Yeah I still buy vinyl off e-bay. You can still by 12' stuff new that's dance related but good prog? Only second hand so it seems.

BTW check out the 'currently listening to..' thread for more news and views on this subject

Buying a turntable on Sunday maybe  I can't use it till christmas though...

Do I buy vinyl?

I need some more shelves

I buy Lino.

I need some more flooring.

The main reason for buying vinyl is that First presses of albums up to the end of the 1970s sound absolutely amazing and blow their CD equivalents out of the water on a good HiFi.

The downside is, of course, that spotting scratched or defective vinyl is a bit of an art that you need to develop. Generally, if you can feel the mark with your fingers, it can cause either pops or skips, and it's the tiny ones that tend to be worst.

On (e.g.) Beatles' First Presses, the vinyl is so thick and robust that most surface marks do not cause a problem. However, there is still the problem of those really tiny (about 2-3mm) marks that are really deep and cause issues.

The Record Collector or http://www.recordcollectorsguild.org/grading2.html - Record Collector's Guild grading scales are a good way to guage records if you buy them from eBay - if you only buy records graded as Near Mint or Excellent, then you should never end up with a scratched lemon. If you do, you can leave the seller bad feedback - and most sellers will bend over backwards to avoid that.

Certif1ed wrote: Why not put it on the walls instead, for a unique, yet practical, easy-to clean and fully water-resistent wall covering that is bound to be the talking-piece of any dinner party you might hold?

Do you seriously think a man with lino issues holds dinner parties?

An easy way to tell if it's been played a lot of times is to look at the centre of the record.

Generally, the label should still look practically new - if not, it's been mishandled or improperly stored (especially if it's peeling - that indicates damp). If the label looks suspicious, put it back, no matter how much you want the LP - there will be another one somewhere else some day!

White paper showing through the coloured label around the centre hole is an indication that the LP has been put thrown onto the turntable and snatched off a few hundred times - or generally abused (you're a bit stuck if the label is white ).

Next, you may see little spidery lines around an inch or so of the centre - look at any LP you own under bright light; compare one you've hardly played with one you've thrashed to death. There will be few and faint lines on the hardly played LP, and loads of "spiders" on the thrashed one.

Check this out for a clean spindle - note the excess plastic, indicating that this LP has probably only seen a turntable from its cover, or, if it has been played, then the owner treated it like it was made of eggshells:

This puppy'll set you back a few hundred quid at least

sigod wrote: Yeah I still buy vinyl off e-bay. You can still by 12' stuff new that's dance related but good prog? Only second hand so it seems. BTW check out the 'currently listening to..' thread for more news and views on this subject

Hey I found a used record store here in California recently.  Got a pretty good copy of Point of Know Return by Kansas and had it signed by Steve Walsh the same night.  Paid $1 for it.

I have a serviceable Technics turntable, I really ought to know the model number and cartridge name, but don't offhand. I only play my FPs once - to transfer them directly to the computer I have sitting next to my HiFi, then burn them as 24-bit 96Khz audio onto DVD-R (the quality is incredibly faithful, but so is the equipment hum when you listen on headphones ).

One day I will upgrade it to a Rega and enjoy my collection properly - but I'll probably have to wait until my g/f returns to work, as the little one is quite expensive!

Vinyl rules. I prefer it over CD. The problems Redbar89 had can happen, but can be avoided by closely inspecting the vinyl, as Certif1ed recommends...It's easy. And if you can't (if you're buying it on eBay), make sure to do a couple minutes research on the seller, making sure his grading system is trustworthy, etc. If you pay $2.99, you're probably going to get a crappy piece of wax (or you just got a killer deal! I got Eela Craig's 'Hats Of Glass' for $1.99 on vinyl and it looks/sounds superb!!!)

With a nice piece of vinyl (they're out there for sure, I've got hundreds of 'em!), a nice turntable (I'm a Rega man, cuz I can't afford anything better, but Rega is still top-notch hi-end), and of course a good amp, vinyl sounds warmer, fuller, even more dynamic than CDs, imo. That's the way I hear it. It's more high maintenance, sure, but there's nothing like the sound + the artwork to really get you into that world that deep listening can access... 

Check out some of the comments I left earlier - especially about feeling marks on the surface, looking out for tiny (2-3mm) marks that run ALONG the groove, and "spider" marks on the label. oliverstoned's comments about looking for the shine are very valid - but many late 1960s LPs could take a real punishing and still sound fine.

If you're planning on collecting seriously, you'll learn simply by buying one or two turkeys - there's no better teacher than experience - so start with cheap albums and inspect any that sound scratchy for tell-tale signs.

Oh - and come back here if you're out for First Presses - I might be able to help

I got a second pressing of DSOTM from my local Oxfam shop today...

It was priced up at £3.99 - the cover's a bit worn and the posters and stickers are long gone (as usual...) - but the vinyl is PERFECT - not a crackle or pop. Being a second press, the sound is pretty close to the 1st, as DSOTM was so unexpectedly popular, the first press was a very short run, and the same mothers were used to make the second press stampers.

It sounds FANTASTIC - totally UNremastered, slightly raw, and with a presence that makes you feel like you're sat behind Alan Parsons on the mixing desk... I'm sure it must have been remastered for later pressings, as there were so many remasterings of this album - for Quad, for the Half-Speed audiophile pressings, the anniversaries, 5.1 DVD and so on... It almost sounds like a different album!

If you ever see one and the vinyl looks OK - BUY IT!; The sleeve only opens one side, and the outline triangle in the label is different (lighter blue and more solid looking). The matrix numbers end -3, as -1 was only used for the test pressings.

