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oliverstoned 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
 Topic: VinylPosted: January 29 2006 at 05:31 |
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Unfortunatly, the sound quality of Akarma vynils (and most cds to) is very bad. It's (bad) digital.
Edited by oliverstoned |
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listennow801
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1819 |
Posted: January 29 2006 at 04:18 |
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I've recently learned that Akarma, an Italian label, releases a lot of classic Italian prog on Vinyl. The LPs are supposed to be really nice 180 gr. vinyl, but quite expensive. [I've only recently begun exploring 70s It. prog., and there's some friggin' great stuff out there! Wondrous to these longing ears...] Check out Edited by listennow801 |
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Ratings of Lady Gnosis: http://www.gnosis2000.net/raterclaire.shtml |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 18 2006 at 05:53 |
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That's a pleasure.
I highly recommend these speakers. M71i was my former ones. I used it with high end equipment and a sub. But i had to change when i upgraded my Nad CD for a big digital set up (Sonic frontiers drive + Goldmund converter with Nordost cable). So, i've upgraded to M32i model now and i am very happy. Mission does very musical speakers at ridiculous low price. English are the king of the cheap musical products... Edited by oliverstoned |
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IcedSabbath
Forum Groupie 
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 87 |
Posted: January 17 2006 at 17:52 |
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Very cool! Thanks for the links & info. |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 16 2006 at 12:17 |
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Salut Sean!
Yes, I did it and it works. Indeed, to dry it is not that easy, but is possible with a fan for example, or dry it with a very soft, non abrasive cloth. As soon as you find the good way to proceed, it’s easy. The receipt i gave works. Distilled water is used cause it’s chalky free and should not let anything. About the soap, I must precise to use neutral soap (it exists) without detergent, the simplest formula, which doesn’t let anything on the record after drying. If you don’t trust this formula, try the “Metanac” kind of products which is easier to use (you put the product, then gently wipes with the felt brush and it evaporates instantly, giving a shining “new” record) so no drying issue, but it’s more expensive than the house receipt… When you don’t clean your records, and if it contains dirt in the grooves -which is very often the case-, the stylus unstucks it, it heats in contact to the stylus, then it “cooks”, becomes harder as it burns, and eventually damages both stylus and all the records you’ll play on your turntable then. Of course, it ruins the sound on playback as there are big impurities between the stylus and the groove. That what you’d see by observing it through a microscope. The cartridge cleaning liquid is efficient and easy to use. It’s designed to not let any residue layer on the stylus surface. In the 70's/80's there was a more sophisticated product (and better than any liquid) which unstuck the dirt by ultra sonic frequencies, so without any physical contact. It’s unfortunately unavailable on the market now. I don’t even allude to the fact that the cartridge get magnetized, and so needs demagnetization from times to times, like tapedeck heads does. As you said, a good stylus can last very long before needing replacment. Edited by oliverstoned |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
Posted: January 16 2006 at 11:04 |
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Salut Olivier,
You actually wash your records? I have friends who tried that and destroyede them even though they were careful. Even with your special liquid, the problem I always feared is proper drying. How do you manage that, even with alcohol and distilled water, the water will leave residues? furthermore I would never use soap, because it leaves a film even if in minute quantities as you suggest. I never did more than the proper-product moistened felt brush and never thought of more. I have a friend who tried air cleaning through a three bar guns, but I have always been reluctant in case there are impurities in the air. As for the stylus (the lecture head, sinse the cartridge is the whole head including the moving coils), I have never washed it either. just used the brush that accompagnied the felt brush. I had during the 70's and 80's a Shure cartrige (never had but one in my canadian years), and only replaced the stylus once. I am waiting for next year to buy a good turtable, but by all means, no emergency.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 16 2006 at 05:51 |
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Your question is not strange, but clever.
Indeed, with CD, you must always clean from the center to the edge, as it's the direction in which the informations are written. With vynil, you must clean following the groove direction, which is not from the center to the edges, but simply lateraly, turning aroud the center, like pictured on the Metanac picture: 
The product amount to use will be precised on the product's instructions and also the way to proceed. Note that this kind of products has a double action: it cleans, removes all the dirt and also removes static electricity. It's designed to evaporate and not let anything on the record's surface. Feel free to ask all the questions you want either by PM or through this thread. About a whole system, cheap but musical, i've think about a great combination for you, featuring: A Nad or a Rotel integrated amp, a pair of Boston or Mission bookshelf speakers on Atacama feet, QED cables, any CD player from the following brands: Nad, Rotel, Arcam, Naim, Creek, Rega... If you're interested in High fidelity, you can read the best audiophile magazine, which is the american one : "Stereophile" who talks much about vynil, BTW. Don't believe all they say (they make errors sometimes), but they are quite reliable in their products appreciations. 
