Ruined or Resurrected ?
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Forum Name: General Music Discussions
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128930
Printed Date: March 08 2025 at 16:37
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Topic: Ruined or Resurrected ?
Posted By: JD
Subject: Ruined or Resurrected ?
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 11:00
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Here is an original version of a song I'm sure pretty much everyone is familiar with. Followed by an updated version to fit the era it was recorded in. Was it ruined or was it resurrected? What other tunes do you know of that have been 'Redone' by their original band. (and original doesn't need to mean all original members, just no cover versions). Chicago - 25 Or 6 To 4 (1970) Chicago - 25 Or 6 To 4 (1986) ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Replies:
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 11:03
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Just because I heard this for the first time last week: In regards to your post, I don't recall having any issues with the newer recording, but will give it another listen from this context. ------------- 
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Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 11:28
| Genesis Carpet Crawlers |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 11:33
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I don't know if this counts or not, but Jon Anderson kind of ruined this Yes song. -------------
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 11:36
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That Chicago remake is hard to take. I at least appreciate that it’s different enough to have a reason to exist, but they really overdid the drums/pop metal guitars to the point of parody. I won’t go so far as to say it’s ruined (its positive aspects survive the production), but it’s close. Here’s a remake that fares a little better. Spirit reformed in the 80s and re-recorded their most popular songs & added a couple of new ones. This version rocks pretty well I think, though I still prefer the original. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 11:48
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HolyMoly wrote:Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 15:30
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I would guess it's more ruined than resurrected. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 15:39
I like the 1999 version of the song.
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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 16:54
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This is one I never understood why there is two versions (I'm sure there's a good reason). I like both equally. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 17:18
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The why was because he now had a solo career, so he wanted to do the tune to fit his current 'sound'. The huge difference is certainly the production of the song, and I really prefer the original 1972 Barnstorm version. It has such raw guitar sounds that just eat up my speakers. I love it. The 1974 So What version is a little sterile even though it shows the performance to be better. Good Pick !  ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 06 2022 at 18:59
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Emerson, Lake & Palmer's 15 minute studio version of Pictures at an Exhibition recorded in stunning Dolby Surround Sound from Return of the Manticore in 1993 is arguably superior to the original live version. (It's also available as a bonus item on the otherwise execrable In the Hot Seat. Yes, the one that needed flushing afterwards) ------------- 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 02:44
in 99% of the cases, anyways    The Spirit 13th Dream album is very disappointing, but maybe the more successfull example ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 04:54
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This probably doesn't count, but Hackett does play on it. It is reworking and not a cover. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 05:53
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The Walsh example reminded me that the Guess Who put the song “No Time” ( which I always used to think was by CSN ) on two consecutive albums - Canned Wheat and American Woman - in nearly identical versions. Not sure why, but the second one was a hit. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 06:01
Hi, That remaster belongs in the trash can with the worst drumming ever recorded, and the the worst crap design ever devised for an audience, which is an insult to all of our intelligences! Might as well tell those idiots to go do Beethoven and Mozart with that god-awful drum beat and stupid music design that a couple of music recording companies think ... is something we like! Please ... don't buy that new one and make sure it dies quickly. It is a serious insult to the actual music! No one goes to a concert to hear Beethoven done like that crap!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 06:56
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In 1961 Del Shannon hit #1 with "Runaway". Throughout the 60s he had a few more songs, a few more gigs and paid the bills. As the 70s began 60s music started to be replaced and Shannon started to fade into the background. Until the 1980s. In 1985, Michael Mann (of Miami Vice fame) created a new show called "Crime Story". "Crime Story" is one of my top 10 TV shows of all time, but it had productions issues and never really took off. Cancel after two seasons. Any how the show needed an opening theme and Shannon's "Runaway" was selected. Michael Mann had Shannon reworked the song to give it a more modern (80s) sound and the "Crime Story" theme was created. I like both versions, but the reworked version is definitely my favorite. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 07:18
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^Resurrected ! ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 08:25
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Then there is this classic rock song which was resurrected and brought rap to the white masses. Again not sure if this is what you have in mind, since I guess technically this is a cover, but the original band did participate in the cover. -------------
