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Topic ClosedOzark Soundscape (and my other musical projects)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2012 at 14:57
I actually enjoy a bit of this, especially tracks 1, 2, 10,  and 16. The first track could be somewhat similar to Einsturzende Neubauten's more melodic music, but the sound quality of the percussion and synths make it seem slightly amateurish, but there's no problem with the actual arrangement. If you get better music software, you could re-record it and I think it'd be really cool. The second track is my favorite though--absolutely beautiful.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 17:06
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

The first questions that come to making music (I think) are these: 

1) Do you care about what the audience thinks?
2) Do you really like what you make?
Two very good questions. With my own music I made it for myself and made music that I wanted to listen to. Just looking at my LastFM scrobbled chart will show that I play my own music a lot and I don't care whether other people like it or not - sure it's nice when they do, and I joke about it when they don't - and at the end of the day, that's all we can do.

I don't tend to think much of the opinions of the masses.  I don't want to look down on everyone's musical tastes, but when so many people have been fed mass-produced music for years, it's hard to adjust to listening to something more meaty.  My goal in making music is to glorify God and to create something that will have an effect on people beyond mere entertainment.  What I don't want to do, though, is ignore legitimate criticism, whomever it may come from.  You can't look down on someone's criticism just because you disagree with their tastes; you have to evaluate every criticism on it's own merits.

I do care what the audience thinks, insofar as I want them to like my music.  But if someone doesn't like it, it's not going to change what I do unless they have a legitimate criticism.  For example, "I think the cluttered nature of the piece buries the melody and reduces the expression" rather than, "it's too weird, I don't like it."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 14:47
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Your daughter? Can I hear it? (No kidding here.)

You should find  my three tunes here.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 14:43
^ Your daughter? Can I hear it? (No kidding here.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 14:20
^Yes. You have to enjoy what you create. I enjoyed the results of my attempts and my daughter loves them and plays them on her ipod.Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 14:16
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

The first questions that come to making music (I think) are these: 

1) Do you care about what the audience thinks?
2) Do you really like what you make?
Two very good questions. With my own music I made it for myself and made music that I wanted to listen to. Just looking at my LastFM scrobbled chart will show that I play my own music a lot and I don't care whether other people like it or not - sure it's nice when they do, and I joke about it when they don't - and at the end of the day, that's all we can do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 13:49
The first questions that come to making music (I think) are these: 

1) Do you care about what the audience thinks?
2) Do you really like what you make?

BTW, you are young. Keep playing those instruments that you have in your arsenal. You are not 21, like me (lucky b!@#%rd). You'll spend a buttload of time building your playing skills. There is no shame in learning from and practicing other people's stuff, borrowing ideas. Everyone borrows. 

Of course, you also have to deal with the fact that not everything a person makes sounds great. I used to experiments and only a few of those experiment sound worthwhile to me. 

And please, for the love of god, do not promote yourself. It's never in style. People will think you are self-centered beyond measure. 

As you see, I kind of suck at constructive thinking, but I hope you will take my criticism with grace, as Dean once remarked here, i.e. make something out of it. You'll get the hang of it in time.  

Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

My biggest piece of advice would be to try and write a few conventional songs first. They give you the basis of how a song works and the musical theory. From there you can take these ideas and warp and twist them until you have avant music created from the basis of musical theory, rather than straight from nothing. It will make your songs hold up on so many levels.

Can I just say it is really inspiring that you start so young on trying new things and making your own music? I wish I'd had the same exposure to more outward reaching music at your age. I was lucky enough to be proficient at musical theory and an instrument, and it's taken me 7 years to become a better classical compsoer. God knows how good you're going to be in that time!

Yea this. Nice post.

Though i understand your love for weird music Andrew, i would try making music with it as a influence instead of going full-blown avant and overreaching. 

Good luck with your endeavors.  

