Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's assesment of Yes
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=105167
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Topic: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's assesment of Yes
Posted By: emigre80
Subject: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's assesment of Yes
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 21:51
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Pulled this from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (let's all groan now and get it out of the way) website. Yes came in second, after Chicago, in the fan voting section. What do you think of their summary? Yes is the most enduring, ambitious and virtuosic progressive band in rock history. By fusing the cinematic soundscapes of King Crimson with the hard rock edge of The Who and the soaring harmonies and melodies of Simon and Garfunkel, they took progressive rock from a small audience of aficionados to radio airwaves and football stadiums all over America. Hits like “Roundabout” and “I’ve Seen All Good People” appealed to rock fans who did not even think they liked prog rock, while album-side length epics like “Close To The Edge” and “The Gates Of Delirium” represent the genre at its absolute finest. Steve Howe remains one of the most underrated guitarists in rock history, while keyboardist Rick Wakeman, bassist Chris Squire and drummers Bill Bruford and Alan White will always be regarded as musicians simply without peer. Frontman Jon Anderson is an alto tenor singer who still hits the highest of high notes 45 years after forming the group. While many of their contemporaries wilted once punk hit, Yes managed to change with the times, and they reemerged in the 80s as an MTV-ready commercial force, landing massive hits on the charts like “Owner Of A Lonely Heart.” While prog giants like Pink Floyd, Genesis and Emerson Lake & Palmer retired years ago, Yes continues to tour (albeit with some new members) at a pace that would leave bands half their age breathless. - See more at: https://rockhall.com/inductees/nominees/2016-yes/#sthash.MiTY2L2w.dpuf" rel="nofollow - https://rockhall.com/inductees/nominees/2016-yes/#sthash.MiTY2L2w.dpuf Discuss freely.
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Replies:
Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 22:04
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I hope they induct them, even if it's meaningless I don't like seeing some talentless hacks in it and one of the greatest bands ever being ignored. It already annoys me Chris won't be able to be there in case they're inducted. ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 23:04
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They really deserve it, and they have deserved it for a long time. However, it really won't mean much if they are inducted, as there are tons of bands that don't deserve to be there. There are even some bands and artists in there that have nothing to do with rock music. |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 23:13
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Actually, I wasn't asking about whether Yes should be inducted (so obvious it isn't worth discussing) but how they are presented here. Is "Yes is the most enduring, ambitious and virtuosic progressive band in rock history" or do you have a different opinion? I'm totally on board with "Steve Howe remains one of the most underrated guitarists in rock history," except maybe on this website. Otherwise it's spot on.
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 23:29
They are spot on about Yes. Not so sure about Steve Howe, he was 5 x world champion (as per Ian Gillan describing Steve Morse's winning the Guitar Player polls for all time - a default status after 5 years so someone else can win). Howe is highly rated, accurately rated and deservedly so. Still, it's one way of the R and R HoF to prompt a more general interest in Yes. Slightly OT why did the HoF when inducting Van Halen think it a good idea to ignore the David Roth era (the bit that got them the fame in the first place. Just visited there recently and thought that was a bit strange.) Enjoyed the Genesis bit though; a fine feature. |
emigre80 wrote:Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 23:57
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It is asinine that the RRHoF hasn't inducted Yes yet. Or Chicago. Or Jethro Tull. Or Deep Purple. Or the Moody Blues. These bands are owed an apology for the electors being tw*ts and nitwits. The RRHoF can go f*ck themselves. Or itself, as the case may be. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 02:14
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I thnk Mr.Lifeson summed things up pretty well. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 04:39
| Fair to say only he remembered his rock and roll rebellion roots that night. Terrific sense of humour, didn't expect that from him. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 04:59
He's always had that, didn't you ever notice that in every Rush gig there is a moment where Alex and Geddy start joking around? In an interview, I think on the Rush in Rio DVD he said about Geddy: "He sings, plays pedals with his feet, bass with one hand and keys with the other. That leaves one limb unaccounted for and I don't want to know what he does with that". As for the topic of this thread, I stopped reading after this "they took progressive rock from a small audience of aficionados to radio airwaves and football stadiums all over America."  ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to info@iskcrocks.com |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 05:08
