And by the way, The Jester is another guy on Progarchives (he came after me I didn't know I could seperate words) my username is realy The_Jester.

There is no average amount of time to write, rehearse and produce a song, it all varies. 

I mean, give yourself 6 years of working very very hard and you will hopefully be able to catch up to your ambition.

But hey, you gotta start somewhere.  You're lucky you've gotten into music at a young, impressionable age.

 

He's right, by getting frustrated and by insulting me, you're only getting my point right. I don't say it is, I agree I was over-reacting. In fact, I could've presented it in an other way. But the sure thing is: I was honest and I guess it's better than false praise or trying to be nice. I was too harsh I agree but even from harsh criticism we can try to learn something. I've been through loads of harsh criticism but instead of closing my eyes, I improved myself, I understood the others point, I understood why John Cage was only pretentious as opposite to his master, Schoenberg who was a genius. I understood the work of great composers like Bach, Debussy or Beethoven.

 

Anyway, like I said, do as you wish.

 

Really really sorry, I'm intensely ashamed of what I did.

...painted by Picasso when he was 12 - he can paint, but there is still a juevenile quality to the composition and you don't get the sense that the girl is actually sat on the chair, or that the chair itself has any dimension or substance - we can see the back, but there is no indication that the rest of it even exists from the girl's posture or positioning.

 

Four years later, we get this:

Eventhough we cannot see the chair the doctor is sitting on very clearly we know it is there, the painting conveys the substance and dimension of the chair by the composition of the painting and the positioning of the doctor in relation to the chair.

 

...and from that (if you follow his painting chronologically) is a progression of applying the rules and breaking them that leads to cubism, neoclassicalism and surrealism in his work:

 

Woman in an Armchair - painted when he was 29 - heavily abstracted and superficially nothing like the previous two paintings, except that it is a similar subject to the first and shows all the compositional merits that the second possess. It is abstract but there is nothing random or improvised about it, it is avant garde but it is still following the rules of composition in the use of light and shade, balance, focal points and all those other techniques that depict the substance and dimension of the chair without showing it realistically.

 

For me this is what separates good avant garde music from random notes - the use composition and the use of music theory "rules", breaking those rules knowingly and resolving them effectively (or at least satisfactorily)

 

Pablo Picasso was never called an......

I'm afraid it shows. It sounds like someone just improvising with whatever comes to them. I can hear some great ideas in there and some real promise but it just seems like a record of extended ideas, both good and bad, at the moment.

All in all though, not a bad place to start.

Oh god yes, that quote is far deeper than the textual meaning, but I was just making a point. Picasso was an undisputed genius of his craft and a master at the pure philosophy of artwork. 

On avant-garde music, I completely agree. There's a big difference between "avant" music that is just to be avant (perhaps Metallica's Lulu), and then "avant" music that goes against the stream of music for a purpose (such as Henry Cow, Univers Zero, etc)

Keep making music. Learn about music, write music, learn new instruments, listen to different artists always.

I will say that the one thing, above all else, that makes or breaks music is timing. Is is the easiest thing for a listener to pick out if it is wrong, and it is all over the place in your music. Only the most unlistenable of unlistenable avant-rock can find an audience if the timing isn't right. That is what I would advise you to work on at this stage.

Honestly, though, you're miles ahead of where I was at your age.

What you said earlier about not having any clear emotions in mind can mean lots of things. It could mean that you don't know what emotions you are putting into the music while there might be a blend of infinite emotions in the actual piece, which you add subcounsciously (spelling?) of course. Anyway, I'm afraid that to me, this song sounds like it's going nowhere. HOWEVER, it is clear that you strive to experiment with music, which I find most promising, especially since I learned that you're 12 years old. Practicing music theory and various (or just one) instrument(s) will allow you to experiment with better precision, which is something your music needs imo. 

Keep on practicing, I remember my "songs" from when I was 12 (7 years ago), I hadn't discovered prog then so it's a bad comparison but still, they weren't better than this. If you actually practice hard (unlike me, I started to practice for real at about 15) you could create some very interesting stuff. 

Can I just say it is really inspiring that you start so young on trying new things and making your own music? I wish I'd had the same exposure to more outward reaching music at your age. I was lucky enough to be proficient at musical theory and an instrument, and it's taken me 7 years to become a better classical compsoer. God knows how good you're going to be in that time!

 

Yeah my comment was 12 year oldish... I do that sometimes...

Yea this. Nice post.

Though i understand your love for weird music Andrew, i would try making music with it as a influence instead of going full-blown avant and overreaching. 

Good luck with your endeavors.  

1) Do you care about what the audience thinks?

2) Do you really like what you make?

BTW, you are young. Keep playing those instruments that you have in your arsenal. You are not 21, like me (lucky b!@#%rd). You'll spend a buttload of time building your playing skills. There is no shame in learning from and practicing other people's stuff, borrowing ideas. Everyone borrows. 

Of course, you also have to deal with the fact that not everything a person makes sounds great. I used to experiments and only a few of those experiment sound worthwhile to me. 

And please, for the love of god, do not promote yourself. It's never in style. People will think you are self-centered beyond measure. 

As you see, I kind of suck at constructive thinking, but I hope you will take my criticism with grace, as Dean once remarked here, i.e. make something out of it. You'll get the hang of it in time.  

Quite a few people started experimenting in their prime: ELO (at least that's what I've read), PF, etc. Some of the stuff worked, some just didn't. Some people, like Faust, TD, and Eno, have it in them - the ability to make interesting experimental music. Some people just don't have it. You wanna be like those guys, stick with it. 

If you lost all hope in the field of experimentation, I would seriously recommend starting writing some songs. If you emphasize melody as the dominant element in music, it will open so many doors for you. It will give you an opportunity to thing about the tackiness of music and/or its emotional depth. Again, there is no shame in sticking with the conventions. Avantgarde, of course, is just a tool for making conventional music somewhat unconventional. Keep in mind: even Brian Eno, a dude who can't play a single darn musical instrument, can/could write some really good songs, too.

If you persist in making music, I know you will succeed. Just figure out what you like and whether you want it in your music. PF experimented, yet not all of their experiments paid off. They also are not very well reputed in the songwriting field (i.e. forging solid melodies). But they freaking made it somehow. They could rock and they could create awesome atmospheres. 

Two very good questions. With my own music I made it for myself and made music that I wanted to listen to. Just looking at my http://www.last.fm/user/darqdean/charts" rel="nofollow - LastFM scrobbled chart will show that I play my own music a lot and I don't care whether other people like it or not - sure it's nice when they do, and I joke about it when they don't - and at the end of the day, that's all we can do.

You should find  my three tunes here.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=81652" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=81652

Keep it up 

And we shall look forward to it 

Cool, I'll listen to it in a minute.