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Melomaniac 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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 Topic: Dream Theater or Symphony X
Posted: August 01 2006 at 14:12 |
[/QUOTE] Listen to "Under a Glass Moon" and then listen to "Divine Wings of Tragedy" no the album is not a complete ripoff, but the choppy guitar rythmns and the choruses are blatently taken from that song. Maybe with different vocal patterns are different, there is an awful lot of matierial that Symphony X has taken from that song.
I really like more "epic" and "softer" Symphony X songs like "The Accolade", "Lady of the Snow", and "Communion and the Oracle", but I really don't care for their metal songs like "Of Sins and Shadows" at all.
I hate to break it to you, but I have heard Symphony X, I have five or their albums, and I can easily make a case why they are more metal than prog. [/QUOTE]
My apologies, it is true that Symphony X are more metal than prog. Would the category 'Symphonic Power Prog Metal' be suitable? I think so, as they have power metal elements which DT don't have, and I know that power metal can be gruesome to some. They have enough prog elements to be compared to DT though.
Peace !
Edited by Melomaniac - August 01 2006 at 14:13
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 13:14 |
 Melomaniac wrote:
AtLossForWords wrote:
micky wrote:
strangely enough... Symphony X.... heard only one song that was sent to me as a sample a couple of years ago. Never heard anything else but I liked what I heard.. .which put it miles above DT.
Symphony X for micky 
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You've told me you like metal before, and Symphony X is definately more metal and less prog than Dream Theater.
For a metal fan, I could easily see how Symphony X would be favored, but for a sophisticated listener of progressive music such as yourself, I don't understand why you wouldn't enjoy Dream Theater more.
Note-99% of Symphony X's heavy guitar rythmns are stolen from the intro of Dream Theater's "Under a Glass Moon" on Images and Words. |
You sound like someone who has never even heard Symphony X and cannot accept the fact that some might prefer them over DT... as if six albums worth of heavy prog material could be taken from one riff ? COME ON, GIVE UP THE FAN BOY ATTITUDE, you prefer DT, fine with me, they are still better than the majority of crap that passes for music nowadays and deserve their rightful place among prog metal greats (being the originators of that style), but to each his own. I might have become a DT basher, but not a DT Fan basher... yet ! 
Peace ! |
Listen to "Under a Glass Moon" and then listen to "Divine Wings of Tragedy" no the album is not a complete ripoff, but the choppy guitar rythmns and the choruses are blatently taken from that song. Maybe with different vocal patterns are different, there is an awful lot of matierial that Symphony X has taken from that song.
I really like more "epic" and "softer" Symphony X songs like "The Accolade", "Lady of the Snow", and "Communion and the Oracle", but I really don't care for their metal songs like "Of Sins and Shadows" at all.
I hate to break it to you, but I have heard Symphony X, I have five or their albums, and I can easily make a case why they are more metal than prog.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 11:28 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
micky wrote:
strangely enough... Symphony X.... heard only one song that was sent to me as a sample a couple of years ago. Never heard anything else but I liked what I heard.. .which put it miles above DT.
Symphony X for micky
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You've told me you like metal before, and Symphony X is definately more metal and less prog than Dream Theater.
For a metal fan, I could easily see how Symphony X would be favored, but for a sophisticated listener of progressive music such as yourself, I don't understand why you wouldn't enjoy Dream Theater more.
Note-99% of Symphony X's heavy guitar rythmns are stolen from the intro of Dream Theater's "Under a Glass Moon" on Images and Words. |
You sound like someone who has never even heard Symphony X and cannot accept the fact that some might prefer them over DT... as if six albums worth of heavy prog material could be taken from one riff ? COME ON, GIVE UP THE FAN BOY ATTITUDE, you prefer DT, fine with me, they are still better than the majority of crap that passes for music nowadays and deserve their rightful place among prog metal greats (being the originators of that style), but to each his own. I might have become a DT basher, but not a DT Fan basher... yet !
Peace !
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 22:35 |
Jeff Schu wrote:
micky wrote:
strangely enough... Symphony X.... heard
only one song that was sent to me as a sample a couple of years ago.
Never heard anything else but I liked what I heard.. .which put it
miles above DT.
Symphony X for micky
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Way to have a sound opinion of a whole band's career on only one song Mikey. Wait a minute... Didn't i send you that song???
--------
Have you been listening to that DT album Mikey??? I'm gonna be keeping tabs on you |
hahah.... I did say my opinion was based on only one song hahha... I
did like it and I think it was you... or Troy Ponce. it was a
long time ago haha. I left my mp3 player at home this morning.. I
overslept and was late to work hahaha. I'll do double duty
tomorrow..