1973 2nd Press (note the apparent cracks around the center hole. This is quite normal for both 1st and 2nd press);

Late 1970s/early 1980s press: (Note the positioning of the word "Harvest")

1973 First Press (live in hope that you find this one!)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1593&item=4067235042&rd=1 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category =1593&item=4067235042&rd=1

Here's one...

...or try this MFSL version - the sound quality is loads better even than an FP, and I'd trust this seller;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16138&item=4067542739&rd=1 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category =16138&item=4067542739&rd=1

Failing that, I'd take a chance on this one, if I didn't already own a playable copy with all the trimmings. Expect to pay about £12.50 - i.e. make your bid £10.01 - then come back and beat me up if it sounds like bacon frying... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1593&item=4068118803&rd=1 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category =1593&item=4068118803&rd=1

Anybody know how to tell if a vinyl copy of Moving Pictures is a first pressing or otherwise? I would appreciate it. If it helps, I found it in a used record store in Boise, Idaho and the label on the record itself is blue with white lettering. It is not gatefold and the dustsleeve has pictures and credits on one side and lyrics on the others. It is Near-Mint and cost me $5.99. It plays perfect and the cover ink is still shiny.

BTW I just bought a record player: Audio Technica. Is this a good brand that will be delicate with my vinyl?

Also, how many times can vinyl be played before it is considered worn out? If a record crackles and pops, say, every 4-7 seconds but doesn't do it loudly, how much longer would you say the vinyl has before it is worn out and worthless. What is the state of the vinyl that is doing this?

I know this is a post loaded with questions, but any answers would be nice.

Hi oliverstoned...Yeh Analogue rules but dump the Rega...I have a modified Systemdek '11X' with acrylic platter lloks like an Audionote 'TT1' now & vintage battleship Syrinx 'PU2' arm wipes the floor with my old Rega '3'.

bye

HI OLIVERSTONED

Intrested in my system eh!!!!

Systemdek '11X' modified with 1" thick milky acrylic platter (perfect impedance match between platter & record)..Out board power supply.

Syrinx 'PU2' arm modified & re-wired with silver internal arm wire.

Audio Technica '0C9' moving coil cart (just fitted)

CD player 'Arcam 'CD92' (The wife's,i hate CD)

Rose industries 'RV23S' valve pre-amp + matching power amps.(Just borrowed,but might be buying).

Studer/Revox 'PR99,MK3' open reel & DBX '2XB' processor.

ARC '101' Highly modded loudspeakers with re-built outboard cross overs.All silver wired.

Cables are all silver Kimber Kable..

Mains leads all Russ Andrews (Kimber kords)

damn! I have a second press Dark Side sitting in my collection and in extraordinarily good nick. Can't remember how much I paid for it but it was years ago and couldn't have been more than three or four quid - thanks for that Cert, I found the matrix number - the etched numbers on the run-off

Still curious to know though about my genesis - had a look at the 'em the other day..

Nursery Cryme is a standard mad hatter Charisma label but my Foxtrot is weird...

It's not a gatefold and the cover is extremely heavy card but the inner label is the pink Charisma. I have a sneaking suspsicion it may be an early US pressing???

Also anyone got any clues on Tubular Bells and Phaedra both with the 'two girls' labels??

Also one version of Animals I have a picture label with handwritten titles etc and the matrix number ends in U?? The other copy is plain green Harvest made in Ireland on very heavy vinyl.

arcer wrote: Cert, this might be a daft question but what are matrix numbers and where do I find them - I have duplicate copies of DSOTM, Animals, Wish You Were Here and The Wall and am curious to check which pressings they are?? I note you've already identified your DSOTM - do the matrix numbers end -3? For a "proper" 2nd press they should. Also worth checking are the little numbers and letters dotted around the dead wax - should be something like 1 G or 5 R R M. The numbers indicate the mother from which the stamper was made - the earlier the mother the better, naturally, and the letters indicate the stamper itself. In the case of EMI, the code GRAMPHONE C LTD was used, G being first, then letters added for long runs - e.g. once D had been used, GG would be next.  The bulk of my vinyl was bought purely to obtain the record and to hear the music but I'm more and more interested in the provenance of some of the copies I have - for instance I have a pretty mint, very heavy, old Zep III that I think may be an early pressing Plum and Orange label? "Do What Thou Wilt" inscribed in the run-out? and I have immaculate copies of Ummagumma Does "EMI" appear on the label? and Who's Next Matt black "Track" label? and gatefold John Martyn Solid Air Er not sure - which label? that I'm curious about as well as several early Genesis - Nursery Cryme with the pink label? If it's not the Pink Scroll, then check the matrix number - some of the Pink Hatter labels were included among the First run, so you may have a CAS-1052-A1/B2-U. Check the sleeve - 2nd issue sleeves have the Charisma Scroll logo on the left hand side. Lastly, check for B&C Distribution credits (Marketed by B&C Records Ltd, 37 Soho Square, London) - and country of origin. If this is not apparent on the label, it should be on the sleeve. Indeed I have a ton of stuff that I would like to check out... Any advice on how to check.... Plenty - name the album and I'll do what I can Just on the checking the quality of vinyl I tend to hold them up to the light to check the surface for any major inconsistencies but it really is hard to tell - I bought a very good looking copy of Queen's News of the World years ago and took it home only to find that the first half of the first side has been destroyed somehow - the right channel just contains an unbearable hiss right the way through the opening three tracks though I have a US Elektra press of Day at the Races which looks troubled but is almost perfect - go figure

Note that from the mid-late 1970s onwards, FPs aren't that much of a big deal except to collectors, as record companies started using thinner vinyl that would appear to be of different compounds for all pressings, and the quality is lower.

I have FPs of all of Queen's albums, but have noticed little sonic difference compared to later presses.

