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JJLehto 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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 Topic: Who says Black Metal singers suck?
Posted: September 09 2006 at 14:04 |
 Falling Flower wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Black Metal sucks in my opinion.....
Although this was hilarious |
Choose your words more carfull or you'll have a bunch of metalheads wanting to kill you.  |
Soooo many people already want to kill me already though
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Falling Flower
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
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Posted: September 09 2006 at 12:43 |
JJLehto wrote:
Black Metal sucks in my opinion.....
Although this was hilarious |
Choose your words more carfull or you'll have a bunch of metalheads wanting to kill you.
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Tool makes the butterflies in my tumybox go woooooooosh
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Kleynan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2006
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 720
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Posted: September 09 2006 at 08:27 |
f**kING DISTURBING!!  If Simon were there, he'd rip his head off... Which that guy clearly deserves... Man, I'm going to have a bad dream tonight
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You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 21:34 |
Jim Garten wrote:
Bryan wrote:
It's possible... I would say that extreme metal vocal styles (both death metal's guttural growling and black metal's higher shrieking) evolved from different takes on thrash metal's agressive vocal styles,which in turn were largely inspired by punk. |
And given that John Lydon was a self confessed VDGG & King Crimson fan... and so on, and so back in time; to turn the 'inspiration line' the other way, how will current death metal vocalising inspire future generations? Will we end up with a timeline stretching from 1969's 'Court Of The Crimson King' to 2012's 'Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Vomiting' to 2020's 'Music From Airport Lavatories'?
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WHERE is the God that guides my hand?
HOW can the hands of others reach me?
WHEN will I find what I grope for?
WHO is going to teach me?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 21:28 |
Black Metal sucks.....
Although this was hilarious
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:08 |
tardis wrote:
On that note...
GROWWWWLLLAARRRAAARRRSSHHSHSRRAAAASAAATAAANNNRAAAARRAAAAABLOOOODDDDDDCCCCCUUUTTINGRAAASRSSSHHHHHHH
(ducks and hides)
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HEY! That's from "Electric Current" by Zyklon! you a fan, too?
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: September 07 2006 at 07:57 |
By the way, I love the fact a thread regarding black metal singers sits happily in the "Discussions not related to music" forum
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: September 07 2006 at 07:55 |
Bryan wrote:
It's possible... I would say that extreme metal vocal styles (both death metal's guttural growling and black metal's higher shrieking) evolved from different takes on thrash metal's agressive vocal styles,which in turn were largely inspired by punk. |
And given that John Lydon was a self confessed VDGG & King Crimson fan... and so on, and so back in time; to turn the 'inspiration line' the other way, how will current death metal vocalising inspire future generations? Will we end up with a timeline stretching from 1969's 'Court Of The Crimson King' to 2012's 'Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Vomiting' to 2020's 'Music From Airport Lavatories'?
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: September 07 2006 at 04:10 |
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It's possible... I would say that extreme metal vocal styles (both death metal's guttural growling and black metal's higher shrieking) evolved from different takes on thrash metal's agressive vocal styles (after all, pretty much all early death and black metal bands have a very sizeable amount of thrash influence in their sound and could easily be considered thrash had it not been for the evolution of their own genres), which in turn were largely inspired by punk.
That's just my opinion though.
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Peter
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Posted: September 07 2006 at 00:10 |
(I repeat) BTW, do you folks know the distorted voice at the intro to Black Sabbath's "Paranoid?" (You know, the "I am iron man" part), and the distorted vocal intro to Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man? I was thinking of them after I wrote that post yesterday -- do you think they may have inspired, or set the precedent, for today's extreme metal metal "growling" vocals? Did Crimson give birth to those vocal techniques?
 What do you think, music fans?
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 23:57 |
Abstrakt wrote:
That's not singing |
Dead on. It doesn't really proport to be, so judging it as so as useless as comparing a drum roll to a keboard solo. It's just another tool in the musical aresnal of extreme metal bands.
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tardis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: Victoria, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 14378
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 20:14 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
Car and plane crashes set to a beat?