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Jeff Schu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 394
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 22:30 |
micky wrote:
strangely enough... Symphony X.... heard only one song that was sent to me as a sample a couple of years ago. Never heard anything else but I liked what I heard.. .which put it miles above DT.
Symphony X for micky
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Way to have a sound opinion of a whole band's career on only one song Mikey. Wait a minute... Didn't i send you that song???
--------
Have you been listening to that DT album Mikey??? I'm gonna be keeping tabs on you
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 22:13 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
micky wrote:
strangely enough... Symphony X....
heard only one song that was sent to me as a sample a couple of years
ago. Never heard anything else but I liked what I heard.. .which put it
miles above DT.
Symphony X for micky
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You've told me you like metal before, and Symphony X is definately more metal and less prog than Dream Theater.
For a metal fan, I could easily see how Symphony X would be
favored, but for a sophisticated listener of progressive music such as
yourself, I don't understand why you wouldn't enjoy Dream Theater more.
Note-99% of Symphony X's heavy guitar rythmns are stolen from the
intro of Dream Theater's "Under a Glass Moon" on Images and Words. |
I'm really at a loss to describe my metal... likes and dislikes...
it's like love.... you don't really choose... it chooses you...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:51 |
micky wrote:
strangely enough... Symphony X.... heard only one song that was sent to me as a sample a couple of years ago. Never heard anything else but I liked what I heard.. .which put it miles above DT.
Symphony X for micky
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You've told me you like metal before, and Symphony X is definately more metal and less prog than Dream Theater.
For a metal fan, I could easily see how Symphony X would be favored, but for a sophisticated listener of progressive music such as yourself, I don't understand why you wouldn't enjoy Dream Theater more.
Note-99% of Symphony X's heavy guitar rythmns are stolen from the intro of Dream Theater's "Under a Glass Moon" on Images and Words.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:07 |
strangely enough... Symphony X.... heard only one song that was sent to
me as a sample a couple of years ago. Never heard anything else but I
liked what I heard.. .which put it miles above DT.
Symphony X for micky
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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sbrushfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1177
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 17:39 |
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Dream Theater. I have THE ODYSSEY and THE DIVINE WINGS OF TRAGEDY by SymX, and as much as I like 'em, they seem to come off as crass DT clones.
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Some world views are spacious, and some are merely spaced...
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Arrrghus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5296
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 15:00 |
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I bought the Divine Wings of Tragedy, and it was the only real disappointment I've had for an album that I've purchased. Meanwhile, I love DT and have half of their albums (Images and Words, Awake, Scenes from a Memory, and Octavarium). Soon I'll buy Six Degrees...
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Open-Mind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1800
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 21:10 |
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DT
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"I'm on a roll, I'm on a roll this time, I feel my luck could change.. "
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:47 |
stonebeard wrote:
AtLossForWords wrote:
Tony
R wrote:
Mickey wrote:
it's a shame how some people can't differentiate
between an homage or outright stealing. |
Sources have informed me that the follow up to Octavarium is titled "Plagiarism."
Although under oath I might admit to making that one up....
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Quite a speedy informant you have there.
Is this him?
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the URL has "reedlover" in it.  |
*micky spills tea in lap having given up beer because of mass wasteage*
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:45 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Mickey wrote:
it's a shame how some people can't differentiate between an homage or outright stealing. |
Sources have informed me that the follow up to Octavarium is titled "Plagiarism."
Although under oath I might admit to making that one up....
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Quite a speedy informant you have there.
Is this him?
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the URL has "reedlover" in it.
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:42 |
Tony R wrote:
Mickey wrote:
it's a shame how some people can't differentiate between an homage or outright stealing. |
Sources have informed me that the follow up to Octavarium is titled "Plagiarism."
Although under oath I might admit to making that one up....
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Quite a speedy informant you have there.
Is this him?
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:36 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:30 |
Mickey wrote:
it's a shame how some people can't differentiate between an homage or outright stealing. |
Sources have informed me that the follow up to Octavarium is titled "Plagiarism."
Although under oath I might admit to making that one up....