I would guess that the channel degradation you describe is due to a chipped stylus - there are always a few issues that are hard to spot. The worst is those tiny <1mm scratches that are so deep that they cause the album to jump. Like on a First Press Led Zep II I bought - I bought another FP, but I can't bring myself to sell this one, as the rest of it plays mint.

Cheers for that Cert - will check those up tonight!

yeah the Zep is plum and orange - will check the run-off for the inscription - is it collectable?

As I said in the later post - the DSOTM matrix number ends in 3

The Animals is heavy vinyl, picture label of dog on one side (and pig on the other?)

I'll check the Ummagumma (I bought it in Germany so not sure of label......)

As far as I know the Who's Next is Polydor? but damn the thing is clean - cost me €20!! Also have a Who Are You on red vinyl and a Dire Straits Love Over Gold on white vinyl!

The John Martyn is Island but most of the copies I've seen are not gatefold so...

Also have a special edition half-speed master of Supertramp's Even in the Quietest Moment - and a Brian May Starfleet Project mini-album - any idea of rarity values?

You are now officially the site's vinyl guru

Jesus!!!!  -

a levitating yak!

that gnus to me!!

Yes!
The last 3 are:
ELP-Works Volume 1 ($5'00)
Genesis-Winds & Whutering ($1'00) & Invisible Touch ($1'00)

I think vinyl will never die.

My friend has a turntable and a good speaker setup in his room which also connects to his stereo, and I think he has about 30 albums on vinyl now (including a recently bought mint copy of Ummagumma, which I'm jealous of). Despite all their good qualities, I know he's bought several records from a music store downtown (for good money too) which have actually been defected, like the original copy of Live Dead. He checks them and everything, but I guess that's the way it goes...

I'm seriously considering getting a turntable myself, because vinyl does sound different, and the art for so many albums just blows me away. For instance, if you get Close to the Edge on CD you have to look through the little booklet to find the cool Roger Dean art, but on the record you just open it up and it's so much better. Though... I saw a copy of BSS on viynl that was very weird, with booklets in booklets, and not very practical, while the CD version was really awesome and holographic... but I read somewhere (something on H.R. Geiger's art) that the original record was holographic as well?

oliverstoned wrote: vynil easily beats cd get a rega planar 3 turntable you will not be disapointed

Hi, I have a Rega Planar 2(the one in the picture), which I'm extremely fond of (it's way better than the numerous questionable turntables I've owned in the past.)  and I wonder is Planar 3 remarkably better, or am I better off using my money on vinyl instead and keep the Planar 2?

illustrated wrote: My friend has a turntable and a good speaker setup in his room which also connects to his stereo, and I think he has about 30 albums on vinyl now (including a recently bought mint copy of Ummagumma, which I'm jealous of). Despite all their good qualities, I know he's bought several records from a music store downtown (for good money too) which have actually been defected, like the original copy of Live Dead. He checks them and everything, but I guess that's the way it goes... I'm seriously considering getting a turntable myself, because vinyl does sound different, and the art for so many albums just blows me away. For instance, if you get Close to the Edge on CD you have to look through the little booklet to find the cool Roger Dean art, but on the record you just open it up and it's so much better. Though... I saw a copy of BSS on viynl that was very weird, with booklets in booklets, and not very practical, while the CD version was really awesome and holographic... but I read somewhere (something on H.R. Geiger's art) that the original record was holographic as well?

As a 42 year old, I used to listen to  vinyls a great deal ., loved doing it and found great pleasure in sleeve artwork. But we had no choice (pre-recorded cassttes or 8-tracks were not valid choices - you might as well as made your own cassttes), that was all we had. We had to return many vinyls especially the post 73 stuff because the pressings were no good. No undue nostalgia, please: vinyl have their fair share of problems. The worst are the vinylrecord dealers asking for huge sums of money for average records in non-perfect state. (You might want to Avoid Doug Larson's vinyl section: expensive and overvalued state) 

Since the early 90's I have converted to CD, was reluctant at first but the confort of CD is what converted me. Vinyls are a pain to maintain in a good condition , to handle and every twenty mins, one has to get up to change sides or record. This meant not being too drunk or high or scratches would appear quickly.

60's and 70's music do sound different on vinyl than on cd (whether it is better is another debate), but this should make no difference for music from 83 onwards. Vinyls also takes up a lot of space.

hey lets take an look at this.. yeah great teddy also!

I've had to buy it all... trade etc...

ummagumma08 wrote: oliverstoned wrote: vynil easily beats cd get a rega planar 3 turntable you will not be disapointed   Hi, I have a Rega Planar 2(the one in the picture), which I'm extremely fond of (it's way better than the numerous questionable turntables I've owned in the past.)  and I wonder is Planar 3 remarkably better, or am I better off using my money on vinyl instead and keep the Planar 2?   http://img2.uploadimages.net/show.php?img=138262Billede045.jpg -

Lets just pull the Rega 2 down then...3/4" chipboard laminated with formica.A.C. Motor dangles from a black rubber belt (Motor mounting lugs are crudly bent over to accomidate this.Hinges if you like to call them that are cheap plastic efforts rivited to the lid,these break in time,to replace them you have to buy a new lid.Shame really as the lid is excellently made...Arm on the 'P2' is the Rega 'RB250' comes in many variants 'Moth''Thorens''Nad''Akai' badged,very overated but better sounding than the bigger 'RB300' found on the 'P3'...

Better sounding deck then:

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=922 - http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=922

oliverstoned wrote: "The Rega 3 is really better. Morever, the original cartridge ("super elyss") is a real good little cartridge.(unlike Denon DL103, for example, which is bad, despite it's famous).

I really don't no that much about hi-fi, so I'm glad that there someone qualified people to give advise. 

I don't use the cartridge originally installed on the REGA PLANAR 2, I have a friend whose mother works at the ortofon factory in Denmark therefore I got a cartridge called "OM 5E" for almost nothing, I was told it should be very good, is it? or could investment in another cartridge (within an acceptable price frame) significantly improve my listening experience?  

oliverstoned wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: ummagumma08 wrote: [QUOTE=oliverstoned>vynil easily beats cd get a rega planar 3 turntable you will not be disapointed[/QUOTE> Hi, I have a Rega Planar 2(the one in the picture), which I'm extremely fond of (it's way better than the numerous questionable turntables I've owned in the past.) and I wonder is Planar 3 remarkably better, or am I better off using my money on vinyl instead and keep the Planar 2? http://img2.uploadimages.net/show.php?img=138262Billede045.jpg - Lets just pull the Rega 2 down then...3/4" chipboard laminated with formica.A.C. Motor dangles from a black rubber belt (Motor mounting lugs are crudly bent over to accomidate this.Hinges if you like to call them that are cheap plastic efforts rivited to the lid,these break in time,to replace them you have to buy a new lid.Shame really as the lid is excellently made...Arm on the 'P2' is the Rega 'RB250' comes in many variants 'Moth''Thorens''Nad''Akai' badged,very overated but better sounding than the bigger 'RB300' found on the 'P3'... Better sounding deck then: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=922 - http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=922 False. The RB300 is an excellent arm. If you want to go further a Rega Planar 3, you have to take a Linn LP 12 with a good moving coil.

Drop this flat earth crap we had in the '80's ok Linn 'Condeks' sound awefull...Ok.So oliver then you tell me all about specialist hi-fi .It's my hobbie has been part of my living for the last 25 years.

Sean Trane wrote: illustrated wrote: My friend has a turntable and a good speaker setup in his room which also connects to his stereo, and I think he has about 30 albums on vinyl now (including a recently bought mint copy of Ummagumma, which I'm jealous of). Despite all their good qualities, I know he's bought several records from a music store downtown (for good money too) which have actually been defected, like the original copy of Live Dead. He checks them and everything, but I guess that's the way it goes... I'm seriously considering getting a turntable myself, because vinyl does sound different, and the art for so many albums just blows me away. For instance, if you get Close to the Edge on CD you have to look through the little booklet to find the cool Roger Dean art, but on the record you just open it up and it's so much better. Though... I saw a copy of BSS on viynl that was very weird, with booklets in booklets, and not very practical, while the CD version was really awesome and holographic... but I read somewhere (something on H.R. Geiger's art) that the original record was holographic as well? As a 42 year old, I used to listen to  vinyls a great deal ., loved doing it and found great pleasure in sleeve artwork. But we had no choice (pre-recorded cassttes or 8-tracks were not valid choices - you might as well as made your own cassttes), that was all we had. We had to return many vinyls especially the post 73 stuff because the pressings were no good. No undue nostalgia, please: vinyl have their fair share of problems. The worst are the vinylrecord dealers asking for huge sums of money for average records in non-perfect state. (You might want to Avoid Doug Larson's vinyl section: expensive and overvalued state)  Since the early 90's I have converted to CD, was reluctant at first but the confort of CD is what converted me. Vinyls are a pain to maintain in a good condition , to handle and every twenty mins, one has to get up to change sides or record. This meant not being too drunk or high or scratches would appear quickly. 60's and 70's music do sound different on vinyl than on cd (whether it is better is another debate), but this should make no difference for music from 83 onwards. Vinyls also takes up a lot of space.

Haha, definitely some really good points. CDs work out great but I just love the cover art for a lot of the old records. And yeah, I'm still relluctant to buy a turntable/records because of the size factor and just the inconvinience in general. The copy of Live Dead my friend bought was $18.99 (Canadian) and supposedly he checked it for scratches, but none of it played when he took it home. But on the other hand, these guys have a lot of the old King Crimson/ELP/VDGG (etc) records I want which you have to order in from other music stores. I ordered in Pawn Hearts at A & B basically at the time of the New Year and found out it had gotten delayed. The second time I went back there they said that the company was going through changes and that it was still delayed, but the man who worked there looked further into it and it turned out that it had been sent to Calgary! So it was supposed to be here in a week or two and it's been at least that (I think?) and I still haven't gotten a phone call.

oliverstoned wrote: The Rega 3 is really better. Morever, the original cartridge ("super elyss") is a real good little cartridge.(unlike Denon DL103, for example, which is bad, despite it's famous).

I went to my local used hi-fi store in Copenhagen today and asked if he had a Rega Planar 3, and that I wanted to trade with my Planar 2, he said that it would be stupid "they are identical" he said. He sells them for the same price 250 - 300 dollars approx. Now I'm confused....       

oliverstoned wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: oliverstoned wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: ummagumma08 wrote: [QUOTE=oliverstoned>vynil easily beats cd get a rega planar 3 turntable you will not be disapointed[/QUOTE> Hi, I have a Rega Planar 2(the one in the picture), which I'm extremely fond of (it's way better than the numerous questionable turntables I've owned in the past.) and I wonder is Planar 3 remarkably better, or am I better off using my money on vinyl instead and keep the Planar 2? http://img2.uploadimages.net/show.php?img=138262Billede045.jpg - Lets just pull the Rega 2 down then...3/4" chipboard laminated with formica.A.C. Motor dangles from a black rubber belt (Motor mounting lugs are crudly bent over to accomidate this.Hinges if you like to call them that are cheap plastic efforts rivited to the lid,these break in time,to replace them you have to buy a new lid.Shame really as the lid is excellently made...Arm on the 'P2' is the Rega 'RB250' comes in many variants 'Moth''Thorens''Nad''Akai' badged,very overated but better sounding than the bigger 'RB300' found on the 'P3'... Better sounding deck then: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=922 - http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=922 False. The RB300 is an excellent arm. If you want to go further a Rega Planar 3, you have to take a Linn LP 12 with a good moving coil. Drop this flat earth crap we had in the '80's ok Linn 'Condeks' sound awefull...Ok.So oliver then you tell me all about specialist hi-fi .It's my hobbie has been part of my living for the last 25 years. My hifi guru is in hifi from 35 years... sorry!

