Should IDM be considered electronic prog?

Ivan- I understand that aphex and autechre are not listed in the uneccesarily long list that you just posted but if you follow the URL that you posted to GEPR's guide to progressive rock genres at http://www.gepr.net/genre2.html

then you will see this:

Techno - There is a wide variety of music that falls under the house, rave or techno monikers that is also considered ambient music. The earliest forms of this music probably got its origin in the later music of Kraftwerk. This tends to include heavily atmospheric and often psychedelic electronic music with an emphasis on rhythm and beat. Artists in this genre (or operating from it) include Orbital, Autechre, Aphex Twin, The Orb, System 7 and Eat Static.

Now Gepr does NOT call this music progressive rock.  I simply stated that the bands in question are listed on GEPR... but really I agree with rashikal that it doesnt matter whether a band is listed or not.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ also check out David Holmes, Lamb, James Hardway and De-Phazz ... I'll check out the artists you mentioned (although I already know Aphex Twin and it's a bit too commercial for my taste).

How can you call Aphex Twin too commercial?  He plays with the idea of being commercial in his videos and album titles (26 mixes for cash). Humor is a big element in his music.  Don't confuse success and popularity with commerciality though.  Its true that the "come to daddy" single is a bit commercial (and not very good musically) but that is an anomaly in his catalog.  The majority of the music is quite abstract however.  If you want to point out a popular electronic act which is more commercial I would say something like the chemical brothers or air any number of more dancable house-type arists/djs. 

Rashikal wrote: Ivan, you haven't even listened to any music from the genre for the reason it's described as "dance" music and they don't play real instruments. Contrary to popular (ignorant) belief, Experimental Electronica is NOT plugging commands into a computer for people to dance to. Boards of Canada is some of the most artful music you'll ever hear, and Autechre experiments with all kinds of mathy time signatures. Please try actually LISTENING to music from this genre before you dismiss it as non progressive, boring music. IDM should be included in the electronic prog section on this website. You argue that it doesn't fit in with the stereotypical prog norms like 20 minute symphonic epics and extended solos, neither does a good deal of electronic prog on this website. Are you telling me Kraftwerk's Computer World is "rock"? IDM music is expanding the boundaries of electronica and is very progressive, in fact IDM is WAY more progressive than all these sh*tty neo-prog bands that recycle 30 year old ideas yet you people spend so much time adding to this website.

Maybe you shouldn't call it IDM? I never heard that before. Why not simply call it AOE (Album Oriented Electronica)? No wait ... most of the above mentioned bands are much more than that!

BTW: You should all listen to this current release:

http://www.ipecac.com/bio.php?id=42

the band is called "Ghostigital" ... amazing stuff!

gggg wrote: vogre wrote: Oh yeah about prog sites mentioning it: http://www.gepr.net/genre2.html#ESCHOOLS Beautifil quote, but IDM is not menytioned eather, and BTW, they have a band list and none of the bands you mention is included. Eashikal, don't assume I didn't heard anything, after an old thread about this same nonsense of adding this band to Prog Archives, I at least listened a lot of Aphex Twin and Autechre, plus searched all the availlable Prog database and none is mentioned. At the end, who cares, I'm 99% sure that they are not going to be added. Iván

If you don't care then just leave the thread.  The type of music in question is described on gepr but its all lumped into "techno."  They specifically mention aphex twin and autechre. 

Oh yeah about prog sites mentioning it:

http://www.gepr.net/genre2.html#ESCHOOLS

Ivan Melgar Morey wrote: I only have three arguments and believe are enough not to include them: Not related even remoptely with Rock Some if not most of them are mixers or DJ's who mainly don't play real instruments, I believed that virtuosism is oart of the requitrements of Progressive Rock. IDM is clearly related with the DANCE/RAVE scenario which IMO is the anthitesis of Prog. What will be next, Rap? Hip Hop? Iván

Quite a few people on this thread have already made the a succesful counter-argument to the first point.  MANY artists on this site have either a very tenuous connection or no connection to "rock", especially the electronic german stuff.  Also see a post on this thread which shows that the definition of rock is in fact so broad as to render Ivan's first point moot.  Maybe you should define "mixers" or "DJs" as you are clearly using these terms in a pejorative sence.  Some of these artists do play traditional instruments (squarepusher would be a good example)... its how the sounds they produce are ultimately utilized/structured which differs from more traditional composition.  The third point is very biased and frankly, a stereotypical opinion.  I am gradtified that members here have strong personal opinions but unless the opinoins are shared by the totality or even a majority, I don't think we can accept the argument.  If we can't even agree on what prog is then I don't think that we can agree on its antithesis.  Personally I would not be in favor of Rap/Hip hop (for that matter I'm not in favor of metal while many others are) but perhaps I am being shortsighted.  Whether a category is acceptable or not, it should not be dismissed based on misinformation, ignorance or the opinions of a minority.

Phobos

yeppp wrote: Ivan Melgar Morey wrote: I only have three arguments and believe are enough not to include them: Not related even remoptely with Rock Some if not most of them are mixers or DJ's who mainly don't play real instruments, I believed that virtuosism is oart of the requitrements of Progressive Rock. IDM is clearly related with the DANCE/RAVE scenario which IMO is the anthitesis of Prog. What will be next, Rap? Hip Hop? Iván   IDM is clearly related with the DANCE/RAVE scenario which IMO is the anthesis of prog " <-- Infact lot's of so called IDM isn't danceable at all cause of the the rhythms...

Cool yourself I'm Ivan with an emergency user because a bug.

Shouting, using bold letters and telling people that they talk sh*t is not correct

Still I believe in all what I heard and what I read even when I'm not an expert on Non Prog Muisc of this genre.

Shout whatever you want, but as you have seen this thread has been moved to a non Prog section because it's not even Prog related.}

All thedefenders gie me links and pages, I checked them all and all say exactly the same.

Iván

BTW: Already Vogre defending them has made my point about not being realm msuicians:

Vogre wrote:

All those artists among others may not be musicians but they are sculptors of some gorgeous sonic landscapes. I really doubt whether Klaus Schulze or Fripp & Eno are in any matter more prog rock.

Well. this is a place for musicians, and better if virtuoso

And Vogre: Fripp not Prog Rock????????? Throw that stuff you're smoking