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 16:54 |
darksinger wrote:
stop crossing your fingers behind your back |
No, I meant it.
Okay, I'll never like that kind of music or vocals, I'm sure, but neither would my grandfather have ever developed a fondness for Led Zeppelin -- I know 95% of their stuff would have been painful "noise" to him, but yet, he would not have judged me an "angry moron" just for liking it.
And again, I must wonder -- what will the future music that will irritate today's extreme metal fans sound like? I am sure it is coming (art has to keep "pushing the envelope"), but I just can't imagine what it will be. Car and plane crashes set to a beat? (I think that has been done via "industrial" music, but not to immense popularity.) Or has music gone as far as it really can in the "dissonant" direction, and will today's teens be driven up the wall when they are old by a "pendulum swing" back toward melody and silly, simple love songs ala the 50s? 
Just wondering. I find it interesting, but hard to predict!
BTW, do you folks know the distorted voice at the intro to Black Sabbath's "Paranoid?" (You know, the "I am iron man" part), and the distorted vocal intro to Crimson's 21st Century Schizoid Man? I was thinking of them after I wrote that post yesterday -- do you think they may have inspired, or set the precedent, for today's extreme metal metal "growling" vocals? Did Crimson give birth to those vocal techniques?
What do you think, music fans?
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 16:24 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
Logos wrote:
The way Peter is constantly attacking "Extreme" metal and the way he keeps on insisting that just "angry kids" listen to that stuff is just ridiculous, childish, insulting and, may I add, regressive.
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(Peter responds): Well, I could argue with some of your wording here (I don't think I am "insisting" that just angry kids listen to the stuff, but wondering if that is so), but I'll stop that, and just respond to the gist of your words:
Yes, I've bashed metal too much. It was fun -- at least for me -- for a time, but it has embroiled me in too many unnecessary fights here. I've offended too many good people, and for that, I apologise. Obviously, metal fans are no more likely to be angry or stupid than fans of any other genre. (Perhaps the only generalization we could make MIGHT be that "extreme" (your word -- no disrespect intended) metal fans are younger than classic prog fans, ON AVERAGE. It's a fairly new musical form,whereas the prog I most love tends to be a 70s thing -- the music of my youth.)
Again, sorry for the tiresome, heavy-handed blanket "bashing" -- enough! Look for an upcoming long-planned post from me -- working title "Prog Metal and I" in the near future. It will explain how (thanks to folks here, especially our Bryan) my thinking has favourably evolved -- (progressed?) on this issue. Stay tuned!
****************************************************************************
Okay, you don't like it. Fine. We get it. We already got that a long time ago. But please, stop acting like you're looking at this 100% objectively and have the ability and the right to judge what is "Good art" and what is not. *****************************************************************
Okay, acknowledged, I was not objective. Mea culpa!
Honestly, I never thought or meant to imply that I had that "right" or "ability." If you re-read my post, you'll see that I throw out the question for discussion: Is there "bad" art? Can that "bad" status be objectively ascertained? Does art need an audience? I posed the question(s) precisely because I was coming around to a more moderate, tolerant point of view, and because I am inclined to think -- as you might agree -- that the answer to all three is NO. I don't mean to set myself up as an expert on art or music (I'm just a fan) but merely wanted a calm, reasoned discussion of what, to me, are interesting questions about the nature, diversity and "purpose" of art.
*******************************************************************
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Remember, in the end, it's just music we are fighting over here (but we're hopefully not fighting any more)! Let's remember that, and keep this in perspective -- I'm not the antichrist, and neither, perhaps was that young man with the (to me) very unusual singing style!
I do think and care about other's feelings, my behaviour and how I am perceived, and I acknowledge when I am wrong, or when I needlessly offend others. I did not feel too good about that original post, upon walking home, and I apologise for my seeming disrespect and "baiting" of metal fans here once more.
I intend to do much less of it -- if any!
As Maani would say:
PEACE! |
stop crossing your fingers behind your back
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 16:23 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
Logos wrote:
The way Peter is constantly attacking "Extreme" metal and the way he keeps on insisting that just "angry kids" listen to that stuff is just ridiculous, childish, insulting and, may I add, regressive.