You can also have a look at their website: http://www.stereophile.com For example, there's an article explaining what a 200 dollars (new) pair of Mission M71 can does...interesting for you 
http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/511/ Edited by oliverstoned |
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IcedSabbath
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 87 |
Posted: January 15 2006 at 10:56 |
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Awesome info, thanks a lot. When applying the liquid to the record, I'm guessing you just apply a small amount? Also, it doesn't matter in which direction you clean the surface (for instance, rubbing the cloth clockwise around the vinyl, counter clockwise, or down from the center in straight lines)? I know that with CDs, it's suggested to rub the cloth from the center, downwards in a straight line. (Sorry if that question sounds a little strange, but it was hard for me to word it properly.) |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 15 2006 at 05:32 |
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First, i told you BS in my previous answer, when i said that your Sony turntable may damage your records. As long as the cartridge is not used, there's no matter. Just know that it'll get used sooner than an good one would.
But for the moment, you can quietly listen to it. MAIN TIPS FOR KEEPING AND CLEANING VYNILS First, a tool to use each time you play your record, is the felt brush, like the one pictured below. It's much better than the cloth cause it doesn't loose it hairs. This kind of brush removes both dust and static electricity. There's no specific brand, but the one provided with the "Metanac" (see further, and picture below) is good. TO CLEAN THE VYNILS: There are many products. The "Metanac" is a good and efficient product that you simply apply directly on the record with the felt brush. Another way is to do his own cleaning liquid, proceeding as follow: -1/3 90°c alcohol -2/3 distilled water -A few drops of neutral soap (without detergent, very important). You have to wash your records with that liquid, using a soft matter to softly rub, or throwing the liquid on the vynil using a kind of water gun. Then there's the drying issue, which is to find a way to remove water without adding hairs by rubbing with a cloth. Then, for the cartridge keeping, there are two things: -Cartridge demagnetizer (any brand, make a search on the net). You have to do it from times to times. -Cartidge stylus cleaner liquid (any brand, make a search on the net). You have to do it from times to times. Here are the main products to start, considering that there are many products, solutions for it. There are even sophisticated and expensive records cleaner machines. Metanac record cleaning product with its felt brush: Edited by oliverstoned |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 14 2006 at 03:48 |
...and you can't imagine yet how a good system can let the emotion and music flows ( i don't even talk about the performances: low, high, dynamic, transparency, image, precense), and simply does music. Look for a pair of Mission bookshelf or even Boston, as you're in the USA and a Nad or a Rotel amp, it'll be great and cheap to start. Moreover, you have the chance to live in the land of Hifi with so much great brands/products. It'll not difficult to get good devices, used ones for example. The magic of Hifi is that you'll re-discover records you believe to know by heart. Cause you'll hear things you have never heard on it, and it'll be better than the first time you heard it. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 13 2006 at 16:18 |
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Generally I find eBay to be quite good for vinyl - I've bought the odd turkey, but overall, the bargains outweigh those; I got a nice First Press of Sgt Pepper for £40. Seems like a lot of money, but it was near mint - and the book value is twice that. First pressings of albums always sound better than later pressings - especially UK and even more Japanese pressings, because they used better quality vinyl in earlier presses (thick vinyl allows for greater dynamic - hence the recent obsession with 180g repressings). Not only that, but the parts used in the manufacturing process (stampers, mothers, etc) wear down with use, and the end result degrades slightly - so the earlier the better. They tended to press about 1,000 copies of an album from each stamper - that's how quickly wear set in. I wouldn't worry about mothers and stampers unless you have true engineer's ears and a bottomless wallet, however... /ends ramble.
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IcedSabbath
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 87 |
Posted: January 13 2006 at 15:44 |
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Awesome. I'd love to get a hi-fi system set up, eventually. Since music is such an important aspect of my life, I always want to maximize my listening enjoyment, so I'm willing to upgrade my system considerably to do so. It will take me a couple of years, but I do plan on having a good set-up. Yes, I have bought some vinyl on ebay already, and generally I'm happy with the results! |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 13 2006 at 05:37 |
The Rega3 is available in a wide range of colours 
Please have a look at the Rega website to see all details: http://www.rega.co.uk/html/p3.htm You can also search for big lots of records, buy a whole collection to a tidy person who stored them well, had a good turntable. And by buying big quantities, it's cheaper per vynil. Of course, you need a little cash. Meurglyss seems to make good deals on E bay. You can try this also. Don't be afraid about the shipping, they use special rigid envelopes designed for it. Tommorow, i'll post a list of all cleaning/keeping products and the receipt to clean your records. And if you want to know more about how to assemble a great system with the smallest budget, please have a look at this thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6876&P N=1&TPN=1 Take your time...but make the good choice. It can change your whole life like it did for me
Edited by oliverstoned |
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Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 03 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: January 12 2006 at 20:50 |
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You'd be surprised, but I have bought almost all of my vinyl on eBay
and every album I have received is in great condition, I've had
hardly any problems. One time, a record broke in transit, and I
was refunded immediately! I find that sellers (at least the ones I deal
with) undergrade rather than overgrade the condition of the vinyl.