| I guess I am not tuned into what their live act actually feels like, since I have never seen them. And based on Exit Stage, didn't feel too enthused about checking out more of their live work because it sounded like a very close reproduction of their studio songs without much variation. But that quote you mention now from Rush in Rio also sounds funny. |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 05:22
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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:04
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I don't know if I'm 100% with this statement: "Alan White will always be regarded as musician(s) simply without peer"
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:18
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Chicago isn't in... wow!!!! anyhow.. I suppose Yes will be the first prog band added... they'll be the one that will break the ice. Perhaps Crimson as few outside of prog know them.. as a bit of backdoor icebreaker... then ELP after those two for sure. The ELP hate still does run deep..  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:22
| Genesis were added before Rush. And seeing as Watcher of the Skies was performed at their induction, it's not clear that the Gabriel years had nothing to do with it. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:31
Are you serious? Had they disbanded when Gabriel left, or even when Hackett left, the only way the band would be in the RRHoF is to take a bus to Cleveland and buy tickets at the door. They would be just another Brit prog eccentricity like ELP, Tull, Crimson and Yes -- uncool to the NY critic scene. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:32
| I am not denying that, just saying that Genesis' prog roots were in fact acknowledged at the induction. They could have very well played Mama at the induction, though Phish may not have agreed to perform that song. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:35
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exactly man. Genesis was added for their only lasting value.. for they were a damn great one...as a pop band. Same with Rush.. and a arena rock band. If they had remained prog.. they would have never got near the HoF. we are talking prog bands... bands know as prog bands. Seen as prog bands. Not bands that dipped a toe in early and left for fame in what they did best.. either playing pop songs or filling arenas with AOR albums. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:36
| You could make the same argument about Yes, though. Their 'finest' hour in the eyes of RRHOF was Owner of a lonely fart as Hugues called it in his review. In that case, we need to wait for King Crimson to get added since even Discipline lacks the requisite pop sell out cred. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:45
so the song became a pop hit... nevermind that the album it came from was chock full of great prog songs and was received warmly by old fans.. as well as bringing new legions of fans to yes.. who naturally moved backwards to catch up with the group. The subtle context being.. it wasn't that different.. was not a WFT musical statement from them. The secret weapon of Yes always had been... they wrote great songs. They were the first prog pop band.  They just 20 minutes to express what others only had talent enough to make interesting for 3 minutes.The point is.. Yes never became anything other than a prog band.. really in truth but more importantly in overall perception. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:49
| Respectfully I disagree. Without selling out they may not have made it through the 80s. You call making 6 prog albums before going pop " dipped a toe in early and left for fame in what they did best." but soft peddle 90125 - that's just the Yes fan in you talking, micky. The only two big bands that came out unscathed from the 80s without compromising were KC and VDGG. It's arguable just how big VDGG were but that also shows the limited commercial appeal of 'pure prog' as of today. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:50
| I actually quite like 90125, personally, but come on I have heard Owner of a Lonely Heart on the VH1 morning playlist. They wouldn't touch prog with a bargepole. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:52
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The contrary and arbitrary nature of the voters of this sham have shown their hypocrisy over and over. What is the election based on, record sales? Influence? Popularity in mainstream? Popularity for a few beatniks in their mother's basement? Or a flawed and biased group of tw*ts who continue to vote in performers who do not exhibit rock tendencies and who were never considered rock performers in the first place (like every rap group considered, for instance). Explain to me why a rock band that has a song "I'm Just a Singer in a Rock and Roll Band", the Moody Blues, not in the Hall? Was seven platinum albums, several gold albums and many hit singles not good enough for...for what? What is the criteria? Who the f*ck is handling the ballots, this band sold over 70 million albums, by Christ's cullions! You could say the same for Jethro Tull or Deep Purple: number one albums, platinum albums, multi-million albums sold, arenas and stadiums filled, songs that stand the test of time (and I believe everyone in the rock world knows the songs "Smoke on the Water" and "Aqualung" -- if those aren't rock standards, I don't know what is). ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 07:58