Your hi-fi guru as you have, has been brain washesd by dealers & magazines over the years.Companies such as Linn rooled the roost & reviews/dealers over the years, due to exceptional marketing skills.Rega just got in there with simular marketing skills the same, as a cheap alternative to the Linn 'Sondek'...Wake up man you've just admitted you listern to your friend,who seems to know nothing himself.

I suppose he has an equally as crap Naim system?

ummagumma08 wrote: oliverstoned wrote: The Rega 3 is really better. Morever, the original cartridge ("super elyss") is a real good little cartridge.(unlike Denon DL103, for example, which is bad, despite it's famous). I went to my local used hi-fi store in Copenhagen today and asked if he had a Rega Planar 3, and that I wanted to trade with my Planar 2, he said that it would be stupid "they are identical" he said. He sells them for the same price 250 - 300 dollars approx. Now I'm confused....

Nothing to be confused about..These companies are/were called flat earth companies.Linn.Rega etc...All marketing jibe..Ummagumma take no notice of Oliver as he should take no notice of his friend....Stick with the Rega 2 over the three,the Rega 2 arm was proven a better sound arm than the bigger P3 arm...The rega RB300 (P3) arm is very grey sounding in comarison.

oliverstoned wrote: ummagumma08 wrote: oliverstoned wrote: The Rega 3 is really better. Morever, the original cartridge ("super elyss") is a real good little cartridge.(unlike Denon DL103, for example, which is bad, despite it's famous). I went to my local used hi-fi store in Copenhagen today and asked if he had a Rega Planar 3, and that I wanted to trade with my Planar 2, he said that it would be stupid "they are identical" he said. He sells them for the same price 250 - 300 dollars approx. Now I'm confused....       <!-- Signature --> Dealers don't know what they tell. Rega3 is really better than rega2

Ok Oliver the 'P2' is better than the 'P3'!

Right the bigger RB300 arm sounds very grey over the cheaper 'RB250' ar,so thats not better arm for a start..The only difference between a Rega 'Planer2' & 'Planner3' is absolutly nothing,with exception to the 'P2' has a 3/4" chipboard plinth & the 'P3' a 1" chipboard plinth both formica laminated,'P2' has a slightly thinner Glass platter absolutly nothing else at all in difference,except from the obvious mounted arms.Everyone knows Glass sounds crap as a platter so to increase the thickness is no great brain wave.

Stop talking crap oliver.

arcer wrote: I'll take my Linn 'Condek' as Karn calls it over most every truntable I've heard and that includes an extremely expensive Clearaudio Reference which i didn't rate at all. The only turntable I've liked more was a Michell Gyrodeck. My pretty basic LP12 with a Sumiko Blue Point (which is MC and only cost about E300) sounds great. Put them through my musical fidelity XLPS and Myriad pre and powers and it sounds pretty damn good to me (though my speakers are rubbish - need something to sharpen the warmth of the Linn + Myriads)

Sorry arcer but i get very pissed off with the claims over the years that  the 'Condek' is the reference turntable to buy...No it is not at all,as i've mentioned Ivor Tiffentwitt had the market,press & dealers by the balls.The deck is absolutly no reference deck it's too coloured in sound.The 'Condek' now is nothing but an out dated design pinched from his fathers Ariston 'RD11' & Thorens 'TD150.These past upgrades he kept flogging were nothing but a con as are linn.

I have in stock at the moment a Valhalla Linn Sondek with 'Ittock' & the same with an Alphason 'HR100S' fitted all serviced ready for the next foll purchaser,i find them both poor compared to a Pink triangle 'Anniversary' fitted with Helius 'Orion' & £700 Dynavector MC i'm presently listerning to.

I would suggest you scrap the Musical Fidelity 'XLP'.The Myrads are ok but not brilliant.Just a run of the mill trendy company thought up by an EX-Arcam guy.I know this may hurt your feelings but there you go i'm sorry,i'm not saying this to wind you up but i have a feeling you've bought this kit over the years out reviews...

What's your speakers?

I agree that Linn toaday is a bad brand, and their best LP12 are from 1978. Today, there are less good.
The only good product they have is the Cd player Ikemi, the rest is mostly crap and over rated, i agree.

About my friend, he has not been wash brained, he knows to think by himself and he's one of the biggest audiophiles of the world.
He has the best devices, like marantz 10b (the best tuner of the world),several Nakamichi 1000 zxl, he has real amps like Conrad jonhson for highs and the biggest goldmund for low freq.
The biggest Mark levinson preamp, 30 000 dollars Infinity spaekers and he biggest transparent cables which is the best brand for interconnect.(120 000 dollars, just for speakers cables ("Transparent OPUS")).
Also the best Levinson drive + convert which costs 30000 dollars...
I don't even know the brand of his turntable cause it's too esoteric.
The price of his cartridge is the price of your whole system!
The result is incredible...
Nothing like a naim system or your your homemade system !!!
Do you have electric dedicated lines?

[/QUOTE]

Regardless of what age the 'Condeks' are they are still overated tosh.

I may have mentioned over the past treads at sometime i run a buisness manufacturing vintage turntable surrounds/plinths as well as buy & sell specialised audio equipment.

I am lucky enough to change my system around on a regular basis if need be.

I actually own the Marantz 10B with the day sequera display gagetry as i do own the classic Yamaha 'CT7000' tuner as well. these two in my view were probably the greatest tuners in the world & i would never part with them even though i never use them.

