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Crushed Aria 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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 Topic: prog metal - the future of prog ??
Posted: October 24 2005 at 15:43 |
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... first off I must attacl the obvious ignorance towards metal here, as it is my mother genre.
System of a Down, are not metal. They are nu-metal, which in all reality is a bs term, meaning alternative rock with MINOR influences from metal. Definatly not enough to make them metal.
Also, how can metal not be progressive/prog. whatever you must call it ... >_> with bands like those I will be mentioning you just can not deny it.
I honestly think that Solefald, Transcending Bizarre, Kayo Dot, Nightingale, Spastic Ink, and Behold the Arctopus are already set down into being Prog. metal yet have so much room to expand their musical creativity that progressive metal has a f**king huge future.
Also, as probably one of the biggest PoS fans here, why are you guys calling them Prog. Metal >_> honestly. They are more rock oriented than metal. Maybe like call them Prog. Rock w/ Metal influences.
Edited by Crushed Aria
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: October 22 2005 at 04:30 |
 MikeEnRegalia wrote:
What did they do that hasn't been done before by either prog or non-prog artists? |
But to answer your question here.. I believe SoaD are combining a number of different influences (like metal, psychedelic, prog, avant-garde) into a style which is totally their own. It's really difficult to name a band that would sound ANYTHING like SoaD, isn't it?
Yet their music is also extremely popular because the songs are catchy, many of their songs have recognisable choruses and they stay within the 3-4 minute song format. That's the reason why their inclusion can be questioned.
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: October 22 2005 at 04:23 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
This is pointless. First Logos said that I say that they aren't innovative at all, which is not true. They are innovative ... but the musical elements they use have been done before. |
And yet again; that has nothing to do with being prog or not, as I believe you, Mike, have said yourself on a number of occasions.
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beef
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 25 2005
Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 47
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 21:03 |
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no
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 20:55 |
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Prog metal is not the future.
Edited by dream_orchestra
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flying teapot
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 20:27 |
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Tool is good, and tool is in the band list, but mysteriously A perfect circle I did not find.
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Space Dimentia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 25 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 440
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 15:13 |
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Waht about Tool? They are not making the prog-metal scene stagnant in fact far from it they are incorporating many ideas from other cultures, new scales, new ideas in general. Plus Dream Theater they are always on the quest for someting new plus they have still got it musically listen the Octavarium (the title track not the whole album) and you'll fine plenty of time changes etc, even coheed and cmabria are carrying the beacon for nu-prog (fair enough they are not prog-metal but thats beyond the point).
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Prog is music for the mind
Hear your Orphaned child!
Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 15:12 |
i like SOAD - don't know their stuff well enough to say if they prog metal 
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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stinkfist
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 92
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 15:11 |
i think SOAD would make a great addition to the RIO category on the site
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how can this mean anything to me?
when i really dont feel a thing at all
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 14:43 |
flying teapot wrote:
Virtuoso playing |
?
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 14:42 |
^ you have some good points there, flying_teapot ... I don't have the time right now, but I will respond in detail later (probably tomorrow morning).
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flying teapot
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 14:31 |
MikeEnRegalia I treasure your posts on all subjects , thats why it's surprises me you disagree, but I value your opinion, but that is what prog is all about, we Prog lovers are unique and our love of music is based on loving a musical style that is considered by most " an overarchievers waste of time". Prog has never been the media's darling and alwys will be the black sheep of the musical family of styles. (So this is not personal, and no attck on your former post specifically)
On occasion we have a band come along that surprises us in its stylings, maybe its a conglamorate of music styles that has been done before but they may just add one element, or one instrument that is different, one thing that makes them harder to identify. I listen to SOAD and yes they have all the elements of Metal, the fast guitars, the screaming, but at the smae time they have a sensitivity to their vocals, not unusual in Metal ballads or Prog Metal. Their songs have the time signature changes, varied rhythms, often heard in prog. Their comes their ethnicity, the fact that the members of the band all are of Arab decent they have decided to include the elements of their heritage, the music, some instruments and their vocal stylings to their music.
Now we have the hodge podge that makes a band interesting and hard to define. I am not saying that SOAD is as good as Gentle Giant, but GG had so many influences, Classical, Madrigal, renaissance, folk, rock, and chant and jazz in their songs that could switch on the drop of a dime, which is similar to what SOAD is doing but with different styles of music. Maybe they don't do at as well as GG, but they do give it a shot.
