't consider the Berlin trilogy (including Badger , which you forgot) as prog. Working with Fripp and Eno does not make you any proggier.
I would call Bowie's works Glam-punkish rock until Station To Station >> Musically, the Berlin trilogy is too close to Lou Reed and New York Dolls stuff >> not exactly those artists per se but that type of "decadent" crowd.
His more art rock material starts from the late 80's (at least after the horrendous Let's Dance) until now ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 11:08
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I agree that they would fit here! Open the Doors! ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 13:33
| The Doors were an unique blend of rock, blues, jazz, classic, psychedelia and even some flamenco (Spanish Caravan), it sounds very eclectic and adventurous. I hope I will have soon time to make the The Doors biography (I have to translate and edit a Jim Morrison article I wrote for a Dutch rock magazine). Perhaps next week, any other progheads who are eager to write a biography? |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 02:49
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when's Elvis being added here??? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 09:22
| The Doors deserve a place in Psychedelic/Space Rock. After all, they are the first band to be considered psychedelic (The Byrds are credited with its invetion with some of the songs, but they never switched from their folk rock). In addition, "The End" is one of, if not the first, rock songs to exceed ten minutes in length. That songs is full of time changes and varying themes, so its prog by my standards. Loook, if Maiden can make PA despite one album of quasi prog, then the Doors who are the first traceable root of prog deserve a place. |
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 15:06
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Since when the Doors influenced Psychedelic space rock and progressive rock in general? Some of you guys are really blinded by big f**king names.
the roots of space rock are far from that sh*t! ------------- 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 15:09
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I actually agree with Philippe!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 15:15
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A tad harsh, but true. ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 16:17
Me too,will wonders never cease? ------------- |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 17:45
Wow, this is a true miracle....  !I think that if we allow Zep and Maiden here, we can't not include Doors, it's an 'if x is here so should be w' case. Same applies to Hendrix, he is more progressive and surely tons more influential than Doors. But IMO, none of them belong here ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 18:00
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Philippe,
Voice your opinions strongly by all means, but moderate the language SVP.
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 18:25
| As an electronic - and space rock fan I know many bands that Philippe has described on this site, most of these bands have nothing to do with rock and for sure The Doors has something to do with rock and progressive. So in fact The Who and Jimi Hendrix should be here but instead of adding these creative and pivotal rock bands we have added bands like Iron Maiden, Osibisa, Triumph, Magnum and lots of psychedelic, electronic and space bands that lack the element rock. What about this? |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 18:34
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*sighs*
I love The Doors, but this is kinda crazy. -------------
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Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 18:48
I agree with Ansen. None of them should be included. Robert Plant was a big fan of Jim Morrison. Led Zeppelin influenced Rush but only in hard rock. They claim their influences changed to Yes and the like. So the proto -prog that should be added is the influence of Yes and even that would be pushing it. None of these rock stars (not prog) should be here. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 12:44
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As much as I do believe they should be included, I also think that our energies would be better spent on lesser known prog bands. Recently I have had the opportunity to discover a wide range of bands with almost no recognition. Everybody knows the Doors. Let's give some press to artists that need it.
But, as I am sure that they will be added, I will also give my support to Erik for authoring the bio. He's already done a lot of research. I'm sure it will be a good one, that we will all appreciate. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 12:49
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And so they are here.
------------- 
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 12:50
you can already read it here: http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=2772 ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 12:52
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Anyway, i prefer to see the Doors than some shameful so-called "prog" metal bands. I've been horrified to see how high "Riverside" is quoted and how many 5 stars reviews it has...i've unfortunatly heard this album (""Second life syndrome"") and been traumatized for ever. |
Posted By: freekske
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 12:59
not to forget DT -------------  Yes it is!!
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 13:25
I also agree that none of them belong here, but what we think should be or should not be here does not really matter, as this is the site with inclusive tendencies, and there is nothing to argue about. The only thing that bothers me is that some more obscure but truly progressive bands are still not included here and it takes long time to get them added, probably because the site is flooded with huge amount of "doubtfully progressive" bands. That's all.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 13:27
I think DT are prog-metal band, while Riverside are not.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 13:46
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Prog, as an identifiable, living music form, does not really exist.
Other than its historic use as a term to delineate a movement within rock in the late 60s - early 70s, and to identify certain key artists who were part of that movement, it's an outdated, purely subjective, near-meaningless word. Everyone seems to know what it means, but we can't seem to agree upon that meaning. (It basically seems to indicate "good," "different" or "above average" these days -- very difficult concepts to pin down and reach a broad concensus on.)
Thus the problem with additions: 99.9% of the "real" prog bands have long since been added.
 This is more and more a music site. As I've long suggested, a modifcation of the site's name (& "mission statement") might go a long way toward clearing up the confusion and discord around the notion of "prog" and artist inclusion/exclusion. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 14:03
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Alternately, we could just invent more categories.
Perhaps one per artist: their name, for instance....