***************************************************************************
(Peter responds): Well, I could argue with some of your wording here (I don't think I am "insisting" that just angry kids listen to the stuff, but wondering if that is so), but I'll stop that, and just respond to the gist of your words:
Yes, I've bashed metal too much. It was fun -- at least for me -- for a time, but it has embroiled me in too many unnecessary fights here. I've offended too many good people, and for that, I apologise. Obviously, metal fans are no more likely to be angry or stupid than fans of any other genre. (Perhaps the only generalization we could make MIGHT be that "extreme" (your word -- no disrespect intended) metal fans are younger than classic prog fans, ON AVERAGE. It's a fairly new musical form,whereas the prog I most love tends to be a 70s thing -- the music of my youth.)
Again, sorry for the tiresome, heavy-handed blanket "bashing" -- enough! Look for an upcoming long-planned post from me -- working title "Prog Metal and I" in the near future. It will explain how (thanks to folks here, especially our Bryan) my thinking has favourably evolved -- (progressed?) on this issue. Stay tuned!
****************************************************************************
Okay, you don't like it. Fine. We get it. We already got that a long time ago. But please, stop acting like you're looking at this 100% objectively and have the ability and the right to judge what is "Good art" and what is not.*****************************************************************
Okay, acknowledged, I was not objective. Mea culpa!
Honestly, I never thought or meant to imply that I had that "right" or "ability." If you re-read my post, you'll see that I throw out the question for discussion: Is there "bad" art? Can that "bad" status be objectively ascertained? Does art need an audience? I posed the question(s) precisely because I was coming around to a more moderate, tolerant point of view, and because I am inclined to think -- as you might agree -- that the answer to all three is NO. I don't mean to set myself up as an expert on art or music (I'm just a fan) but merely wanted a calm, reasoned discussion of what, to me, are interesting questions about the nature, diversity and "purpose" of art.
*******************************************************************
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Remember, in the end, it's just music we are fighting over here (but we're hopefully not fighting any more)! Let's remember that, and keep this in perspective -- I'm not the antichrist, and neither, perhaps was that young man with the (to me) very unusual singing style!
I do think and care about other's feelings, my behaviour and how I am perceived, and I acknowledge when I am wrong, or when I needlessly offend others. I did not feel too good about that original post, upon walking home, and I apologise for my seeming disrespect and "baiting" of metal fans here once more.
I intend to do much less of it -- if any!
As Maani would say:
PEACE! |
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 15:14 |
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My favorite black metal singer has to be Shagrath from Dimmu Borgir. Love the way he growls and his variety of growls. His best album is probably Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia. Excellent album!!!
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 15:11 |
Logos wrote:
The way Peter is constantly attacking "Extreme" metal and the way he keeps on insisting that just "angry kids" listen to that stuff is just ridiculous, childish, insulting and, may I add, regressive.
***************************************************************************
(Peter responds): Well, I could argue with some of your wording here (I don't think I am "insisting" that just angry kids listen to the stuff, but wondering if that is so), but I'll stop that, and just respond to the gist of your words:
Yes, I've bashed metal too much. It was fun -- at least for me -- for a time, but it has embroiled me in too many unnecessary fights here. I've offended too many good people, and for that, I apologise. Obviously, metal fans are no more likely to be angry or stupid than fans of any other genre. (Perhaps the only generalization we could make MIGHT be that "extreme" (your word -- no disrespect intended) metal fans are younger than classic prog fans, ON AVERAGE. It's a fairly new musical form,whereas the prog I most love tends to be a 70s thing -- the music of my youth.)
Again, sorry for the tiresome, heavy-handed blanket "bashing" -- enough! Look for an upcoming long-planned post from me -- working title "Prog Metal and I" in the near future. It will explain how (thanks to folks here, especially our Bryan) my thinking has favourably evolved -- (progressed?) on this issue. Stay tuned!