Quite a few people started experimenting in their prime: ELO (at least that's what I've read), PF, etc. Some of the stuff worked, some just didn't. Some people, like Faust, TD, and Eno, have it in them - the ability to make interesting experimental music. Some people just don't have it. You wanna be like those guys, stick with it. 

If you lost all hope in the field of experimentation, I would seriously recommend starting writing some songs. If you emphasize melody as the dominant element in music, it will open so many doors for you. It will give you an opportunity to thing about the tackiness of music and/or its emotional depth. Again, there is no shame in sticking with the conventions. Avantgarde, of course, is just a tool for making conventional music somewhat unconventional. Keep in mind: even Brian Eno, a dude who can't play a single darn musical instrument, can/could write some really good songs, too.

If you persist in making music, I know you will succeed. Just figure out what you like and whether you want it in your music. PF experimented, yet not all of their experiments paid off. They also are not very well reputed in the songwriting field (i.e. forging solid melodies). But they freaking made it somehow. They could rock and they could create awesome atmospheres. 


Edited by Dayvenkirq - September 12 2012 at 14:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 13:26
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

My biggest piece of advice would be to try and write a few conventional songs first. They give you the basis of how a song works and the musical theory. From there you can take these ideas and warp and twist them until you have avant music created from the basis of musical theory, rather than straight from nothing. It will make your songs hold up on so many levels.

Can I just say it is really inspiring that you start so young on trying new things and making your own music? I wish I'd had the same exposure to more outward reaching music at your age. I was lucky enough to be proficient at musical theory and an instrument, and it's taken me 7 years to become a better classical compsoer. God knows how good you're going to be in that time!

Yea this. Nice post.

Though i understand your love for weird music Andrew, i would try making music with it as a influence instead of going full-blown avant and overreaching. 

Good luck with your endeavors.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 12:55
LOL yep
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 12:33
but you have a head start on the rest of us Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 11:40
We all can be 12 sometimes
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 11:07
< ="" ="text/" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This is progarchives. Aren't we all about 12?
 
Yeah my comment was 12 year oldish... I do that sometimes...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 03:55
My biggest piece of advice would be to try and write a few conventional songs first. They give you the basis of how a song works and the musical theory. From there you can take these ideas and warp and twist them until you have avant music created from the basis of musical theory, rather than straight from nothing. It will make your songs hold up on so many levels.

Can I just say it is really inspiring that you start so young on trying new things and making your own music? I wish I'd had the same exposure to more outward reaching music at your age. I was lucky enough to be proficient at musical theory and an instrument, and it's taken me 7 years to become a better classical compsoer. God knows how good you're going to be in that time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2012 at 18:04
I listened to a bit of it.  That Quiet Marching is good; I enjoyed the mellotron and the syncopated drum beat.  It could have benefited from a fuller mix, though, and maybe some other instruments to add texture and a little bit of melody (think "Dangerous Curves" by King Crimson).  I'll tell you what I think of the rest when I get a chance to hear it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2012 at 12:01
Listened through "Musi C", so can only comment on that song.

What you said earlier about not having any clear emotions in mind can mean lots of things. It could mean that you don't know what emotions you are putting into the music while there might be a blend of infinite emotions in the actual piece, which you add subcounsciously (spelling?) of course. Anyway, I'm afraid that to me, this song sounds like it's going nowhere. HOWEVER, it is clear that you strive to experiment with music, which I find most promising, especially since I learned that you're 12 years old. Practicing music theory and various (or just one) instrument(s) will allow you to experiment with better precision, which is something your music needs imo. 

Keep on practicing, I remember my "songs" from when I was 12 (7 years ago), I hadn't discovered prog then so it's a bad comparison but still, they weren't better than this. If you actually practice hard (unlike me, I started to practice for real at about 15) you could create some very interesting stuff. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2012 at 05:28
Deleted, sorry


Edited by npjnpj - September 11 2012 at 05:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2012 at 22:10
Again, thanks for all the feedback, guys. I really apriciate it. And glad you liked it, Jim

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2012 at 21:39
I will tell you that I don't enjoy this music. I'm not one to like atonal things very much anyway, and therefore most others probably won't either. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but you must be aware of this when putting music out there. You are directing your music to a specific, niche audience as it is, and 99% of the Internet and everyone will probably be at best indifferent to it. You need to be aware of this, as every musician does. Do what satisfies you, and don't rely on the approval of others.