& a have a Nak 1000 which is a new old stock unit.as well as one for repair.also a nice 'Dragon'.

But your now going into high end gear with the mark levinson etc...most of this is very overated & seems you ears may be mis judging yourself.I've shifted a few Levinsons & agreeable are very good but i personally own a Audio reaserch 'SP9' tube pre-amp & in my view probably the best pre i've ever heard.

I have a pair of Krell 'KSA100' power amp which are excellent but at the time over priced.

Forget about esotecric deck such as Goldmund etc most sound worse than the supposid best CD players in the world & your paying for the material involved in the construction.You usually find the high tag refects on that fact that they aint gonna sell many either.

Yes i have a dedicated Ring main in my listerning room.

I have 5 'Koetsu' , 2 Kesiki,2 Lyra's'& a top of the range Benz Moving coils amongs others.

So please don't try to impress me.It's not a bragging thread.

I'm fully aware of what is overated & what is not.

Over the years of dealing with custommers buying this type of gear is the higher majority have more money than sence & are born show off's.

Expensive = not brilliant most of the time.

only the very few are the buisness.

SP9

Karnevil9 wrote: I agree that Linn toaday is a bad brand, and their best LP12 are from 1978. Today, there are less good. The only good product they have is the Cd player Ikemi, the rest is mostly crap and over rated, i agree. About my friend, he has not been wash brained, he knows to think by himself and he's one of the biggest audiophiles of the world. He has the best devices, like marantz 10b (the best tuner of the world),several Nakamichi 1000 zxl, he has real amps like Conrad jonhson for highs and the biggest goldmund for low freq. The biggest Mark levinson preamp, 30 000 dollars Infinity spaekers and he biggest transparent cables which is the best brand for interconnect.(120 000 dollars, just for speakers cables ("Transparent OPUS")). Also the best Levinson drive + convert which costs 30000 dollars... I don't even know the brand of his turntable cause it's too esoteric. The price of his cartridge is the price of your whole system! The result is incredible... Nothing like a naim system or your your homemade system !!! Do you have electric dedicated lines?

Regardless of what age the 'Condeks' are they are still overated tosh.

I may have mentioned over the past treads at sometime i run a buisness manufacturing vintage turntable surrounds/plinths as well as buy & sell specialised audio equipment.

I am lucky enough to change my system around on a regular basis if need be.

I actually own the Marantz 10B with the day sequera display gagetry as i do own the classic Yamaha 'CT7000' tuner as well. these two in my view were probably the greatest tuners in the world & i would never part with them even though i never use them.

& a have a Nak 1000 which is a new old stock unit.as well as one for repair.also a nice 'Dragon'.

But your now going into high end gear with the mark levinson etc...most of this is very overated & seems you ears may be mis judging yourself.I've shifted a few Levinsons & agreeable are very good but i personally own a Audio reaserch 'SP9' tube pre-amp & in my view probably the best pre i've ever heard.

I have a pair of Krell 'KSA100' power amp which are excellent but at the time over priced.

Forget about esotecric deck such as Goldmund etc most sound worse than the supposid best CD players in the world & your paying for the material involved in the construction.You usually find the high tag refects on that fact that they aint gonna sell many either.

Yes i have a dedicated Ring main in my listerning room.

I have 5 'Koetsu' , 2 Kesiki,2 Lyra's'& a top of the range Benz Moving coils amongs others.

So please don't try to impress me.It's not a bragging thread.

I'm fully aware of what is overated & what is not.

Over the years of dealing with custommers buying this type of gear is the higher majority have more money than sence & are born show off's.

Expensive = not brilliant most of the time.

only the very few are the buisness.

SP9

oliverstoned wrote: ...and, btw, you have to have one electric line per device... With bigger diameter lines(4mm2) for amps It's essential.

Oliver

I never said the Yamaha had anything to do with the Marantz.How can it have Marantz were an American Company at the time i was just stating that the Marantz '10B' & Yami 'CT7000' were the best sounding tuners in the world.

Yes i' know the Counterpoint 5000...You've gotta be a prick to pay $3.500 for one although they sound great.

Regarding the cabling.Oliver either get you head out of those high end hi-fi mags or stay away from your friend cos it's doing you no favours.

I've been through all that when i was a little boy.The only thing that works is Russ Andrews (RATA) way in the UK for me.

BTW you lot in france getting all this high end gear imported in then.'YBA'(Yves Benard Andr'e) gear not any good for you?

oliverstoned wrote: Radioactive Toy wrote: hey lets take an look at this.. yeah great teddy also! I've had to buy it all... trade etc... Nice bed!

wanna have a go?

Radioactive Toy wrote: oliverstoned wrote: Radioactive Toy wrote: hey lets take an look at this.. yeah great teddy also! I've had to buy it all... trade etc... Nice bed! wanna have a go?

Yes Tidy your records up youg man

Karnevil9 wrote: arcer wrote: I'll take my Linn 'Condek' as Karn calls it over most every truntable I've heard and that includes an extremely expensive Clearaudio Reference which i didn't rate at all. The only turntable I've liked more was a Michell Gyrodeck. My pretty basic LP12 with a Sumiko Blue Point (which is MC and only cost about E300) sounds great. Put them through my musical fidelity XLPS and Myriad pre and powers and it sounds pretty damn good to me (though my speakers are rubbish - need something to sharpen the warmth of the Linn + Myriads)   Sorry arcer but i get very pissed off with the claims over the years that  the 'Condek' is the reference turntable to buy...No it is not at all,as i've mentioned Ivor Tiffentwitt had the market,press & dealers by the balls.The deck is absolutly no reference deck it's too coloured in sound.The 'Condek' now is nothing but an out dated design pinched from his fathers Ariston 'RD11' & Thorens 'TD150.These past upgrades he kept flogging were nothing but a con as are linn. I have in stock at the moment a Valhalla Linn Sondek with 'Ittock' & the same with an Alphason 'HR100S' fitted all serviced ready for the next foll purchaser,i find them both poor compared to a Pink triangle 'Anniversary' fitted with Helius 'Orion' & £700 Dynavector MC i'm presently listerning to. I would suggest you scrap the Musical Fidelity 'XLP'.The Myrads are ok but not brilliant.Just a run of the mill trendy company thought up by an EX-Arcam guy.I know this may hurt your feelings but there you go i'm sorry,i'm not saying this to wind you up but i have a feeling you've bought this kit over the years out reviews... What's your speakers?