****************************************************************************
Okay, you don't like it. Fine. We get it. We already got that a long time ago. But please, stop acting like you're looking at this 100% objectively and have the ability and the right to judge what is "Good art" and what is not.*****************************************************************
Okay, acknowledged, I was not objective. Mea culpa!
Honestly, I never thought or meant to imply that I had that "right" or "ability." If you re-read my post, you'll see that I throw out the question for discussion: Is there "bad" art? Can that "bad" status be objectively ascertained? Does art need an audience? I posed the question(s) precisely because I was coming around to a more moderate, tolerant point of view, and because I am inclined to think -- as you might agree -- that the answer to all three is NO. I don't mean to set myself up as an expert on art or music (I'm just a fan) but merely wanted a calm, reasoned discussion of what, to me, are interesting questions about the nature, diversity and "purpose" of art.
*******************************************************************
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Remember, in the end, it's just music we are fighting over here (but we're hopefully not fighting any more)! Let's remember that, and keep this in perspective -- I'm not the antichrist, and neither, perhaps was that young man with the (to me) very unusual singing style!
I do think and care about other's feelings, my behaviour and how I am perceived, and I acknowledge when I am wrong, or when I needlessly offend others. I did not feel too good about that original post, upon walking home, and I apologise for my seeming disrespect and "baiting" of metal fans here once more.
I intend to do much less of it -- if any!
As Maani would say:
PEACE!
Edited by Peter Rideout - September 06 2006 at 15:31
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
|
|
tardis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: Victoria, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 14378
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 14:17 |
On that note... GROWWWWLLLAARRRAAARRRSSHHSHSRRAAAASAAATAAANNNRAAAARRAAAAABLOOOODDDDDDCCCCCUUUTTINGRAAASRSSSHHHHHHH (ducks and hides)
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 08:11 |
The way Peter is constantly attacking "Extreme" metal and the way he keeps on insisting that just "angry kids" listen to that stuff is just ridiculous, childish, insulting and, may I add, regressive. Okay, you don't like it. Fine. We get it. We already got that a long time ago. But please, stop acting like you're looking at this 100% objectively and have the ability and the right to judge what is "Good art" and what is not. 
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 05 2006 at 21:24 |
Bryan wrote:
Peter Rideout wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Me thinks someone took the bait
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Hook, line and stinker....
But you didn't use this little guy:
 Wah!
Anyway, I still say that stuff is FUNNY, in a painful kind of way. Assuming someone much younger than me, still -- how can anyone take vocals like that seriously?  Does it just relect and reinforce a very bleak, angry state of mind (is it cathartic, perhaps), or do kids only get into that stuff to shock and piss off their parents? Is it a case of "it feels good when I stop"?
Also seriously, if each generation comes up with art to rebel against and shock the previous one, then what, in gawd's name, will the kids of peole who like that stuff come up with? Is my "vomiting into a mic" concept really that far fetched? How about singing out one's arse?
Wtih art, can we never fairly say 'No, sorry, that's total CRAP"? (We say such things about lots of pop here all the time.)
Debate, folks: can art objectively be "bad?" What if it finds no audience? Does it need one? |
The thing about black metal (and extreme metal in general for that matter) is that it's an extremely esoteric style of music. The vocal style will seem outrageous to those who don't "get it", but for those few who can appreciate the style, we wouldn't want them to sing any other way. Extreme metal vocals are entirely inclined towards the style of music being played, I don't view it necessarily as a childish expression of anger or hatred in any way, and would even go so far as to say that I find them genuinely beautiful on certain occasions (early Ulver and Borknagar probably being the best examples). I had very much the same reaction as you did when I first heard them Peter, but I couldn't possibly see many of the bands I appreciate using any other type of vocals, it simply wouldn't fit them as well. It doesn't surprise me that you react this way to them, you're DEFINITELY not alone, but to those of us who actually do listen to this sort of thing there's FAR more to them than just angry, noisy bellowing.
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agree entirely-black metal and death metal require intense vocals. alot of it, though, sounds better when that sort of vocals is accompanied by music that is equally fast and extreme. what is lame with that kid is that he nearly hawks up a loogie in the process...
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Who says Black Metal singers suck?
