Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's assesment of Yes - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Topic: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's assesment of Yes
Posted: January 29 2016 at 17:01

Herb Tarlik was a lovely man.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

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Posted: January 29 2016 at 16:56

Maybe they have guy,s like Herb Tarlik from WKRP in Cincinnati help count the votes at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland!

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Posted: December 25 2015 at 22:56

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Dellinger wrote:

Pure prog, man

I don't really know much Gabriel solo, but I would think your post is sarcastic. I think Genesis would have gone commercial anyway, because Gabriel went commercial, Genesis by themselves went commercial too, and The Lamb already had hints of the band being commercial, since it favor the shorter song format over the extended instrumental passages from their previous albums. Having this in mind, and since for me The Lamb was rather a disapointment because of this very reasons, and given that what little I have heard from Gabriel solo hasn't impressed me at all, I might be controversial and say that I actually doubt I would have liked the 80's Genesis better if Gabriel had stayed than what they actually did. In the end, songs like Mama, Home by the Sea, Land of Confusion, and some others are really great for me, and like them sung by Collins, and I wouldn't have liked the existance or end result of such songs compromised.

Short format doesn't mean less Prog.

Gabriel Genesis wasn't famous for epics as other bands, as a fact they only made one epic in all their career.

The Lamb more than a collection of songs ius a whole story consisting in several parts, no short tracks, The Lamb must be understood as a whole.

Whoever tells me this is not Prog at it's best, must be deaf

[/QUOTE]

No, length of a song doesn't really make it any more prog or good by itself. But often enough, the longer songs (over 7 min, I guess) end up being the ones I love the most, and it isn't that disregard the shorter songs just because of their length, I do give them all their fair chance (just as there are some times I do feel some songs would do good to be shorter, Transatlantic has some songs that could be trimmed by even 10 min, and be better for it, and still be considered epics). However, from Genesis my very favourite songs are "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", and "Cinema Show", I could add "The Knife", "One for the Vine", and some of the 80's output ("Mama", "Home by the Sea", "Land of Confusion")... and "In the Cage", from The Lamb... which happens to be one of the longer songs... still, there are many of the shorter ones that I do like (I actually mentioned two from the 80's), but I don't feel they achieve the same greatness. And The Lamb just isn't as satisfying for me, not only because of it's shorter songs, but there's something that just doesn't click with me (same happens for me with Pink Floyd and "The Wall").

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Posted: December 25 2015 at 21:49

Exactly, length's got nothing to do with it. Knots is more progressive than Scheherazade. And Lamb is one of the most proggy albums of Genesis and filled to the brim with my favourite Genesis tracks, esp Lamia.

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Posted: December 25 2015 at 19:55

Dellinger wrote:

Pure prog, man

Short format doesn't mean less Prog.

Gabriel Genesis wasn't famous for epics as other bands, as a fact they only made one epic in all their career.

The Lamb more than a collection of songs ius a whole story consisting in several parts, no short tracks, The Lamb must be understood as a whole.

Whoever tells me this is not Prog at it's best, must be deaf

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 22:05

lazland wrote:

dr wu23 wrote:

lazland wrote:

Genesis were touring the States regularly when Gabriel was with them. They played the whole of the Lamb, famously, in the US before barely anyone had heard the thing. In our homeland, they were, after Selling England, rising to the top tier of live bands. The issue the rest of them had with him when he left was that they were on the verge of becoming massive. As it happens, they managed that perfectly well without him, ironically

And it would have been interesting to see what direction they went in over the next few albums if Gabriel had stayed around ....would they have remained prog or gone more pop over time as they did with Collins?

Let's think. Gabriel non commercial hit singles....

Solsbury Hill
DIY
Games Without Frontiers
No Self Control
Shock The Monkey
Sledgehammer
Steam
Digging In The Dirt
Kiss That Frog

Pure prog, man

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 16:45

dr wu23 wrote:

Let's think. Gabriel non commercial hit singles....

Solsbury Hill
DIY
Games Without Frontiers
No Self Control
Shock The Monkey
Sledgehammer
Steam
Digging In The Dirt
Kiss That Frog

Pure prog, man

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dr wu23

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 16:07

One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 16:06

oh that they did for sure man! Thumbs Up

Afterall they did have their best albums in front of them which surely helped pave the way to superstardom! Clap

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lazland

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 16:03

micky wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

Genesis were added before Rush. And seeing as Watcher of the Skies was performed at their induction, it's not clear that the Gabriel years had nothing to do with it.

As a fact, Peter Gabriel is also in the hall for his solo work.

Iván

which would make excluding him from the group's induction, as he left before Genesis became known

Genesis were touring the States regularly when Gabriel was with them. They played the whole of the Lamb, famously, in the US before barely anyone had heard the thing. In our homeland, they were, after Selling England, rising to the top tier of live bands. The issue the rest of them had with him when he left was that they were on the verge of becoming massive. As it happens, they managed that perfectly well without him, ironically

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Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 15:53

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

Genesis were added before Rush. And seeing as Watcher of the Skies was performed at their induction, it's not clear that the Gabriel years had nothing to do with it.

As a fact, Peter Gabriel is also in the hall for his solo work.

Iván

which would make excluding him from the group's induction, as he left before Genesis became known, would very tricky as opposed to leaving off the Joe-6 Packs of the musical world that played with other groups and weren't associated with the classic lineups that offered up the work that served as the basis for their induction.

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 08:18

dr wu23 wrote:

"The most frequent criticism of the Hall of Fame is that the nomination process is controlled by a few individuals who are not themselves musicians, such as founder Jann Wenner (co-founder and editor-in-chief ofRolling Stone magazine); former foundation director Suzan Evans; and writer Dave Marsh, reflecting their personal tastes rather than the views of the rock world as a whole. A former member of the nominations board once commented that "At one point Suzan Evans lamented the choices being made because there weren't enough big names that would sell tickets to the dinner. That was quickly remedied by dropping one of the doo-wop groups being considered in favor of a 'name' artist ... I saw how certain pioneering artists of the '50s and early '60s were shunned because there needed to be more name power on the list, resulting in '70s superstars getting in before the people who made it possible for them. Some of those pioneers still aren't in today." Sister Rosetta Tharpe is considered "The Godmother/Grandmother of Rock & Roll" by most music observers, but has yet to be inducted, as the influential soul/funk group Tower of Power has not yet been honored.^[31]

I love this part. Seriously, since their boundaries of what defines rock & roll have been stretched beyond meaning anyways, they should just do away with the "25 year eligibility" rule and induct Adele and Taylor Swift next year. They can sell the dinner seats for a small fortune and still fill the hall, accusations of gender bias will be muted, and more tween-types will drag their parents to the RRHoF to see all those wonderful dresses worn by their idols on display. Plus it will piss off Kanye West...always a good thing. Like, who really even cares anymore?

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Posted: December 23 2015 at 01:01

rogerthat wrote:

Genesis were added before Rush. And seeing as Watcher of the Skies was performed at their induction, it's not clear that the Gabriel years had nothing to do with it.

As a fact, Peter Gabriel is also in the hall for his solo work.

Iván

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Posted: December 22 2015 at 17:11

you operate on a higher plain of existence than me darling.. me knuckedragger.. you educated... I had no idea I was taking us into the land of mistranslations.. perhaps not as fun and interesting as the almighty cucumber but hey.. the key to thread derailment is to go with the flow and let it go where it wants to go. LOL

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Posted: December 22 2015 at 17:08

OK, if we're mentioning mistranslations from Asian languages into English, I think this one simply can't be beat:

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Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:58

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Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:50

hahah.. guess that was true then.

btw.. how the hell can one hate something as ... boring.. as a cucumber. Does it even have a taste. It is the chicken of vegetables and so boring they are more exciting as sex toys than as food. (so I've heard of course)

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Hercules

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Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:49

dr wu23 wrote:

Looked it up on Wiki...that bastion of truth and info...... Wink

...

"A nominating committee composed of rock and roll historians selects names for the "Performers" category (singers, vocal groups, bands, and instrumentalists of all kinds), which are then voted on by roughly five hundred experts across the world. Those selected to vote include academics, journalists, producers, and others with music industry experience. Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists' contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll. To be selected for induction, performers must receive the highest number of votes, and also greater than 50% of the votes. Around five to seven performers are inducted each year."

"The most frequent criticism of the Hall of Fame is that the nomination process is controlled by a few individuals who are not themselves musicians, such as founder Jann Wenner (co-founder and editor-in-chief ofRolling Stone magazine); former foundation director Suzan Evans; and writer Dave Marsh, reflecting their personal tastes rather than the views of the rock world as a whole. A former member of the nominations board once commented that "At one point Suzan Evans lamented the choices being made because there weren't enough big names that would sell tickets to the dinner. That was quickly remedied by dropping one of the doo-wop groups being considered in favor of a 'name' artist ... I saw how certain pioneering artists of the '50s and early '60s were shunned because there needed to be more name power on the list, resulting in '70s superstars getting in before the people who made it possible for them. Some of those pioneers still aren't in today." Sister Rosetta Tharpe is considered "The Godmother/Grandmother of Rock & Roll" by most music observers, but has yet to be inducted, as the influential soul/funk group Tower of Power has not yet been honored.^[31]

There is also controversy in the lack of transparency in the selection process. Janet Morrissey of The New York Times wrote, "With fame and money at stake, it's no surprise that a lot of backstage lobbying goes on. Why any particular act is chosen in any particular year is a mystery to performers as well as outsiders – and committee members say they want to keep it that way." Jon Landau, the chairman of the nominating committee, says they prefer it that way. "We've done a good job of keeping the proceedings nontransparent. It all dies in the room."^[32]

According to Fox News, petitions with tens of thousands of signatures were also being ignored, and some groups that were signed with certain labels or companies or were affiliated with various committee members have even been put up for nomination with no discussion at all.^[31] The committee has also been accused of largely ignoring certain genres.^[33] According to author Brett Milano, "entire genres get passed over, particularly progressive rock, '60s Top 40, New Orleans funk and a whole lot of black music."^[34]

Another criticism is that too many artists are inducted. In fifteen years, 97 different artists were inducted.^[35] A minimum of 50% of the vote is needed to be inducted; although, the final percentages are not announced and a certain number of inductees (five in 2011) is set before the ballots are shipped.^[35] The committee usually nominates a small number of artists (12 in 2010) from an increasing number of different genres. Several voters, including Joel Selvin, himself a former member of the nominating committee, did not submit their ballots in 2007 because they did not feel that any of the candidates were truly worthy.^[36]

Members of the British punk rock band Sex Pistols, inducted in 2006, refused to attend the ceremony, calling the museum "a piss stain" and "urine in wine".^[37]

In BBC Radio 6 Music's Annual John Peel Lecture in 2013, the singer Charlotte Church accused the museum of gender bias, stating, "Out of 295 acts and artists in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame, 259 are entirely male, meaning that Tina Weymouth's part in Talking Heads makes them one of the 36 female acts."^[38]^[39] In fact, the actual percentage of woman inductees is a scant 8.5%.^[40] Combining all the categories, there have been 719 inductees, out of which only 61 have been women, none of which has been inducted more than once or awarded the Lifetime Achievement"."

I guess that answers my question......

Stern Smile

Isn't that f*****t Robert "Dean of rock critics" Christgau involved as well? Judging by the floods of excrement that come out of his oral orifice, the choices mirror his tastes very accurately.

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Hercules

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Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:42

micky wrote:

I hate f*****g cucumbers.

Which may be why I'm overweight, have diabetes, suffer from gout and have bloody awful digestion.

Bad decision.

A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.

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Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:22

Dellinger wrote:

This is nice. I usually have the impression that in movies, and videogames, they aren't really so interested in getting things historically acurate, but rather visually impressive... or whatever the directors vision tells him would be better than acuracy.

perhaps in movies... it is all about making money man.

videogames? Can't speak to that..I stopped playing those many many years ago.. but boardgaming. You never grow out of that once bitten. THose are labors of love made by gamers and history freaks for gamers and history freaks.

you damn well better be right and accurate as possible for .there is always someone out there who knows as much or more than you do. Clap

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