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Topic Closedwall between USA and Mexico

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Poll Question: your vote and opinion
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28 [77.78%]
8 [22.22%]
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Atkingani View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: wall between USA and Mexico
    Posted: January 03 2007 at 21:51
This poll is outdated, Markos... the "news" are old and everything to be said was said.
 
Let the poll RIP. Thanks!


Edited by Atkingani - January 03 2007 at 21:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2007 at 21:17

Bush is a retrograde

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2006 at 00:48
Originally posted by jalas jalas wrote:

Maybe if the American corporations that exploit people in Latin America were to pay descent wages, then there will not have to be a wall.  All the problems that the US has, the US brings it on itself.Angry 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2006 at 18:23
Originally posted by jalas jalas wrote:

Maybe if the American corporations that exploit people in Latin America were to pay descent wages, then there will not have to be a wall.  All the problems that the US has, the US brings it on itself.Angry 
That's the weird thing, people here complain about losing jobs to immigrants
when huge companies like Ford and GM outsource all their jobs to other countries for cheap labor.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2006 at 14:40
Maybe if the American corporations that exploit people in Latin America were to pay descent wages, then there will not have to be a wall.  All the problems that the US has, the US brings it on itself.Angry 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2006 at 17:04
It will be a colossal waste of time and money which will utterly fail in its purpose. A wall won't stop anybody with sufficient determination and some basic ladder, tunnel or boat building skills, to say nothing of access to air transport. After all, the UK has a minimum of 22 miles of open sea all around its notional borders and we have no shortage of illegal immigrants here.
 
What a wall will do is boost opportunities for organised crime to profit from people trafficking and simultaneously cause resentment, discontent and anti-US feeling in Latin America.
 
There is a real problem to be dealt with, but a wall is not the solution.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2006 at 16:44
The best choice is to stay home (and fight for less corruption and better conditions)!
 
I don't know the real situation all over Mexico and some other countries but here in Brazil we had some years ago a kind of trend from some shameful middle-class who left the country seeking for a "better life" outside. The majority is on a critical position or returned with a sour taste in the mouth!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2006 at 14:25
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The only way to stop the illegal inmigration not in a short lapse of time is stopping the American way of life propaganda.
 
USA politicians keep saying in all public forums, we are the greatest, people is free here, everybody can get a job, we are better than any other country, the land of the free, blah blah blah.
 
Stop that, say the truth, the Social Seccurity is about to collapse, there's not enough jobs for USA citizens, illegal inmigrants are exploited, if you don't have insurance you will die, there's no future for more foreigners, we are not the best place to live.
 
But, when they need votes or need to fight any dictator they start again with the propaganda, then if you tell people USA is the paradise, why do you ask the reason why more inmigrants go there......because they buy the story.
 
Iván
 
 I agree entirely with that... then again in europe there's a lot of immigration and the social security system works for natives and immigrants as well... even illegals!... so America is not the first choice nowadays... of course mexicans and cubans will have to choose America because of the relatively close distance...
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2006 at 14:20
 This is an outrage, really!.
 
 US steals territory and they expect ovations because erecting a wall is "necessary" for their sovereignty... or their "EMPIRE"?.
 
 This is just another version of the wall of Berlin, considering that the borders are filled with mexican relatives.
 
 The UN can't do anything but suggest, since G.W. Bush proved that organizations' incompetence when dealing with sovereignty of countries like Iraq or Puerto Rico. Bush feels he can do whatever the hell he likes because the UN won't really give a frog's butt (by the way, you should watch that movie "The Day After Tomorrow". It's simply more than just another natural-disaster movie rip-off..... it has a message for the americans regarding their brother countries).
 
 

 



Edited by Chus - November 16 2006 at 14:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2006 at 01:01
Originally posted by ClemofNazareth ClemofNazareth wrote:

I am married to a Mexican national and have over 50 in-laws who live there, so on a personal level this is grossly offensive to me.

From a pragmatic standpoint, there have been a lot of jokes about the U.S. having to hire Mexicans to build that wall. I believe people need to think very carefully about that. The Hispanic demographics for the four states across which this wall will run:

Arizona - 26%
New Mexico - 42%
Texas - 32%
California - 32%

So really - who is going to build this thing? Is the government going to bring in labor from other parts of the country? If so, there are going to be serious problems in those communities, especially the ones around where Hurricane Katrina struck and people are still suffering and not particularly happy with their government anyway.

There are also bound to be many confrontations, demonstrations, sabotage, and general violence around the construction sites by people on both sides of the issue. Even beyond the demographics of the number of Hispanics in those states, there are many, many more families who are multi-racial with one of the spouses being Hispanic. These families will be affected in cases where one or more family member works on the wall, or demonstrates on behalf of one or the other side of the issue.

There will be economic and social impacts for families, friends, businesses, churches, and social groups who currently have members that live on both sides of the border. Just ask anyone who was caught on the wrong side when the Berlin Wall went up, or when the DMZ was fenced off in Korea. Thousands of personal relationships were torn apart and lives shattered.

And like virtually everything else the Bush administration has proposed, the purpose of this wall is based on his immature, reactionary, and overly-simplified view of the world. It would be sadly appropriate if he ordered the wall to be painted black & white.