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what is there to disagree with Roger.. the proof is sort of in the pudding man. do we imagine the venom Genesis fans have for their heroes leaving prog for the bright lights of pop stardom do a certain element of Rush fans still bitch that Rush left prog and became a slick AOR band. prog fans still hold on to those early albums.. the rest of the musical world moved on and saw them for what they became and make their 'names' as. find me a thread here.. or anywhere.. even some sense of internet sentiment that Yes became either of those. They didn't and there isn't.. again one of the reasons Yes is seen as the quintessential prog band. It is for their longevity in the field as well as their glory days output.. otherwise it would likely be ELP for they debatably were the only band that could trump Yes for shear importance and impact on defining and popularizing 70's prog rock ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:14
| I have never actually come across that AOR complaint re Rush. Just that at some point they stopped being interesting, just more and more and still more of the same. But I am not interested in prog fans' perceptions here. The simple point is it is possible for somebody to only know Yes from Owner of.. as it is to know Genesis as the band that recorded We can't dance. You cannot say the same for KC or VDGG. And guess what, you can't say the same for Rush either. Their big breakthrough album Moving Pictures is oh so respectable compared to what Yes and Genesis did in the 80s. They crossed over smoothly as Floyd had done a decade earlier. We have to keep personal likes and dislikes aside here if we are going to draw some line as to what is and what isn't a full fledged prog rock band. If the criterion is so strict as to have come out of the 80s without going pop, neither Yes nor Genesis qualify. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:21
When it comes down to it, why wasn't Rush, Yes, Genesis, ELP, etc. not inducted decades ago? Donna Summers is in the Hall, what the f*ck for? Who ever considered her a rock performer? Chaka Khan is up for election -- when did you ever consider her music rock and roll by any stretch of the imagination (when she herself would probably tell you she wasn't a rock performer)? ABBA? Oh, their lasting influence on the rock idiom is immeasurable! Without them, we wouldn't have the Ace of Base. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:26
I didn't say it wasn't a minority camp of Rush fans. If we know anything about 'Rush fan' it is their passion and loyalty to the group. They haven't done anything remotely interesting since the early 90's but tell that to Rush fan and the fur will fly!!! I know that. I married one!  There always has been a small element of the fanbase that still wishes they'd do a album today circa 1978. you are exactly right and that is the point I am trying to make. Prog fans perceptions of it don't matter. That is why Genesis and Rush are not seen as prog bands by anyone other than fans of the group or simply of their earlier material. Unlike those bands... Yes actually was known to music fans well before the 80's and OOALH. They were right there with the biggest bands in all rock during the 70's so that argument comparing them and the album to albums like Moving Pictures and pick whatever 80's Genesis album doesn't wash. The song and album did give them a taste of the pop lifestyle... but they had long solified their place in music and continued to do so. Again.. it wasn't a radical departure for them. Unlike other prog bands... success was achieved by simply remaining who they were.. not a stylistic departure that left the band and sound unrecognizable to fans of the earlier work. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:35
| Again, if you did listen to Owner of a Lonely Heart straight after CTTE, it WOULD be unrecognizable but for Anderson's voice. There are other songs like Leave It which very much have the Yes trademark but not Owner. I am not blaming them for it and imo they did it well but that necessarily involved temporarily casting aside their prog legacy. And as for why they didn't get the kind of flak for it as did Genesis, it's probably a lot more complicated than just what Yes did stylistically. For one, they handled the change more gracefully and didn't stop playing older material. Banks boasting that those 80s albums (which are now so dated even RRHOF couldn't bear to play them and chose a prog classic for their induction instead) were where they really learned to write music properly or something to that effect cannot have helped matters. Genesis were rather defensive in handling the heat from older fans. Yes weren't. And Yes failed with Big Generator and jumped at the chance to go back to prog. Genesis kept succeeding at pop and continued with it. Who's to say what would have happened in an alternative scenario where Yes did sustain themselves as a pop outfit? Today nobody talks about Camera Camera/Timeline because they were such massive turkeys. But what if they had succeeded? Does their failure change the fact that the band chose to go commercial at the point? No. Same goes with Yes. Compared even to Drama, 90125 is a decidedly more commercial effort. They did it more tastefully than Genesis and full props to them for that but it's still commercial. It's fine if you don't see it that way and we can stop here. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:40