Are they Prog, I believe so, but that is my opinion, and how I classify things that are prog, I infact believe thay are more Prog than Metal.
I personally cannot give any specific innovations as to what or why SOAD is different, or why they should be included in the band list, I appreciate the argument that has evolved around the band, I am more insulted by the post who thought that the mention of System of a Down on this forum was "OMG!!!!!!!" the worst thing ever posted.
I have made my case and I stand behind my decision, I am nearly fifty years old, and I have been around Prog a longtime, a fan since its beginnings....The fact that I am standng up for a modern band is actually quite hilarious as I favor the old prog.
Also the initial objective of this post was to see If Prog Metal was the Future of PROG?
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 13:34 |
flying teapot wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Logos wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
They are a popular band who try to be a little bit weird and unpredictible, that's all. |
Now you're basically just saying they aren't innovative after all.
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What did they do that hasn't been done before by either prog or non-prog artists?
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Did not know that one had to be completely original to be included in the bands list, if thats the case there would only be a dozen bands in the list. Bands will always borrow, but in this time and age SOAD has brought forth a fresh sound that may be as crazy as Zappa, and as variegated as Gentle Giant with a Metal edge. If not PROG how would you classify it?
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This is pointless. First Logos said that I say that they aren't innovative at all, which is not true. They are innovative ... but the musical elements they use have been done before.
Then I asked for examples of their innovations ... I did not say that I expect the answer "nothing at all", I was challengeing you to prove me wrong.
Then you deduced that innovation is a must for something to be included in the archives, which again could not be further from the truth.
To get back to the initial topic (SoaD): That comparison with Gentle Giant is ridiculous. Maybe you can say that they're using elements of Avant-Prog bands like Fantomas or Mr. Bungle ... but Gentle Giant are out of reach for them. And my point is that they're not trying to reach that level of virtuosity and compositional excellence. At the same time they're neither following minimalistic approaches ... I simply can't see what kind of prog they could possibly be. Maybe they are prog, but I just can't see why ... I'm not saying that I'm the formost authority on prog.
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 13:23 |
They've been clasified as metal so people don't wanna think of them as a prog band... But maybe if Mesmerise was their 1st album... things would've been different... 
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flying teapot
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 13:15 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Logos wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
They are a popular band who try to be a little bit weird and unpredictible, that's all. |
Now you're basically just saying they aren't innovative after all.
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What did they do that hasn't been done before by either prog or non-prog artists?
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Did not know that one had to be completely original to be included in the bands list, if thats the case there would only be a dozen bands in the list. Bands will always borrow, but in this time and age SOAD has brought forth a fresh sound that may be as crazy as Zappa, and as variegated as Gentle Giant with a Metal edge. If not PROG how would you classify it?
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 13:04 |
Logos wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
They are a popular band who try to be a little bit weird and unpredictible, that's all. |
Now you're basically just saying they aren't innovative after all.
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What did they do that hasn't been done before by either prog or non-prog artists?
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 13:03 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
This is useless again.. If they are not prog... THEY MUST BE PROG RELATED! They should be added/... And what do You mean bout the Artistic Approach? Prog bands were popular, mind You! |
Maybe I would even vote for their inclusion as Prog Related ...
Artistic Approach: Yes, bands like Yes and Genesis were popular in the 70s. I didn't say that popular bands can't be prog. There are a handful of popular bands that are not compromising their artistic integrity .. Tool, Opeth for instance.
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Yeah,people can slam Tool all they want.
But one thing you definitely can't accuse them of is compromising their artistic integrity.
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 13:01 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
They are a popular band who try to be a little bit weird and unpredictible, that's all. |
Now you're basically just saying they aren't innovative after all.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 12:58 |
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
This is useless again.. If they are not prog... THEY MUST BE PROG RELATED! They should be added/... And what do You mean bout the Artistic Approach? Prog bands were popular, mind You! |
Maybe I would even vote for their inclusion as Prog Related ...
Artistic Approach: Yes, bands like Yes and Genesis were popular in the 70s. I didn't say that popular bands can't be prog. There are a handful of popular bands that are not compromising their artistic integrity .. Tool, Opeth for instance.
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: October 21 2005 at 12:55 |
This is useless again.. If they are not prog... THEY MUST BE PROG RELATED! They should be added/... And what do You mean bout the Artistic Approach? Prog bands were popular, mind You!
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prog metal - the future of prog ??