I find it amusing how many write statements like: "we should just concentrate on adding REAL prog bands," as if those bands were broadly known and accepted as such. It's all subjective, in the end.
Especially prog related!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 16:33
This "pseudo-prog" battle between boring (metal/rock)classics is hilarious (none of those bands should figure in the site because they already have their place on the web, moreover their connexion to prog is purely fantasist) Thanks to the mediocrity! If you've asked me the question, where are the musical roots of all bands mentioned as progressive on the site, I will answer that they are outside of "rock", the "progressive" dimension of these bands has to be founded in others musical genres (illustrated by Miles Davis, Ravi Shankar, Terry Riley, Moondog, Subotnick to name a few) -------------
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 17:42
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A while ago I have proposed to rename Prog Archives into Prog Music Archives in order to give the possibility to add bands and artists that lack the element rock but sound adventurous, inventive, eclectic, .... progressive. I regret the fact that this site hosts many non-adventurous prog metal bands and doubtful progressive pop bands while very interesting bands/artists like David Bowie, Jeff Beck and Miles Davis are still not added because we are too busy with endless, often emotional and subjective discussions about the right category. We even juggle with the genres Art-rock and Prog-related to add bands/artists to Prog Archives. So please rename Prog Archives into Prog Music Archives, this will do more justice to the word 'progressive'
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Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 17:45
^^^amen to that  ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 23:49
I see your point, Erik, but the name "prog music archives" still implies that everything listed here is "prog" (but its not all "prog," is it?). "Prog rock" or "prog music," people will still argue endlessly about an artist's "prog" credentials. "Prog" is the issue, the thing we can't nail down, or pin lifeless in a display case. We can try to do so with words (as has been done here), but still, making those few words (all open to individual interpretation) apply (or not) to all the music in the world, to the satisfaction of all, is a hopeless task. Trying to thus narrowly "contain" or categorize art with words is much like trying to hold wind in a net.  Still, I prefer a name like the one I proposed -- "progcetera" because that implies that the site contains prog, plus other forms of music (likely of interest to prog fans). Anyway, in all honesty I don't suppose a mere name would change much, in the end, because people being people, they will still assume that all music being listed here is being classified as "prog" -- when it (already) isn't. If it was my site though, I might try a name change to make the broader, evolving focus clearer, to try to head off some of the endless arguments and acrimony that continue to plague this forum, and the reviews. Bottom line: narrowly categorizing something as amorphous (and so dependent upon the individual listener for its "meaning") as music will always be a contentious, woefully inexact, subjective process. We try to treat art like science or math, as something that we can all view the same way, and "measure," but that approach simply does not work. Consensus will only be possible when all art is the same (God forbid) or when we are all the same (impossible). As I've said before, "prog" is a value judgement made by individuals -- it is not anything concrete. It basically means "good," or "better than average," and those are highly subjective notions. The very term "prog" was, is, and will always be the problem here. Thanks for reading!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 00:40
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progandsomenonprogrockandnonrockmusicarchives that's a pretty good name isn't it ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 00:45
 Rollsrightoffthetongue,tuxie!Therevealingscienceofclods....  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 00:59
had to look up the meaning of clods.
anyway. it's not the name that defines the site, it's the content that does.
you can name it "Archie's Dumpster" and still there will be no difference.
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 03:46
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Changing the site name would change the focus of the site. Regardless of what bands are added, and whether or not we disagree with their addition, the core value of the site is and always be prog.
By removing the word "prog" from the name, you would give equal status to all the bands listed. Currently, by definition proto prog and prog related bands do not have equal status, they sit on the edge of the site.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 08:55
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^ But WTF is "prog?" 'Sokay Bob, and that makes sense. I guess the frequent disputes over additions/ommissions bothers me more than some. All together now: "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect har-mo-kneeeeee, grow apple trees and bloodsucking fleas...."  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 09:01
I didn't.  do I have to add a winking/laughing emoticon? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 09:40
I have no problem with the Doors being included here. I consider them a good fit. There's room enough for all artists who didn't fit "the mold" and their inclusion allows for a broader discussion of progressive influences on today's music. There are millions of younger music lovers who need to be introduced to the myriad of musicians and bands from the sixties and seventies. Progressive rock music isn't a narrow trail, it's a highway.  ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 11:05
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Peter, Neither Melanie or The New Seekers are prog I tell you!
(One of the best Coke adverts though)
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 05 2007 at 15:30
staying away from the doors question.. though ..shock... I agreed with Phillippe as well haha... however.. good news. David Bowie was accepted by the Art Rock team and will added next week by myself with Greg's (Wayward Son) help with the bio. Time to start concentrating on real prog.. and put all this crap behind us. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: January 05 2007 at 15:42
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in fact why don't the admins close this thread... it's distracting the other threads considering that the doors was already added... why don't you all discuss the Doors issue on another section of the forum?.... no biggies ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 05 2007 at 17:12
Good idea Chus. Some people have obviously taken leave of their senses. |