Keep making music. Learn about music, write music, learn new instruments, listen to different artists always.

I will say that the one thing, above all else, that makes or breaks music is timing. Is is the easiest thing for a listener to pick out if it is wrong, and it is all over the place in your music. Only the most unlistenable of unlistenable avant-rock can find an audience if the timing isn't right. That is what I would advise you to work on at this stage.

Honestly, though, you're miles ahead of where I was at your age.

Also, if you're doing the home recording thing, you have to not only be a musician (hard enough), but you have to know at the very least proper recording techniques. If you want to pay $100 a track, you can send the multitracks to a studio for mixing, or you could learn mixing yourself. So there's another equally hard thing. So already you need to be:

-Musician
-Recording engineer
-Mixing engineer

And let me say you need to try to be as best as possible at all of those. Now I cannot really speak from a high horse since I know my limitations and I am still very much an amateur, even with a degree in the field. It is a process that takes a lot of time, ear training, and experience. But it is what you need to try to aim for if you want to sound professional, and earn other's respect.

I hope you'll take this as constructive criticism.



Edited by stonebeard - September 10 2012 at 21:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2012 at 21:28
Andrew, I listened a bit and enjoyed what I heard for the most part.  Obviously most home recordings are not going to sound like experienced studio albums, and the advice from Rob and others is fair.  But I don't need music to feel completely "professional" to enjoy, I like little basement projects and I like uninhibited creativity, even when not in my favorite musical styles.  I hope you continue to work at it and have no doubt you will improve on all fronts.

So while I won't play this often I did enjoy listening and may listen again....and I like your cover image too.  Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2012 at 19:54
Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Andrew, I want to ask you this: What emotions did you intend for the listener to have while hearing your material?


Well, I didn't really have emotion(s) in mind. Each song was made under a different emotion, so maybe a few. But I honestly didn't think about it prevoking an emotion.

 
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Also, what reaction did you expect this audience (i.e., members of PA) to have when hearing your material?


Well, the best I hoped for is that people would recognise some promise. That's what I really want. because as I get better at playing, I'll be able to expand on that promise and make some genuinely good stuff.


The problem with the first statement is that you consciously chose not to convey something.  As much as you adore John Cage (and as much as I loathe him), he consciously tried to convey some kind of emotion.  When music is always off the beat, always out of tune, always discordant, there is no contrast, and that makes the music bland.

Your second statement is what is really telling.  What you've just told me is that this project you have on bandcamp is not "genuinely good stuff."  I listened to several of your tracks.  It sounds like you know the basics of a drum machine and that you can use a pick.  That's unfortunate credentials for producing something.

I'm not knocking you- this means you are two years ahead of me (I could neither use a drum machine nor a pick at 12).

However, making "genuinely good stuff" involves, in my opinion, this:

1) Becoming proficient at an instrument.
2) Learning basic music theory.
3) Recognizing a good idea when it comes AND
4) Rejecting the ten bad ones that always do.

Don't be 12 and put your business out there on the Internet expecting love.  Otherwise, you get this:



Someone made that (I assume) looking for honest criticism but no mean comments.  Sorry, but on the Internet, you get lots of ridicule.  If people hate what you do, they will say so.  And they won't be sorry.

If you think you have promise, then study an instrument, practice every day, and don't give in to the notion that everything you do is gold.  Hear me: Most of what you will do is awful.  Don't publish it please.

Instead, figure out what the diamond is among the dust.  Then develop it until it is exactly what you want.  If you like the idea but cannot perfect it, then leave it until it matures in your mind.  Don't give it to us until it does.

So Andrew, get out there and rock and ROLL THE BONES.

Get busy.
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