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:24 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
I know it may be hard to legally acquire scores to Dream Theater
and Pink Floyd/Muse/whatever band's music that Dream Theater so
obviously plagiarized, but if your going to condemn them and brush off
songs because the band OBVIOUSLY STOLE music from other bands (Who surely didn't borrow ideas they
liked from other bands. Heaven forbid!!!), you better be able to prove
it. Or maybe it's just a simple case of Dream Theater writing a song
without doing something radically new and just making enjoyable music (enjoyable if you didn't know it was Dream Theater beforehand, that is....)? |
Great post Stony, but I think it's more that Dream Theater took
influence from those particular bands and songs, and that is very
apparent on Octavarium. That's why they have to whole lyrical
section in the middle of the title track. Octavarium was their
eighth album and 20th anniversary album, and they wanted to make an
album that shows where a lot of their influence comes from. The
album is somewhat of a tribute to certain bands like Genesis, Pink
Floyd, and etc. There are some similar ideas that both bands
used, but it's very hard to make a case that any songs are plagarized. |
it's a shame how some people can't differentiate between an homage or outright stealing.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:22 |
stonebeard wrote:
I know it may be hard to legally acquire scores to Dream Theater and Pink Floyd/Muse/whatever band's music that Dream Theater so obviously plagiarized, but if your going to condemn them and brush off songs because the band OBVIOUSLY STOLE music from other bands (Who surely didn't borrow ideas they liked from other bands. Heaven forbid!!!), you better be able to prove it. Or maybe it's just a simple case of Dream Theater writing a song without doing something radically new and just making enjoyable music (enjoyable if you didn't know it was Dream Theater beforehand, that is....)? |
Great post Stony, but I think it's more that Dream Theater took influence from those particular bands and songs, and that is very apparent on Octavarium. That's why they have to whole lyrical section in the middle of the title track. Octavarium was their eighth album and 20th anniversary album, and they wanted to make an album that shows where a lot of their influence comes from. The album is somewhat of a tribute to certain bands like Genesis, Pink Floyd, and etc. There are some similar ideas that both bands used, but it's very hard to make a case that any songs are plagarized.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:21 |
stonebeard wrote:
^ If you can make a claim that they stole a song and committed plagiarism,
prove it. Provide links to scores of the songs that they plagiarized as
well as the score for the song that is suspect so I can compare the
two. I am intrigued by this, because so many people say that they
copied music on Octavarium.
Common examples:
"Oh, the intro to "Octavarium is such a rip-off of Pink Floyd."
--Which song? "Shine On" you might say. Do you really, truly think
they ripped off that song? Just because a guitar solos over airy synth
chords does not mean anybody is plagiarizing anybody!!! Ever think that
Dream Theater liked how that sounded. If nobody did anything like any
other kind of music, then Fantomas and Mr. Bungle would be the
only artists not quilty of plagiarism!!!!
"Oh, the intro to "Never Enough" sounds exactly like Muse."
--Do you ever think that maybe Muse needs to get a different sound
or do something different if just 13 seconds of a Dream Theater song
can be attributed to a band's entire catelog!!!
I know it may be hard to legally acquire scores to Dream Theater
and Pink Floyd/Muse/whatever band's music that Dream Theater so
obviously plagiarized, but if your going to condemn them and brush off
songs because the band OBVIOUSLY STOLE music from other bands (Who surely didn't borrow ideas they
liked from other bands. Heaven forbid!!!), you better be able to prove
it. Or maybe it's just a simple case of Dream Theater writing a song
without doing something radically new and just making enjoyable music (enjoyable if you didn't know it was Dream Theater beforehand, that is....)? |
whoa... seriously claims indeed...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 20:04 |
^ If you can make a claim that they stole a song and committed plagiarism, prove it. Provide links to scores of the songs that they plagiarized as well as the score for the song that is suspect so I can compare the two. I am intrigued by this, because so many people say that they copied music on Octavarium.
Common examples:
"Oh, the intro to "Octavarium is such a rip-off of Pink Floyd."
--Which song? "Shine On" you might say. Do you really, truly think they ripped off that song? Just because a guitar solos over airy synth chords does not mean anybody is plagiarizing anybody!!! Ever think that Dream Theater liked how that sounded. If nobody did anything like any other kind of music, then Fantomas and Mr. Bungle would be the only artists not quilty of plagiarism!!!!
"Oh, the intro to "Never Enough" sounds exactly like Muse."
--Do you ever think that maybe Muse needs to get a different sound or do something different if just 13 seconds of a Dream Theater song can be attributed to a band's entire catelog!!!
I know it may be hard to legally acquire scores to Dream Theater and Pink Floyd/Muse/whatever band's music that Dream Theater so obviously plagiarized, but if your going to condemn them and brush off songs because the band OBVIOUSLY STOLE music from other bands (Who surely didn't borrow ideas they liked from other bands. Heaven forbid!!!), you better be able to prove it. Or maybe it's just a simple case of Dream Theater writing a song without doing something radically new and just making enjoyable music (enjoyable if you didn't know it was Dream Theater beforehand, that is....)?
Edited by stonebeard - July 30 2006 at 20:06
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Dream Theater or Symphony X