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty |
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IcedSabbath
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 87 |
Posted: January 12 2006 at 20:43 |
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Wow man, that green turntable is spiffy. Yeah, I realize that finding vinyl in good condition will be a problem. I just received my double live Marillion LP and it's popping quite a bit. However, some albums I have that are over 20 years old play very well. I just plan on buying as much as I can and hoping for the best. I have no problem buying multiple copies of the same album, to seek out the best conditioned one. |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 12 2006 at 18:08 |
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It's a pleasure to help you, don't be sorry
I'll give you soon in detail all the products names for cleaning and keeping and the receipt to wash your vynils. To clean the cartridge, an affordable and efficient solution is the cleaning liquid. You put one drop on the stylus and it removes the dirt. It's not very expensive. To search for good condition vynils is a difficult quest, especially for (prog)rock genre, cause people were not very tidy when using it, moreover many records are torn by bad cartridges. But you will find pearls also and it'll fantastic. I'll get some more info to a real expert, but eventually i'm not that sure that a Sony cartridge like yours will not wear more the records than a good one...be careful. A good cartridge can last 10 years or more of intensive use. I think the Sony will wear very much faster. Sorry by "fit", i meant to adjust well the arm and cartridge . It's easy to do on The Rega 3 and it stays well adjusted, even if you move the turntable. The Rega 3 has a very simple -but highly efficient- design. If you look well, you can get one for 300 dollars. That's nothing for such a fantastic source that you can keep all your life, and will give you so much pleasure. If you look for music, a very useful investment would also be a Nad amp, a pair of Mission bookshelf speakers (+ feet and cables). I let you meditate this ... 
RB300 ARM 
Edited by oliverstoned |
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IcedSabbath
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 87 |
Posted: January 12 2006 at 15:50 |
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I figured that cleaning my vinyls would be pretty important, so I ordered an anti-static cloth a couple of days ago. However, I'm not sure if this will be enough...any help you may be able to give on the cleaning of the vinyl would be greatly appreciated! Cleaning the cartridge, though...I never thought of that! What sort of cleaning tool would I use to do that? In this thread I did notice the mention of the Rega Planar 3 many times...I wasn’t sure EXACTLY what it was, though, or its specs. Hopefully I’ll be able to scrounge up some cash to buy one, though it won’t be for a little while. In the meantime, my main concern is keeping my LPs in maximum condition while playing them on my (inferior!) Sony system. If I clean the records and the stylus, I won’t have to worry about their condition, I’m hoping? Concerning the Rega...When you say it’s very easy to fit…what exactly do you mean by that? Judging from the picture, it seems like it needs to be…fit into a pre-existing table? Sorry for the ignorance, but again I’m new at this. I just turned 17, so I never had much experience with vinyl/turntables. Also, how do I know when I need to change my stylus, when I need to clean it, etc.? Thanks again man! I knew this would be the place to go for some knowledgable, seasoned vinyl experts. |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 12 2006 at 05:33 |
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So, you want something good...
One answer: Rega Planar 3 It's a fantastic turntable, very musical, which can be great even into a big system. It has the big interest to feature a good arm (RB300) and a good cartridge ("Elyss" or "Super Elyss", depends on the turntable model version). Of course a good cartridge is essential and there's no limit. But the one provided with the Rega Planar 3 is a good little one to start. Forget the Denon DL103 often quoted which is bad. Another big advantage of this turntable is that it's very easy to fit, and it doesn't unfit easily, contrary to many others ones. Then, to go further, a moving coil cartridge is needed (opposed to a moving magnet type). But you're far from being there. Get a used Rega Planar 3 at half price with its Elyss or super Elyss, you will not be disapointed. You should find some around 400 dollars  A reference since 20 years!
Know that you can easily sell back your Sony. That's not a big trouble cause you'll always find someone to buy the devices you have to sell, even if it's not that good... Edited by oliverstoned |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: January 12 2006 at 05:26 |
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Hello!
First, Sony is not a good turntable...as you expect. I don't think even a bad cartridge (in the musical sense of the term) may damage your records. What can be damageable is the fact that your record may be dirty. The dirt hidden into the grooves heats in contact with the stylus, then "cooks" and eventually damages both cartidge and records. That's why it's very important to: -Use clean records. (i'll post soon a receipt to how clean your records) -Clean your cartridge often (even more often if you use dirty records) with a dedicated product. Edited by oliverstoned |
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IcedSabbath
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 87 |
Posted: January 11 2006 at 22:42 |
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Digging through this thread and reading all of this vinyl/turntable talk is getting me excited. I just bought a turntable a couple of weeks ago. It was naturally a relatively cheap (around $100) Sony. I can appreciate the sound of a good vinyl and really hope to expand my collection (currently contains about 60 records) and build up a killer system. However, I was hoping some of you crafty audiophile-type progsters could help me out with some questions I have! Firstly, I know I have a cheap turntable, with stock stylus and such...is the stylus gonna wear down my vinyls? Should I be looking into a more expensive cartridge to replace it? I do NOT want to mess up my LPs much by playing them, since some of the records I've acquired are very dear to me. What are some good ways I could care for my vinyls? I'm new at this, as you can see, but I'm eager to learn and start building a great collection. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! |
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Vinyl
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oliverstoned wrote:
