Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > General Music Discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Ruined or Resurrected ?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Ruined or Resurrected ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ruined or Resurrected ?
    Posted: May 11 2022 at 05:58
Well, from what I can discern it all sounds like the original performance. Most notable to me is that Steve Wilson mixed the guitar more up front and with the overall mix cleaned up many of the hidden/buried instrumental parts (like synth) now see new life. This certainly could give the impression of 'New' parts being added, but when listening to the original on my AKG240K headphones I can make out some of the deeper instrumental parts which now shine on the remix.
My assessment would be that there are No Added parts to the song (other than the intro waves), only Newly Revealed parts which were lost in the original mix.
That being said, I'm not sure which passages specifically BaldFiede feels are new, but sometimes pieces of a song are edited out for various reasons. In Wilson's remix of ELP's Trilogy album, he reinserted an instrumental part into Living Sin that had been edited out, extending the song by a few seconds.
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 15:04
Just checked my collection and it looks like I have one from a DL I did years ago.
Headphones, here I come.
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
nick_h_nz View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team

Joined: March 01 2013
Location: Suffolk, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 6737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 14:50
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

JD is now in total Indiana Jones mode as he searches the jungles for this 2003 version. Wink

I don’t have to go too far to find it. I have the cd in my tower in the living room.
Good hunting, Indy!

[EDIT] I just checked, and you will find it on the Spotify and Amazon streaming platforms, and therefore probably others as well, along with the other versions. So you can contrast and compare to your heart’s content.



Edited by nick_h_nz - May 10 2022 at 14:54
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 14:45
JD is now in total Indiana Jones mode as he searches the jungles for this 2003 version. Wink


Edited by JD - May 10 2022 at 14:46
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 12:40
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Sure. 🙄

The 2003 version was not even a remix, which shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. It was purely a remaster. Yes have stated categorically that it was a remaster only, from the original master tape of the original 1973 Eddie Offord mix. Despite Rock Wakeman’s wish to have some overdubs and re-recordings, this idea was vetoed. There is nothing new, nor remixed, on this version. It is simply a remaster. While the two minute introduction could be viewed as new, the band insisted this was a restoration, rather than an addition.

Even ten years later, in a 2013 interview, Anderson talks about the introduction and how the song was edited down from its original length. By using the search facility on PA, I found a thread on the forum where people are talking about this interview, and where a link to the interview is provided, but following it comes up a dead end. I guess it is probably archived somewhere on the web, but I’ve never known how to find archived sites. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Nope. I have heard the original so many times; I know every note by heart. The 2003 version is definitely not the same.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
nick_h_nz View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team

Joined: March 01 2013
Location: Suffolk, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 6737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 11:55
Sure. 🙄

The 2003 version was not even a remix, which shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. It was purely a remaster. Yes have stated categorically that it was a remaster only, from the original master tape of the original 1973 Eddie Offord mix. Despite Rock Wakeman’s wish to have some overdubs and re-recordings, this idea was vetoed. There is nothing new, nor remixed, on this version. It is simply a remaster. While the two minute introduction could be viewed as new, the band insisted this was a restoration, rather than an addition.

Even ten years later, in a 2013 interview, Anderson talks about the introduction and how the song was edited down from its original length. By using the search facility on PA, I found a thread on the forum where people are talking about this interview, and where a link to the interview is provided, but following it comes up a dead end. I guess it is probably archived somewhere on the web, but I’ve never known how to find archived sites. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 11:38
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

^ Except was that not the original introduction intended for Revealing, but left off the original vinyl only because of time constraints? The word used by the band themselves to describe the two minute introduction was “restored”, which certainly implies it was their preference to have it - even if you thought the song was perfect without it.



I sincerely doubt this "time constraints" problem; the extended version is only about two minutes longer. Anyway, I could have lived with this extension. The problem I have is that the whole album was not just remixed (which would not have changed that much), it was obviously re-recorded; the instruments and voices don't play what was originally played on the album. It feels as if a good friend of yours suddenly underwent extreme plastic surgery in the face.


Edited by BaldFriede - May 10 2022 at 11:40


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
nick_h_nz View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team

Joined: March 01 2013
Location: Suffolk, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 6737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 09:24
^ Except was that not the original introduction intended for Revealing, but left off the original vinyl only because of time constraints? The word used by the band themselves to describe the two minute introduction was “restored”, which certainly implies it was their preference to have it - even if you thought the song was perfect without it.

Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 08:39
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I consider the "remake" of "Tales from Topographic Oceans" to be horrible. I especially dislike that material was added at the beginning of "The Revealing Science of God". I found the original beginning with Anderson singing "Dawn of light lying..." perfect.
When you say 'Remake' do you mean Steve Wilson's 'Remix'?