But on a lighter note - I'm sure there are already bookmakers taking odds on whether the wall will ever even be completed. I know which side my money is on...


One other thought - I wonder which U.S. firm will be the first to buy advertising space on that wall if it actually does get built?   

Great, insightful post!Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:24
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

We should build a wall just so we can have David Hasslehoff stand over it and sing a song while we tear it down. Thumbs Up
 
Damn! i couldn`t have thought in a better ideaLOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 21:31
We should build a wall just so we can have David Hasslehoff stand over it and sing a song while we tear it down. Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 15:45
The only way to stop the illegal inmigration not in a short lapse of time is stopping the American way of life propaganda.
 
USA politicians keep saying in all public forums, we are the greatest, people is free here, everybody can get a job, we are better than any other country, the land of the free, blah blah blah.
 
Stop that, say the truth, the Social Seccurity is about to collapse, there's not enough jobs for USA citizens, illegal inmigrants are exploited, if you don't have insurance you will die, there's no future for more foreigners, we are not the best place to live.
 
But, when they need votes or need to fight any dictator they start again with the propaganda, then if you tell people USA is the paradise, why do you ask the reason why more inmigrants go there......because they buy the story.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 14:36
Originally posted by inpraiseoffolly inpraiseoffolly wrote:

The best solution is to make there be no reason for them to come to the U.S.  If they cannot get a job here, they won't come.  Why waste money deporting or building a wall when we can punish companies that employ them.  If they fire all the illegals, they'll have to go home (or starve). The best wall is a legal wall put up to prevent all but legal immigrants from getting access to the benefits of being an American citizen.
Doesn't work.
The only way to solve it is if both countries work together to combat the problem.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 13:01
This Free Trade Agreement of the Americas is like the joint-venture between the hen and the pig.
 
The hen invited the pig for a joint-venture in order to supply commodities for the local restaurant. The hen said:
- Hey, pig, let's join and do what's needed; I'll supply the eggs and you'll supply the bacon.
The pig replied:
- Not funny, this way I'll die and you'll receive all the profits.
The hen concluded:
- Well, that's how a joint-venture works, one of the partners has to die! Dead
 
Thankfully, my country didn't sign this "Agreement" and helped to torpedo this idea that wants to transform all Latin American countries in "pigs".
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 12:35
The best solution is to make there be no reason for them to come to the U.S.  If they cannot get a job here, they won't come.  Why waste money deporting or building a wall when we can punish companies that employ them.  If they fire all the illegals, they'll have to go home (or starve). The best wall is a legal wall put up to prevent all but legal immigrants from getting access to the benefits of being an American citizen.

Edited by inpraiseoffolly - November 15 2006 at 12:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 08:44
Just throwing this out there, even if we do build a wall, couldn't the Mexicans just build a catapult?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 01:40
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:



We give aid,money and food to alot of countries,and while I am not against it,there are alot of homeless,unemployed and starving people here in the US too.
 
In what world do you live?:
  1. USA offers us help in the war against drugs....Drugs are not a problem for us, most of it goes to USA, it's your problem, but I agree help is required, but at what cost?...We are forced to destroy rain forest with Orange or Pink Agent because there could be drug lords anywhere, and after that we have to eat the poisoned fruit and the people drink poisoned water.
  2. USA made us sign a Free Trade Treaty, we were forced to give the USA companies a not lower price than we give to our people for  their products.. that's fair....But after signing it USA has decided that they must be allowed to give a better price to their peasants in "emergency" (being this term very vague and wide) situations because they are USA.
  3. We must accept USA products at dumping prices that destroy our industry because your factories have over production.
  4. We are forced not to have commercial relations with countries that USA decide, but they can have business with whoever they want, even sell weapons to our enemies during war.
  5. Our people dies of pneumonia daily and can't pay antibiotics of expensive brands, but if we want the treaty we are not allowed to manufacture generic medicines or buy them from India to support your laboratories....Of course you give the same conditions to us but  WE DON'T HAVE LABS APPROVED BY FDA.
  6. We don't have many AIDS cases because patients die soon being that nobody is able to pay the USA made cocktail at US$ 20,000.00 a year and no insurance covers it, but we can't buy the India cocktail at US$ 400.00 a year that would save many patients.

So we're undesired third class inmigrants unless we are required, if we want a Visa the Embassy can ask us for all our info including bank accounts, grades, studies, police documents, workibng certifoicates while USA citizens come here freely. 

Lets be honest, you don't help us for free, we pay a very expensive price for that help but being a poor country we have no alternative than to accept and thank for it.
 
Still I believe USA is a great country, during the end of te cold war people like me were accused of Pro Yankees because we like your freedom based system, but this doesn't make me be blind to reality, your country doesn't treat us as equals.
 
Iván


    


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 15 2006 at 01:42
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2006 at 00:31
I can't think of this wall in any other way than it being an arrogant gesture from neoconservative American politians to let the Latin American people feel they are second class human beings from which the USA must be saved from. Good thing though, just like Clem mentioned, the Democrats are in majority in the U.S. House and Senate now, so this wall will likely not become reality. It certainly shouldn't.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2006 at 23:16
We need walls if we ever want to break them
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