Actually Karn, it doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Your thoughts are interesting and well informed. I didn't actually buy all the stuff I have based on reviews but on a combination of listening tests and price.

I'd listened to a lot of amps in or around the two grand mark before opting for the Myryads and to my ears they just sounded the most natural, neutral and musical of all I'd heard. It was the same with the Linn (which is quite old and bought second hand). I bought it because it sounded better to my ears than most things I'd heard.

I guess it's really horses for courses. For me the worst thing I've ever heard were some 8grand B&W Nautilus speakers being driven by Krells (I think) and can't remember what the cd player was. The sound (supposedly neutral and crystal clear accurate) was like having the top of your head sawn off. Harsh, painful and headache inducing. Too bright, too brittle, too much.

I grant you, I am struggling a little with a surfeit of warmth at the moment and feel my system could do with some neutralising speakers, but I genuinely like the Linn/Myryads.

The speakers are TDL RTL3s pretty old and very woolly in the bass. They're from my first 'proper' system and I've never had enough cash to upgrade - I've lsistened to a lot of speakers and so far haven't found 'the' ones I want. Closest so far are system audio 1280s which sound pretty cool and are in my sub 2 grand price range.

I'd be interested in alternatives - to all the components.

I have the XLP because I can't afford a high-end preamp and the MF does fine.

arcer wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: arcer wrote: I'll take my Linn 'Condek' as Karn calls it over most every truntable I've heard and that includes an extremely expensive Clearaudio Reference which i didn't rate at all. The only turntable I've liked more was a Michell Gyrodeck. My pretty basic LP12 with a Sumiko Blue Point (which is MC and only cost about E300) sounds great. Put them through my musical fidelity XLPS and Myriad pre and powers and it sounds pretty damn good to me (though my speakers are rubbish - need something to sharpen the warmth of the Linn + Myriads)   Sorry arcer but i get very pissed off with the claims over the years that  the 'Condek' is the reference turntable to buy...No it is not at all,as i've mentioned Ivor Tiffentwitt had the market,press & dealers by the balls.The deck is absolutly no reference deck it's too coloured in sound.The 'Condek' now is nothing but an out dated design pinched from his fathers Ariston 'RD11' & Thorens 'TD150.These past upgrades he kept flogging were nothing but a con as are linn. I have in stock at the moment a Valhalla Linn Sondek with 'Ittock' & the same with an Alphason 'HR100S' fitted all serviced ready for the next foll purchaser,i find them both poor compared to a Pink triangle 'Anniversary' fitted with Helius 'Orion' & £700 Dynavector MC i'm presently listerning to. I would suggest you scrap the Musical Fidelity 'XLP'.The Myrads are ok but not brilliant.Just a run of the mill trendy company thought up by an EX-Arcam guy.I know this may hurt your feelings but there you go i'm sorry,i'm not saying this to wind you up but i have a feeling you've bought this kit over the years out reviews... What's your speakers?   Actually Karn, it doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Your thoughts are interesting and well informed. I didn't actually buy all the stuff I have based on reviews but on a combination of listening tests and price. I'd listened to a lot of amps in or around the two grand mark before opting for the Myryads and to my ears they just sounded the most natural, neutral and musical of all I'd heard. It was the same with the Linn (which is quite old and bought second hand). I bought it because it sounded better to my ears than most things I'd heard. I guess it's really horses for courses. For me the worst thing I've ever heard were some 8grand B&W Nautilus speakers being driven by Krells (I think) and can't remember what the cd player was. The sound (supposedly neutral and crystal clear accurate) was like having the top of your head sawn off. Harsh, painful and headache inducing. Too bright, too brittle, too much. I grant you, I am struggling a little with a surfeit of warmth at the moment and feel my system could do with some neutralising speakers, but I genuinely like the Linn/Myryads. The speakers are TDL RTL3s pretty old and very woolly in the bass. They're from my first 'proper' system and I've never had enough cash to upgrade - I've lsistened to a lot of speakers and so far haven't found 'the' ones I want. Closest so far are system audio 1280s which sound pretty cool and are in my sub 2 grand price range. I'd be interested in alternatives - to all the components. I have the XLP because I can't afford a high-end preamp and the MF does fine.

Um..You seem genuine enough.Yes flog the TDL's they have always had a wooley sound even from the previous company name which was IMF in the '70's.Both IMF & TDL based there designs around Transmission line,they did make a couple of bookshelf models but were crap.

I really don't know what to recommend as i feel Loudspeaker design & driver technology is going no place these days,the designs are sounding more shocking.

If you love the 'Condek' so much & possibly it's looks that pretty much attract you,why not try & find an old pair of Linn 'Isobarik' loudspaeakers.This is the omly Linn product that sounded good,Gut wrenching bass peformance from those KEF units...Really good.I had a pair for 10 years.