No; I mean the 2003 reissue which is not just a remix.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2022 at 19:44
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I consider the "remake" of "Tales from Topographic Oceans" to be horrible. I especially dislike that material was added at the beginning of "The Revealing Science of God". I found the original beginning with Anderson singing "Dawn of light lying..." perfect.
When you say 'Remake' do you mean Steve Wilson's 'Remix'?
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
BaldFriede View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2022 at 16:21
I consider the "remake" of "Tales from Topographic Oceans" to be horrible. I especially dislike that material was added at the beginning of "The Revealing Science of God". I found the original beginning with Anderson singing "Dawn of light lying..." perfect.


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Back to Top
mathman0806 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 06 2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6841
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2022 at 10:31
Here's a sequence with Whitesnake "Here I Go Again".

1982 from Saints and Sinners.



1987 version from self titled album.



And then single mix version that made it onto Greatest Hits album.



From Wikipedia:

Quote The original version from the 1982 Saints & Sinners album with Jon Lord on Hammond organ and Bernie Marsden and Micky Moody on guitar (5:03)
The most popular version is the re-recorded version that appears on the Whitesnake (aka 1987) album with John Sykes on guitar (solo by Adrian Vandenberg) (4:36)
A 1987 "radio-mix" version, asked by Geffen, which was released as a United States single with Denny Carmassi on drums and Dann Huff on guitar, who also provided the new arrangement, which included an intro without keyboards and no Coverdale vocal intro verse. This version topped the charts, and appeared on the Greatest Hits album in 1994 (3:54).
Back to Top
Jeffro View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2014
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2022 at 07:43
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Chicago - 25 Or 6 To 4 (1986)



Good god, that's awful. What a piece of crap
We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.

My face IS a maserati
Back to Top
dwill123 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4460
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2022 at 06:33
OK, this will probably be the last one from me on this thread.  Would you believe me if I told you there was an officially released album from Sly Stone with the following guest musicians, Ray Manzarek (The Doors), Carmine Appice (Vanilla Fudge), Johnny Winter and Jeff Beck.  Well, there is.  I am the biggest Sly Stone fan since he came out.  When this album was released (2011) what was available sounded bad.  No credits, just that it was Sly in the studio with other musicians reworking (resurrecting) some of his biggest hits.  It was so bad I said, 'I pass' and left it alone.  When I came back to it a few years later and saw who was officially on the album I nearly sh*t.  For the most part the song reworks are mostly bad.  Sly sounds awful on some (there are some moments but don't hold your breath).  The release is worth having just for the guest, considering a couple of them are no longer with us.




Back to Top
I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4922
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2022 at 13:09
Morning Bell (Kid A)
 
 
 
Morning Bell (Amnesiac)
 
 
 
I very much prefer the version on Kid A. Indeed, the particular thing I love about this version is missing on the Amnesiac version.
 
 

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66628
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2022 at 08:25
Then there is this classic rock song which was resurrected and brought rap to the white masses.  Again not sure if this is what you have in mind, since I guess technically this is a cover, but the original band did participate in the cover.



Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2022 at 07:18
^Resurrected ! Thumbs Up
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
dwill123 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4460
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2022 at 06:56
In 1961 Del Shannon hit #1 with "Runaway".  Throughout the 60s he had a few more songs, a few more gigs and paid the bills.  As the 70s began 60s music started to be replaced and Shannon started to fade into the background.  Until the 1980s.  In 1985, Michael Mann (of Miami Vice fame) created a new show called "Crime Story".  "Crime Story" is one of my top 10 TV shows of all time, but it had productions issues and never really took off.  Cancel after two seasons.  Any how the show needed an opening theme and Shannon's "Runaway" was selected.  Michael Mann had Shannon reworked the song to give it a more modern (80s) sound and the "Crime Story" theme was created.  I like both versions, but the reworked version is definitely my favorite.


Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2022 at 06:01
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Here is an original version of a song I'm sure pretty much everyone is familiar with. Followed by an updated version to fit the era it was recorded in.  Was it ruined or was it resurrected?
What other tunes do you know of that have been 'Redone' by their original band. (and original doesn't need to mean all original members, just no cover versions).

Chicago - 25 Or 6 To 4 (1970)

...
Hi,

That remaster belongs in the trash can with the worst drumming ever recorded, and the the worst crap design ever devised for an audience, which is an insult to all of our intelligences!

Might as well tell those idiots to go do Beethoven and Mozart with that god-awful drum beat and stupid music design that a couple of music recording companies think ... is something we like!

Please ... don't buy that new one and make sure it dies quickly. It is a serious insult to the actual music! No one goes to a concert to hear Beethoven done like that crap!


Edited by moshkito - May 07 2022 at 06:02
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
HolyMoly View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2022 at 05:53
The Walsh example reminded me that the Guess Who put the song “No Time” ( which I always used to think was by CSN ) on two consecutive albums - Canned Wheat and American Woman - in nearly identical versions. Not sure why, but the second one was a hit.
My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.309 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.