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no no no... give prog fan some credit. Especially fans of Yes. Yes IMO is one of the most misunderstood bands in prog. Starting with their classification here as a 'symphonic' group. Bullsh*t. Best example... you brought it up. Close to the Edge. If one was to look a bit deeper.. and this is prog.. we are in some degrees .. prog fans. So we do look deeper.. and if one does. What does one see... Yes have always at their heart... have not been interested in fusing classical and rock. but POP and rock. That is why Owner of a Lonely Heart was eaten up by old fans.. little different from they have done.. just shorter and with 80's Trevor Rabin production (the pros and cons of THAT are another discussion ). The point again.. it was Yes enough that old fans were not turned off by it. http://www.progarchives.com/review.asp?id=197285" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/review.asp?id=197285 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:43
| That it is essentially a pop song repeated enough times until it gets up to 18 minutes still doesn't make it commercial in that radio-ready sense that it is implied. You will not get an average pop listening fellow to get past that Steve Howe solo, for starters. Where's the CLASSICAL in Owner of a Lonely Heart since you mentioned classical-rock fusion? Any random band from the 80s could have written that song and that's the point. It is strange that one of the most bland creations of Yes achieved so much success but then pop IS bland a lot of times. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:50
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bland? It is a great song man! Oh well. Anyhow.. lots of bands had hits in the 80's and aren't getting into the HoF. When Yes gets it it won't be because of that song or that album.. it will for their work in the 70's.. and for the nearly 50 years they spent flying the prog rock flag when others had long since faded to obscurity or moved on stylistically. Prog has been shut out of the HoF. When those who have the axe to be ground against it die off.. prog bands will go in. Suspect Yes will rightfully be the first ... of the big 3.. Yes, K.C., ELP. Cheers Roger ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 08:54
| That I don't disagree with - that they won't get it for 90125 because their pop stretch was too short compared to Genesis. But as far as 80s bands, I don't know, man, the mainstream air is thick with the stench of the 80s. I heard Pompeii quite by accident the other day and I swear the beats could be right out of MJ's Bad album or a zillion other dance pop albums from the decade. Bruno Mars doesn't attempt in the slightest to disguise his MJ influence. If Wham! were to get included in the RRHOF, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Or Spandau Ballet or some other 80s horror. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 09:08
Pretty good summary for what it is. Yes were never my fave prog band (far from it), but I recognise their importance to the genre. They don't need the stamp from this worthless bunch of music hacks. The RnRHoF has pretty much lost all credibility ever since it started inducting acts like Hall & Oates, ABBA, Public Enemy, Run DMC and Madonna. I have zero respect for this supposed 'Hall of Fame' that apparently doesn't posses the hearing power to distinguish rock n roll from disco and hip hop ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2015 at 09:26
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the crux of the biscuit Roger is that while can say Yes did a pop album(s) (think Big Generator is a better example than 90125, which had a pop song.. but that wasn't a pop album).. the difference is of course.. while they have done pop albums..1 or 2 whatever...one can say they never really became a pop band. Never lost hardcore 70's fans for the foundational basis of their music, right from their debut, always was pop. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: AnimeGirl
Date Posted: December 14 2015 at 05:20
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I was shocked when I found out they weren't already in. Even more shocked to learn they don't win #1 Pretty sure they also have never even held a vote for Moody Blues to get in, they are kind of rude people over there |
Posted By: Rushman
Date Posted: December 14 2015 at 08:34
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It is a good summation of the band. Seeing that they mention both Bruford and White in the article make me think both would get inducted if Yes makes it, along with Anderson, Squire, Howe, and Wakeman.
I don't think any of the other members should get in, Rabin maybe? |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: December 14 2015 at 08:58
much ado about nothing. It's the "rock and roll" hall of fame, not the great rock music hall of fame. 
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: December 14 2015 at 09:26
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The pop duo Hall & Oates were admitted to the RRHOF, so when I learned that, I lost all interest in the thing. Clearly it is a commercial scam with no basis in reality. Members of PA have a much deeper appreciation of the history of all rock, including Prog, than anyone associated with that mess. Count me as "disinterested."