Egnore the cross over under the cabinet.

oliverstoned wrote: "i was just stating that the Marantz '10B' & Yami 'CT7000' were the best sounding tuners in the world." You don't know nothing! Here's the real hierarchy of tuners: 1-Marantz 10B 2-Sequerra day 3-Goldmund Mimesis 4 (you don't know that, eh? my best friend has it and he's the only one in France to possess it, it's THE BEST OF THE WORLD on hifi criterias. It's one of the best source ever, incredible!)It costs 10000 €. This is not the little japanese!!! After that came the Marantz 7 which is a rare model from 1974, and after comes the Mac, which best are MR67 and MR71. The other good are MR78, MR 82. And after come all the not too bad japanese from the 80's....

Look Oliver

I've been buying & selling gear for over 20 years.Don't try telling me.

High end crap like that doesnt cut in the UK..You see British audio equipment was the best equipment in the world.You are a little arsehole that reads too much & by the looks is obsessed.Stop reading & open your ears.

For god sake man you use a valve amp for rock music.Thats how much a dick you are

what have you froggies produced over the years for the audio industry?hardly anything worth entertaining.

oliverstoned wrote: For your information, here's the Mimesis 4 tuner, the best in the world for freq range, dynamic, soundstage, etc... It needs 24 hours to be warm!

24 hours warm up...um fantastic that isnt it.There you go reading your mags again.Im sorry but a DYNALAB tuner would piss on that.

Karnevil9 wrote: Radioactive Toy wrote: oliverstoned wrote: Radioactive Toy wrote: hey lets take an look at this.. yeah great teddy also! I've had to buy it all... trade etc... Nice bed! wanna have a go?   Yes Tidy your records up youg man

Ah you could do loveley things with vinyl instead of playing it

oliverstoned wrote: You are a big peasent i learn you the basic keep on dreaming on your yamaha tuner

There you go again not reading english correctly.

I buy for to sell on ok!!!

I'm keeping the Marantz 10 for myself...

I sell on the Yamaha 'CT7000' because they sell for a lot of money.

All clear?

ok!

oliverstoned wrote: You are a little arsehole that reads too much & by the looks is obsessed.Stop reading & open your ears. One time for all, i don't read any reviews my ears are much better open than yours you are in hifi from 25 years and you claim that tubes can't work for rock? Tubes are the best in the high, there's no transistor amp in the world better than my jolida! when a system really works , you can listen as well to opera or led zep, or jazz! You don't know anything, that's obvious!

I don't do i!

I use an Audio reaserch 'SP9'tube pre-amp dork!

If you wanna over drive your power amp tubes or burn out the output transformers belting rock out don't come running.

Your the one who knows nothing

Bad, scratched vinyl is horrible but good, carefully looked after discs blow the a**e off CDs. Buying second hand off ebay is a risk.

The Rega Planar 3 is a great cheap deck but I have really major doubts about the Linn LP12's fidelity though some swear by them ( I inherited a full Linn system and it was absolute sh*te to my ears). I use a Systemdek IIX with Mission 774 Arm and an Ortofon MC in my attic and, in my music room, a Pink Triangle Anniversary with an SME V arm and a Lyra Lydian cartridge which is the utter dog's b*******s (but it cost £4300 7 years ago so it ought to be). I have 800+ albums and still buy new pressings, mainly direct masters on 180g vinyl. They sound WONDERFUL but they cost far more than CDs!!

Guests wrote: I bought an assload of progressive and jazz albums like Rush, Weather Report, Yes, King Crimson...and ALL of them skipped on at least two of the tracks. I was SO pissed that they were all defective in some way or another. I realized why they were so cheap ($2.99 a piece) and why people got rid of them. I would suggest selling your turntable or refraining from buying one, and use the money to buy the records on CD. The only two reasons I could see someone buying vinyl these days is for collecting purposes or for the album art. Album art really took it in the shorts when CDs became the main format for music.

I bet you can fix most of those LP's if you want to. First wash them with water, which is not very hot and with low pressure. Dry them, and get a sharp paper knife. Then carefully make a cut along the track, and I guarantee there's only a slight crack or pop there, where it used to stuck jumping. It might be more difficult to do this kind of a repair on a CD. And at least I manage to ruin CD's scratching them regurally, but I have never in my life managed to ruin a LP. 

If you're not interested in LP repairing hobby activities, please let's negotiate a resonable price and sell them to me! It's heartbreaking to think about poor, molested vinyls. I still have bad feelings about an occasion, when I found a smashed PROCOL HARUM's LP while wandering in a forest...

marktheshark wrote: Vinyl is warmer and more listenable. At least 'til 1979. After that, the quality just diminished to low grade vinyl quality and the use of 2nd and 3rd generation master tape copies to press them on for mass marketing. That's why I stuck with the audiophile LPs in the mid 80s where they used high-density virgin vinyl and the studio master tapes for pressing. They made LPs the way they were supposed be made like they did in the 60s and early 70s.

What do you think about modern vinyl presesses? I bought some LP's at early 90's, and I think the sound on them is great, F.Ex. PETER GABRIEL's "Us" and "Passion". I also have some recent vinyls by ANEKDOTEN, MORTE MACABRE and PAATOS. I must admit that I'm a bit deaf, so I'm not so sensitive about audio quality, but I hear the differences, as I concentrate to listen at it. One of my well-hearing friend is quite interested at the sounds of records, and I have had some listening and debate sessions about this subject.

Keep in mind, the more recent vinyls are nothing more than a CD on vinyl. They're not using the original analog tapes to press these anymore. To preserve those, they're using digital master tapes that were transferred from the analog tapes. Big difference.

Sure! I admit sincerelly that I know almost nothing about the manufacturing of LP's, my opinnions have been formed only by consuming music in different formats. I'm not at home currently, so I can't look at the details from sleeves of the albums I mentioned before, but I guess the early 90's PG recordings were done digitally? I'm not sure about the swedish prog recordings then, they were done by Mellotronen-company few years ago.

Thanks for your informative reply!