An Airline Passenger’s Story

I have one final thing to say on this subject and then I will say no more:

This is an ex-parrot.  If you hadn't taken the liberty of nailing it to its perch it would be pushing up the daisies!

What a difference a few days makes -

I'd not read this particular thread for a while, then saw it referred to elsewhere, so decided to re-read it, then re-read it again, not quite believing what I saw the first time.

Speaking personally, a certain member's advocacy (pun intended) of what can only be termed 'ethnic cleansing', purportedly for the future security of his home country, I find both disturbing and abhorent; more disturbing still, given that it comes from an obviously (otherwise) intelligent person - one whose articulacy is such that others could well be swayed by such views if they were aired to a wider audience. I am not as well read as either of the two main protagonists in this ever more heated debate, I certainly don't have the same level of IQ, neither am I a great student of history, but even I can see the parallels between the ideas (ideals?) posted in this thread, the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and, yes, the Holocaust of the 1930s/1940's - perhaps to be on the safe side, those of arabic extraction should be easily recogniseable, say by wearing an armband with a crescent moon .

As has been stated a few times during this debate, this is the 'Discussions Not Related To Music' section of the forum, and usually I will avoid some of the more emotive subjects raised, as I come here for a break from the everyday, and would prefer not to get dragged into a long and heated argument - I may disagree with some views posted, but will defend the right for them to be aired... in most cases.

I have to say here and now that I despair to see the shadow of a long slumbering ideology in these pages.

Ok,speaking as Admin:

Some of the pictures have been removed and I have relocated all the related posts here.

Speaking as an ordinary human being:

Peter's pictures do put me in an awkward position ethically because I'm not sure I want to see mass open graves when I visit this site. There is also the problem that some of Mark's pictures were deleted and these postings at least put Mark's "crime" into perspective.

However,where the hell do you think requests for mass-deportation can lead???

You can sit back and declare "what happened in Nazi Germany could never happen in the USA" but how do you know so? How many people does it take to listen to or read ugly racist remarks and dismiss them as rhetoric before the possibility becomes a reality? Who's to say that what has happened in Germany,The Balkans and Iraq couldnt happen in the USA if extremists got into power in the USA in the future.A climate of fear and hate can lead to this.

How many forum members chimed in on this thread and declared their revulsion to what The Doctor stated?Lets's get this straight he stated not only that all Arabs should be mass deported from the USA but also that he did not care how many Arab people were killed or murdered,because he didnt like them and they deserved it.

This is what has upset Peter,not just the fact that  these remarks have been made,but that others have sat back and not really condemned him! He believes that the lack of comdemnation implies approval or agreement.

Listen to the sentiments gushing forth on this forum and in the Media. Right-Wing Politicians,Christian-Fundamentalists and the rest of the fear-mongers.What if some of these extremists got to power and actually started to make Government Policy based on these beliefs?

Take yourself back to Nazi Germany when mass deportation was taking place and the rumours were flying around about what was happening.What comments would you make about the statement "at last they're deporting all the Jews"? That's a situation that many ordinary God-fearing Germans were presented with in those dark days and we can imagine how the climate of fear and hate influenced their replies...

These are big issues my friends and you trivialise them with your charges of "out-of-order" anf notes of disdain for Peter.He is the brave one-what does that make you?

 

 

 

Edited by Tony R

Tsk tsk tsk tsk Petie, as Fred Willard put it in A Mighty Wind, "Wha' Happened?"...

wtf?

Way to be an asshole, Peter. I used to respect you.

Edit: By the way, that's PM territory if anything. I don't want to see that sh*t when I'm online. If I ever do, I'll rent Schindler's List.

Sorry to see your one-great presence diminish so much.

Edited by stonebeard

This may be a music forum,but this is the Discussions Not Related To Music area!!

Some of you are forgetting that.

However this thread has run its course and has deviated some what....so I'll close it.

Edited by Tony R

 @ Fanny

Peter wrote: The Miracle wrote: And I know from the Velvy Room that Doc is a great guy, and I know so is Peter... Look what politics can do to people! Well, genuine thanks for the compliment...  but I find it rather naive if you and others think that someone who (among other things) advocates the ethnic "cleansing" of the US, and expresses a complete lack of concern for the violent deaths of non-combatants (ie, those of non-European/Judeo-Christian heritage) at the hands of US forces can still be a "good guy." Many here would be targetted in the type of repressive, racist police state that "the good Doctor" yearns for. Wake up and smell the history books, for goodness sake!  How does my taking a stance against the dissemination of hatred and racist ideology on this music forum make me somehow on a par with the person who posts it, in terms of offensiveness?   The silence of the majority on this VERY important issue is deafening....

Peter,

Speaking personally, I don't agree with what The Doctor has said in this thread.  You and I quite probably have more in common politically, but you have also said some equally insensitive things in this thread, and still continue to take it out of perspective.

You accused him of being a Nazi, which not only offended Baldefriede as a German, but frankly also me as being of Jewish decent...most of my Grandmother's Austrian family were wiped out, so I don't take too kindly to the term being used as a weapon.

No-one would disagree with our right to have political discourse in the DNRTM thread, but when it gets to the stage that two prog fans start mud slinging because of opposing views on the war on terror, then it leaves a nasty taste in the mouths of many in the forum.  I could post my political views in here, but I choose not to, because the world is a sick enough place as it is, and I come here for escapism, because of my love of prog, and to chat to some great people.

Personally, I think Doc is a great guy, and I have always thought highly of you from our previous conversations.

For the sake of unity and keeping this forum a great place to visit Peter, I ask you to take the Doc's lead and leave this issue to fall.

My very Best Wishes for a peaceful New Year

Fandango

The Miracle wrote: And I know from the Velvy Room that Doc is a great guy, and I know so is Peter... Look what politics can do to people!

Well, genuine thanks for the compliment...

 but I find it rather naive if you and others think that someone who (among other things) advocates the ethnic "cleansing" of the US, and expresses a complete lack of concern for the violent deaths of non-combatants (ie, those of non-European/Judeo-Christian heritage) at the hands of US forces can still be a "good guy." Many here would be targetted in the type of repressive, racist police state that "the good Doctor" yearns for. Wake up and smell the history books, for goodness sake! 

How does my taking a stance against the dissemination of hatred and racist ideology on this music forum make me somehow on a par with the person who posts it, in terms of offensiveness?

 

The silence of the majority on this VERY important issue is deafening....