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: December 16 2015 at 05:48
You've got to be British or European 'cos the notion of VdGG being "big" to anyone living in the States is a non-starter (they are at least known, respected, and play decent-sized auditoriums across the pond even though they've never had anything close to a hit, with a very few exceptions). I would think Chicago, and the Moodies should be shoe-ins. Yes is a tough one (so much ridicule over the years, based on accusations of boring pomposity originating with Tales and going on from there). Tull's rep has really taken a nose-dive over the years with critics. All these groups have sold in the millions, but being a critic's darling has a lot more to do with it. That's probably a sad state of affairs but it is what it is. I mean, Laura Nyro is in the HOF. I like her a lot but her records didn't sell and most people have no idea who she is. ------------- jc |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 16 2015 at 06:19
Yep, that pretty much sums it up for me as well. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 16 2015 at 12:19
With this and your later post you are on a roll (no pun intended..).....it simply boggles the mind that bands like the Moody Blues , Jethro Tull and Yes ...as well as others, weren't inducted years ago. Question for all here but who exactly determines who gets nominated and who gets in..? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: December 16 2015 at 13:18
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That olive drab write up was prepared by a hack which doesn't surprise me when associated with the so-called "Hall of Fame." That organization is the biggest laugh-out-loud entity around. Those that give it credence should be taken out back and flogged (and then given an ice cream cone to stop the crying). ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: December 16 2015 at 14:21
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Prog was fashionable for a short time decades ago, and then denigrated by critic's darlings, the punks. So prog became uncool, and no critic can afford to be thought uncool. Yes was later embraced by the mainstream only when they did more pop, just like Genesis, which is why they're remembered beyond our little family here. I have an Animal House film comparison--the R&RHOF is like the stuck-up Omega Theta Pi fraternity whilst we are the Deltas. Go do your little ceremonies while we'll just listen to the greatest music ever.
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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: December 17 2015 at 11:19
http://rockhall.com/inductees/%20" rel="nofollow - http://rockhall.com/inductees/
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 17 2015 at 12:19
+1 ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: December 17 2015 at 13:05
| Some stupid with a flare gun should burn the place to the ground.... |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: December 17 2015 at 21:19
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Speaking of which, Deep Purple is now in, along with Chicago, Cheap Trick, The Steve Miller Band and NWA. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 17 2015 at 22:07
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It seems the inductees have been chosen... once again Yes is not among them. http://buffalo.com/2015/12/17/news/music/rock-hall-to-get-five-worthy-inductees-but-misses-one/ |
Posted By: A_Flower
Date Posted: December 17 2015 at 22:50
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Sucks cause they were too late for Chris Squire to have the honor. And they STILL won't put Yes in. Yes should be though. They top all the other bands all the way. Wouldn't it be nice if the 2017 indictees were Yes, King Crimson, Kansas, Jethro Tull, and ELP? N.W.A should NOT have gotten in. They are rap. Not rock. Big difference. They're only getting in cause they had a big movie this year and it would make a lot of people watch. Might as well induct Star Wars while your at it... |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 18 2015 at 22:24
| At least star wars has better music... well, I don't even know who NWA are, but being rap I'm sure I'll be liking the music from Star Wars better. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 03:24
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Re: NWA's induction, it looks like the Hall of Fame also includes artists that technically speaking aren't rock music but still are influential enough on the genre to be a part of its history. Sort of like the "Proto-Prog" and "Prog Related" categories on this website. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 07:03
about damn time Chicago got in  and NWA rulz man... perhaps they will put their plaque next to the Allman Brother's one... go figure.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: A_Flower
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 09:01
| I'm not saying I don't like N.W.A. I think they have good opinions and all. But I just feel like them being inducted right after there big movie makes it seem like the Rock Hall is just trying to get money and attention. Also, I honestly just don't like rap over all. I respect it, but I don't like it |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 13:12
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well in all fairness.. ie.. a functioning rational mind. Rap is more akin to rock and roll than prog is. Remember man.. rock and roll is an american art form and whose root is rebellion and anger and getting jiggy with it. Not a bunch of euros overintellecualizing what is ..has.. and always be something that is based on emotion and reality of everyday life.. not the intellect and hippy drippy philosophizing... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 13:33
No, Micky, I will have to disagree -- and for all intents and purposes, I believe I have a functioning rational mind (even with evidence to the contrary ).Rock and Roll is certainly an American art form originally, that diverged from blues roots in the 50s, and progressed along different lines to eventually encompass the prog rock of the 70s. The prog-rock bands of the 70s like Yes, ELP, Genesis, Tull, and whoever, will tell you they were indeed rock bands, just like The Beatles, Sabbath, Zeppelin and The Who. Nobody in the 60s or 70s differentiated them as separate entities, or considered them as some kind of different music, whatever trappings they added to the rock form. However, rap is and has never been a rock form -- it originated from black funk and R&B roots in the 70s. The original rap groups would laugh at you if you insisted they had anything whatsoever to do with "rock" or "rock and roll". There may have been efforts to fuse rap and rock later on (like Run-DMC, or even much later Kid Rock), but that's just it, an attempt to fuse two disparate genres.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 13:42