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Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: May 07 2022 at 13:09
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Morning Bell (Kid A) Morning Bell (Amnesiac) I very much prefer the version on Kid A. Indeed, the particular thing I love about this version is missing on the Amnesiac version. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 06:33
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OK, this will probably be the last one from me on this thread. Would you believe me if I told you there was an officially released album from Sly Stone with the following guest musicians, Ray Manzarek (The Doors), Carmine Appice (Vanilla Fudge), Johnny Winter and Jeff Beck. Well, there is. I am the biggest Sly Stone fan since he came out. When this album was released (2011) what was available sounded bad. No credits, just that it was Sly in the studio with other musicians reworking (resurrecting) some of his biggest hits. It was so bad I said, 'I pass' and left it alone. When I came back to it a few years later and saw who was officially on the album I nearly sh*t. For the most part the song reworks are mostly bad. Sly sounds awful on some (there are some moments but don't hold your breath). The release is worth having just for the guest, considering a couple of them are no longer with us. |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 07:43
Good god, that's awful. What a piece of crap ------------- We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain. My face IS a maserati |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: May 08 2022 at 10:31
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Here's a sequence with Whitesnake "Here I Go Again". 1982 from Saints and Sinners. 1987 version from self titled album. And then single mix version that made it onto Greatest Hits album. From Wikipedia:
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 09 2022 at 16:21
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I consider the "remake" of "Tales from Topographic Oceans" to be horrible. I especially dislike that material was added at the beginning of "The Revealing Science of God". I found the original beginning with Anderson singing "Dawn of light lying..." perfect. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 09 2022 at 19:44
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 08:39
No; I mean the 2003 reissue which is not just a remix. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 09:24
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^ Except was that not the original introduction intended for Revealing, but left off the original vinyl only because of time constraints? The word used by the band themselves to describe the two minute introduction was “restored”, which certainly implies it was their preference to have it - even if you thought the song was perfect without it. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 11:38
I sincerely doubt this "time constraints" problem; the extended version is only about two minutes longer. Anyway, I could have lived with this extension. The problem I have is that the whole album was not just remixed (which would not have changed that much), it was obviously re-recorded; the instruments and voices don't play what was originally played on the album. It feels as if a good friend of yours suddenly underwent extreme plastic surgery in the face.
------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 11:55
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Sure. 🙄 The 2003 version was not even a remix, which shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. It was purely a remaster. Yes have stated categorically that it was a remaster only, from the original master tape of the original 1973 Eddie Offord mix. Despite Rock Wakeman’s wish to have some overdubs and re-recordings, this idea was vetoed. There is nothing new, nor remixed, on this version. It is simply a remaster. While the two minute introduction could be viewed as new, the band insisted this was a restoration, rather than an addition. Even ten years later, in a 2013 interview, Anderson talks about the introduction and how the song was edited down from its original length. By using the search facility on PA, I found a thread on the forum where people are talking about this interview, and where a link to the interview is provided, but following it comes up a dead end. I guess it is probably archived somewhere on the web, but I’ve never known how to find archived sites. 🤷🏻♂️ ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 12:40
Nope. I have heard the original so many times; I know every note by heart. The 2003 version is definitely not the same. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 14:45
JD is now in total Indiana Jones mode as he searches the jungles for this 2003 version.  ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 14:50
I don’t have to go too far to find it. I have the cd in my tower in the living room. Good hunting, Indy! [EDIT] I just checked, and you will find it on the Spotify and Amazon streaming platforms, and therefore probably others as well, along with the other versions. So you can contrast and compare to your heart’s content. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 15:04
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Just checked my collection and it looks like I have one from a DL I did years ago. Headphones, here I come. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: May 11 2022 at 05:58
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Well, from what I can discern it all sounds like the original performance. Most notable to me is that Steve Wilson mixed the guitar more up front and with the overall mix cleaned up many of the hidden/buried instrumental parts (like synth) now see new life. This certainly could give the impression of 'New' parts being added, but when listening to the original on my AKG240K headphones I can make out some of the deeper instrumental parts which now shine on the remix. My assessment would be that there are No Added parts to the song (other than the intro waves), only Newly Revealed parts which were lost in the original mix. That being said, I'm not sure which passages specifically BaldFiede feels are new, but sometimes pieces of a song are edited out for various reasons. In Wilson's remix of ELP's Trilogy album, he reinserted an instrumental part into Living Sin that had been edited out, extending the song by a few seconds. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |