Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Religious lyrics ?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedReligious lyrics ?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 16>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
kiwi View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 05 2008
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 127 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 20:33
Criticism is so cheap and easy. A lot of rock music, especially prog, have lyrics that critique society or religion or whatever. Sometimes this hits the mark and is beautifully crafted, e.g Tull's "My God" and "Thick as a Brick", but sometimes its just cheezy and indulgent. I would give some examples here, but don't want to criticise those who have much more talent than I.

Criticism and deconstruction is useful, but if it is the only tool a lyricist uses in becomes bleak, visionless and repetitive.  

We, verily, have made music as a ladder for your souls, a means whereby they may be lifted up unto the realm on high.. (Baha'u'llah)


music
Back to Top
KingCrimson250 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 18:41
Best post? I'm a bit baffled as to how someone could ever say that religion hasn't served the artists of mankind. Maybe he's getting at something different, but that is completely absurd. If you were to compile a list of the greatest, or at least most well-known, works of art throughout history, I guarantee you that the vast majority of them would be religious in nature. We could be talking about the Parthenon, Michaelangelo's painting of the cathedral ceiling, J.S. Bach ('nuff said)... and that's only dealing with European culture! To say that religion hasn't served the artists of mankind is both baffling and flat-out wrong.

As for religion serving the knowledge of mankind, that's an entirely different debate that is rather off-topic.


Edited by KingCrimson250 - May 31 2009 at 18:42
Back to Top
Zargus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 18:05
Originally posted by kingfriso kingfriso wrote:

Religion hasn´t really served the artists and knowlegde of mankind. I therefore wander why one would love to sing about it. I myself see inspiration to write great songs as a devine gift, but no reason there to refer to age old beliefs called monotheistic religions that just were confenient at the time. We now all have acces to knowlegde and this will hopefully lead to wisdom and ethics. Now, that´s something to sing about! Critisize your society for it´s flaws!

And luckely, a lot of artist do just that.

Best post in the whole topic! Clap
Back to Top
Failcore View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 14:49
Yeah civil law is ridiculous in general. It's really guilty til you go to hell and back to prove your innocence. If I just randomly accuse some one of breaking a civil law, it automatically puts the burden of proof on them. That's why frivolous lawsuits abound. Sue the right entity/person and they'll just settle out of court rather than go thru the trouble to prove innocence. It's how certain corporations make a living.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 13:37
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Anyway Startibast, if you:
 
1.- Quote a parragraph
2.- Copy the link to the legal source of the lyrics
3.- Mention the artist
 
You most probably will  not have any problem.
 
But in laws, nothing is 100% accurate, being that a lot of decisions are left o the discression of the courts and the plaintiff.
 
You can check http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html The canadian Copyright Act, with specioal attention to article 29, section FAIR DEALING, but you will see that it's still ambiguous enough to admit several interpretations.
 
Iván
 
 

As coming from our resident legal eagle, I appreciate that.  Of course you did have to qualify that with "most probably". LOL


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 01 2009 at 09:33
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 13:30
Anyway Startibast, if you:
 
1.- Quote a parragraph
2.- Copy the link to the legal source of the lyrics
3.- Mention the artist
 
You most probably will  not have any problem.
 
But in laws, nothing is 100% accurate, being that a lot of decisions are left to the discression of the courts and the plaintiff.
 
You can check http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html The Canadian Copyright Act, with special attention to article 29, section FAIR DEALING, but you will see that it's still ambiguous enough to admit several interpretations.
 
Iván
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 31 2009 at 13:47
            
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 13:21
Eh, sometimes an excerpt of lyrics say it all without any embellishment.  What can you do but paraphrase?

I am getting some kind of sick masochistic enjoyment of fire ant's attack. Tongue


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 01 2009 at 09:33
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 13:05
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Now, see, that's not fair use.  You aren't discussing the excerpt or reviewing it or parodying it or anything along those lines.

Your just posting it because you think it's neat and others might think it's neat and to thumb your nose at a law you don't like.
 
Good point, but there's more, FAIR DEAL is an exception, this means you can present it ONLY in a trial already started, the judge may or may not accept it, and even if he does, you have to pay legal fees since you consult a lawyer, and even more if he has to respond a subpoena, the lawyers in USA or Canada don't work for free.
 
Iván
            
Back to Top
ghost_of_morphy View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 12:58

Now, see, that's not fair use.  You aren't discussing the excerpt or reviewing it or parodying it or anything along those lines.

Your just posting it because you think it's neat and others might think it's neat and to thumb your nose at a law you don't like.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:11
Why do I get the feeling I've stepped on fire ant mound?


"Ice is moving and world's begun to freeze
see the sunlight stopped and deadened by the breeze
Minds are empty bodies move insensitive
some believe that when they die they really live"

Genesis from Tresspass one paragraph excerpt.


Edited by Slartibartfast - May 31 2009 at 13:22
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:09
Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

Well, you know, the lyrics are in the booklet that comes with the album, so if you post them online, then I can read the lyrics without owning the album, and who knows what kinds of problems that could lead to.
 
The lyrics are protected by the copyight sign ©, so you can't publish them without authorization of the owner as simple as that, they own it they can do whatever they want, we don't own them, we cant.

Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

I hear that people freely copying lyrics in the newspapers was a major contributor to Hitler's rise to power. These copyright laws may seem absurd, but at least they've kept the US dictator-free.
 
We don't have to agree with the law, we only have to accept it.
 
But just think in something, if you write a story and you publish it, you wouldn't like it to be posted for free in a web page, the law can't discrimitate between written texts purpose, if it's in a book to be sold or in a lyric (also to be sold as integral part of a recording), is equally protected.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 31 2009 at 13:00
            
Back to Top
StyLaZyn View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2009 at 08:03
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Ok. For the last time. We have been ordered to remove lyrics posted on the forum in the past, so PLEASE restrict lyric-quoting to a few lines. Maybe these people should pick on the millions of lyric sites on the internet, but...

You know, I shouldn't have to go to all this trouble to spell it out.


That has got to tick you off. This site doesn't thrive on lyrics per se counter to what the other websites do. This site, like in this thread, use lyrics to make a point, as reference.
Back to Top
KingCrimson250 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 23:55
Well, you know, the lyrics are in the booklet that comes with the album, so if you post them online, then I can read the lyrics without owning the album, and who knows what kinds of problems that could lead to.

I hear that people freely copying lyrics in the newspapers was a major contributor to Hitler's rise to power. These copyright laws may seem absurd, but at least they've kept the US dictator-free.
Back to Top
Negoba View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 21:42
I never knew lyrics were copyrighted to the point that they couldn't be used in a not-for-profit online discussion.
 
Once again, the capitalists are friggin' idiots. You can't own thoughts you farging bastages, no matter how hard you try.
 
Jeez. I get that if I'm profiting using your work, you should get a cut. But to restrict free discussion is lunacy.
 
 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 21:24
Sincere apologies, I was trying to be a little funny and fell flat on my ass.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Back to Top
Tony R View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 21:17
Who knows? A few sentences might be considered fair use, I've no idea really. All I know is that when we get a legal notice that we have to comply with, we try our best to make sure we aren't put in that position again.

Why members insist on making these wild, and frankly bizarre, claims and accusations against Admin is beyond me.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 21:08
Consider this birdbrain well chastised.  Embarrassed But are we talking about a one paragraph limit?

Edited by Slartibartfast - May 30 2009 at 21:24
Back to Top
Tony R View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 21:02
That's exactly it Ivan.
Back to Top
Tony R View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 21:01
Ok. For the last time. We have been ordered to remove lyrics posted on the forum in the past, so PLEASE restrict lyric-quoting to a few lines. Maybe these people should pick on the millions of lyric sites on the internet, but...

You know, I shouldn't have to go to all this trouble to spell it out.

Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 21:00
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

This site is well policed mostly but sometimes someone with admin authority goes a bit too far. 
 
He doesn't go to far, there's a post in the Sites Rules and Guidelines called Copyrighted Material a Warning:
 
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

We have recently been obliged to remove a popular and otherwise compliant thread due to it being riddled with the quoting of copyrighted material.
 
We were approached by one of the copyright owners who made it clear in unambiguous terms that legal action would be taken if the quotes were not removed immediately.
 
Members are reminded that they should not include copyrighted material in their forum posts or reviews without the express permission of the owner. This includes lyrics, essays, and all text appearing on other websites, in books, magazines etc. It is usually best to use links to other websites rather than reprint text from them.
 
Members are reminded that they are personally responsible for what they say in their posts and reviews, and as such, may find themselves drawn into any subsequent action which is taken by copyright owners.
 
In other words, WE HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
This are the site's rules, the guy who puts his money for our enjoyment, doesn't want to take risks, and he's entitled to.
 
The administrators have warned us.....What's the problem obeying the rules????????
 
If somebody wants to quote a whole book, better put his own money, open his own site and nobody here will say a word, but as long as this is M@X site, we have to accept M@X and the Administrators rules.
 
Iván
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 30 2009 at 21:04
            
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 16>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.