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I didn't say it was a rock form.. I just made the point that some, like those that decide such things likely consider it far more akin in spirit to rock than prog is. Do people really think people hate prog.. no. hardly.. but what they likely do think that prog has very little to do with the spirit of rock and roll. Add in a likely bias and acceptace of and to american deviations from the rock and roll 'norm' than those that were euro-centric and it is no surprise prog has got the cold shoulder from the HoF. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 13:50
I think the "Rock and Roll of Fame" is a misnomer and should be changed post-haste. It should be referred to as the "Pop Music Hall of Fame" and forget about any pretense of rock or rock and roll with all the inane revisionism and homogenization and back flip rationalizations it uses to add acts that never were considered rock or rock and roll (and performers who never considered themselves to be either). Because rock and roll it ain't. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 13:55
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sure.. and once you accept that it is not. Life becomes much simpler.. with each year a new batch of bands gets inducted.. some get left off.. and our lives go on... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 14:12
But...but...that would remove all our righteous rock 'n' roll indignation against the establishment, dude. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 14:32
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------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 20:17
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I care about as much as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as I have the desire to screw a chimpanzee or hang out at the DMV... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 19 2015 at 22:42
OK... I hope that means you don't care about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at all, otherwise I would be really worried about the integrity of poor chimpanzees. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 10:51
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I grabbed this from another site, but I think Ian Gillan's thoughts regarding Deep Purple being elected into the RRHoF to be hilarious...and...rather...dispassionate. http://gillan.com/friends58.html" rel="nofollow - http://gillan.com/friends58.html ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 11:30
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Yeah, I was gonna ask when it would be brought up that Deep Purple have been inducted there too. For what it's worth, Jim Derogatis' book on rock music in the 1990s - titled Milk It after the Nirvana song - contains a hilarious essay sarcastically dropkicking the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame which was written around 1997 or so. Though at this point making fun of the RNRHoF must be like shooting fish in a barrel! ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 13:24
So if they had inducted Yes, I wonder which band members they would have included and which excluded? thank goodness we are spared the pain of debating those choices.
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Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 13:29
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Hall of Fame, Hall of Shame, Hall of Lame! Whatever! --Higher forms of music like Prog rock deserves something much better; we don't need TRRHOF! We have the millions plus world-wide fans, record sales, and bands that can easily fill up Wembly Stadiums, Palais des Sport, and other ginormous venues! Whoever the electors are need to look a little closer and see that Prog has the greatest musicians & artists in the world to exclude so many deserving that are still around and still going strong - It was nice that Genesis & Peter Gabriel have already been inducted - Its a start, so maybe there still is hope... ------------- - Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats - |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 15:57
| Maybe we should start a prog hall of fame. we can run it out of my basement....it's a very large basement. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 17:33
Yes. It's a joke. Many of the bands in there don't deserve to be and lots who deserve to be in there aren't.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 19:28
That might work. Most of the fan base is used to living in the basement. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 20:15
true, but it used to be our parents' basement, and now it's our kids'
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 20 2015 at 22:22
***Perhaps my question was missed first time around but can anyone tell me who nominates the bands and who votes on those bands getting in?*** Is it by the members or the public or what...? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 11:38
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Uh...13 hours and no one has an answer.....and here I thought PA members knew everything. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 11:44
| I know nothing. Absolutely bugger all. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 12:02
Looked it up on Wiki...that bastion of truth and info...... ..."A nominating committee composed of rock and roll historians selects names for the "Performers" category (singers, vocal groups, bands, and instrumentalists of all kinds), which are then voted on by roughly five hundred experts across the world. Those selected to vote include academics, journalists, producers, and others with music industry experience. Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists' contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll. To be selected for induction, performers must receive the highest number of votes, and also greater than 50% of the votes. Around five to seven performers are inducted each year." "The most frequent criticism of the Hall of Fame is that the nomination process is controlled by a few individuals who are not themselves musicians, such as founder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jann_Wenner" rel="nofollow - Jann Wenner (co-founder and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor-in-chief" rel="nofollow - editor-in-chief of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Stone" rel="nofollow - Rolling Stone magazine); former foundation director Suzan Evans; and writer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Marsh" rel="nofollow - Dave Marsh , reflecting their personal tastes rather than the views of the rock world as a whole. A former member of the nominations board once commented that "At one point Suzan Evans lamented the choices being made because there weren't enough big names that would sell tickets to the dinner. That was quickly remedied by dropping one of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doo-wop" rel="nofollow - doo-wop groups being considered in favor of a 'name' artist ... I saw how certain pioneering artists of the '50s and early '60s were shunned because there needed to be more name power on the list, resulting in '70s superstars getting in before the people who made it possible for them. Some of those pioneers still aren't in today." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Rosetta_Tharpe" rel="nofollow - Sister Rosetta Tharpe is considered "The Godmother/Grandmother of Rock & Roll" by most music observers, but has yet to be inducted, as the influential soul/funk group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Power" rel="nofollow - Tower of Power has not yet been honored. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-Friedman-31" rel="nofollow - [31] There is also controversy in the lack of transparency in the selection process. Janet Morrissey of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times" rel="nofollow - The New York Times wrote, "With fame and money at stake, it's no surprise that a lot of backstage lobbying goes on. Why any particular act is chosen in any particular year is a mystery to performers as well as outsiders – and committee members say they want to keep it that way." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Landau" rel="nofollow - Jon Landau , the chairman of the nominating committee, says they prefer it that way. "We've done a good job of keeping the proceedings nontransparent. It all dies in the room." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-32" rel="nofollow - [32] According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News" rel="nofollow - Fox News , petitions with tens of thousands of signatures were also being ignored, and some groups that were signed with certain labels or companies or were affiliated with various committee members have even been put up for nomination with no discussion at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-Friedman-31" rel="nofollow - [31] The committee has also been accused of largely ignoring certain genres. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-33" rel="nofollow - [33] According to author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Milano" rel="nofollow - Brett Milano , "entire genres get passed over, particularly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - progressive rock , '60s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_40" rel="nofollow - Top 40 , New Orleans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk" rel="nofollow - funk and a whole lot of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-American_music" rel="nofollow - black music ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-34" rel="nofollow - [34] Another criticism is that too many artists are inducted. In fifteen years, 97 different artists were inducted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-Bream-35" rel="nofollow - [35] A minimum of 50% of the vote is needed to be inducted; although, the final percentages are not announced and a certain number of inductees (five in 2011) is set before the ballots are shipped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-Bream-35" rel="nofollow - [35] The committee usually nominates a small number of artists (12 in 2010) from an increasing number of different genres. Several voters, including https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Selvin" rel="nofollow - Joel Selvin , himself a former member of the nominating committee, did not submit their ballots in 2007 because they did not feel that any of the candidates were truly worthy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-36" rel="nofollow - [36] Members of the British https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock" rel="nofollow - punk rock band https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_Pistols" rel="nofollow - Sex Pistols , inducted in 2006, refused to attend the ceremony, calling the museum "a piss stain" and "urine in wine". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-37" rel="nofollow - [37] In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Radio_6_Music" rel="nofollow - BBC Radio 6 Music 's Annual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Peel" rel="nofollow - John Peel Lecture in 2013, the singer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Church" rel="nofollow - Charlotte Church accused the museum of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_bias" rel="nofollow - gender bias , stating, "Out of 295 acts and artists in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame, 259 are entirely male, meaning that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Weymouth" rel="nofollow - Tina Weymouth 's part in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Heads" rel="nofollow - Talking Heads makes them one of the 36 female acts." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-38" rel="nofollow - [38] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-39" rel="nofollow - [39] In fact, the actual percentage of woman inductees is a scant 8.5%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#cite_note-40" rel="nofollow - [40] Combining all the categories, there have been 719 inductees, out of which only 61 have been women, none of which has been inducted more than once or awarded the Lifetime Achievement"." I guess that answers my question......
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 12:42
same here! I only know what I do not know.------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 12:52
I think this is one of the few times where the Sex Pistols' reaction was too nice.
------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 14:24
Those guys knew when to pick their moments to be tactful.
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Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 14:26
except about WWI. I do have one very limited area of expertise. Other than that and the complete lyrics to Tales from Topographic Oceans, my mind is one great big blank space.
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 14:44
looking forward to hear Phish (or folding hands' Jamiroquai!!) does a memorable honory of playing 'A Hit by Varese' or 'Introduction' and i feel Pankow, Loughane, Parstzaider, Lahm Cetera and drummer (does not remember name) is honoured well for their contribution to jazz-rock. Also a nice post-memorial to Kath  . Probably the most versitile band 70s mainstreem rock will ever see (imho)-------------  
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 14:49
that is the great thing of the life of a scholar.. you never rest on what you know.. it is all about what you do NOT know. I have spent an entire adult life learning about the eastern front of ww2 and still today I am learning new things. My project now (for a game design) is placing the exact 22 June location of ever single Soviet unit west of the Urals to help make the game design correct and accurate Also one of the reasons I love my job (except on days when I hate it). You can do work like mine for years (now 20 for me) and still you learn new things nearly every day. A strong... STRONG appeal to someone like me that feels the need to be challenged and have challenges. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 14:53
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I know everything there is to know about cucumbers. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 14:58
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I'll take Cucumbers for $1000 Alex.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 16:25
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Hmmm..that's a real pickle you got yourself into. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 16:43
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Hmmm...I have a feeling this entire cucumber discussion will lead directly to tossed salad. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 16:47
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ewwww..... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 17:55
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think about piclkle your nose with cucumbers, its better to stay chilli then fermented peppers. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 18:03
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 18:36
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To answer dr wu's question, just artists and industry people, who must vote from within a set of bands nominated by the RRHOF committee. http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/induction-process/
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 19:10
bah Roger...  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 21 2015 at 20:56
This is nice. I usually have the impression that in movies, and videogames, they aren't really so interested in getting things historically acurate, but rather visually impressive... or whatever the directors vision tells him would be better than acuracy. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 10:36
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Hi, The cucumber discussion over yet? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 10:57
you're such a nerd. I mean that as a compliment.
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Posted By: Frosted Celt
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 11:04
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The RRHOF ia an absolute joke. I think that any and all bands with musical Integrity who are nominated should send them a package filled with fido extracment with a card reading " induct this " . Or at the very least refused the "honor". Due to the musical nature of a good number of the clowns who have been inducted already it has become a meaningless "honor" if not an outright insut at this point. As stated before .....f**k the RRHOF . ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:15
 and taken as such from one to another ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:17
pffff.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:22
perhaps in movies... it is all about making money man. videogames? Can't speak to that..I stopped playing those many many years ago.. but boardgaming. You never grow out of that once bitten. THose are labors of love made by gamers and history freaks for gamers and history freaks. you damn well better be right and accurate as possible for .there is always someone out there who knows as much or more than you do. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:42
I hate f*****g cucumbers. Which may be why I'm overweight, have diabetes, suffer from gout and have bloody awful digestion. Bad decision. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:49
Isn't that f*****t Robert "Dean of rock critics" Christgau involved as well? Judging by the floods of excrement that come out of his oral orifice, the choices mirror his tastes very accurately. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:50
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hahah.. guess that was true then. btw.. how the hell can one hate something as ... boring.. as a cucumber. Does it even have a taste. It is the chicken of vegetables and so boring they are more exciting as sex toys than as food. (so I've heard of course) ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 16:58
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: December 22 2015 at 17:08
OK, if we're mentioning mistranslations from Asian languages into English, I think this one simply can't be beat: |