Getting estranged from prog

I understand (at least I think I do) what you are trying to say, Friede. For a good part of 2008, I almost gave up listening to prog music. I had become disinterested in all eras including the classic 70's. However, my interest was revived when I took a plunge and started to listen to "Gentle Giant" and Italian maestros, "Le Orme" and "PFM". Having not explored these areas of Prog in the past - I found I was intrigued and at the same time perturbed, that I had not discovered them earlier. Never mind - I now love the intricacies of "Gentle Giant" and the often beautiful and bombastic nuances of Italian Prog. Just when I thought there was nothing new to like or enjoy about Prog, I am rediscovering some of the older heroes and have now  started listening to others such as "Nektar".

Hmm...interesting thread thanks.

I suppose its comes in cycles. There was a slight time in the past where music in general wasn't really on my radar...stop listening to it as much as I had...seemingly less stuff on my want list...but then it just seemed to turn around as quickly as it had gone. Don't know why...didn't really discover anything that made me burst with joy, nor did I rediscover the older stuff that I've been ignoring.

Lately I've been getting more into stuff like psychedelic, indie, post-punk, electronic, classical, jazz, ambient, etc.  I still love some prog, like VdGG, Yes, Genesis, PF, etc. and definitely the kraut, experimental, and weird stuff, but some of it I don't really care for as much anymore.  I don't mind really, I think as a whole I've been getting into much more music than growing out of, and I even appreciate metal and "neo" prog on occasion, but pretty rarely honestly.

Progs still my favorite genre, and I don't think that will change for a while.  I'd like to get into more stuff though, mostly non-prog but still a lot of prog.  My favorite bands are still mostly prog, although I think it's great having diverse taste (prog is a diverse genre, but there is a lot more out there).


Edited by Mikerinos - January 06 2009 at 23:11

BaldFriede wrote: De gustibus non est disputandum. You say you recognize all the "little quirks" in The Red Masque; I could say the same about Mastodon. They are a bit too tonal for my taste, and apart from playing fast and loud with lots of meter changes I don't see much to hold my interest. But I will give them that: At least they use distortion, which is something I miss in most metal bands. On the other hand they use double bass-drumming, which definitely is on my no-no list.; being a drummer myself I consider it to be a cheap gimmick. But as I said: De gustibus non est disputandum.

I love you! I mean your opinion.  I absolutely agree! I'm 20 and don't like the loudness and metallization that many modern prog bands use. The "Machine-alike" playing on drums, seem to go again in many modern prog bands. The double bass drum often ruins the melody (and all other good stuff) and makes bands very familiar imo. Often I don't feel anything when I hear their music. It sounds like they are a machine or something (And it's very, very often the drums that ruins it for me). Also the 70 didn't have the same loudness, today it seem that the higher volume the better music *sigh*. Loudness and metallization is very popular nowadays and it seems to me that we have learned very little from the 70's music!

I'm a drummer too, btw .  Sorry for bad english, I'm not so good at it.

I can appreciate your feelings here. But I would say that once you have listened to a certain amount of prog albums and bands, that you're going to hit a 'wall" where you find that most acts don't offer anything more than what you're already heard done before, or done better. My experience has been that it happens no matter the genre, in my case the hard rock & Heavy Metal scen.

And recently having stumbled upon some 70s prog obscurities like Orion, Odyssee, and Rainbow Theater, I've come to believe that even a favourite prog sub-genre of mine - Symphonic, has its' share of bad & mediocre albums. The first two are decent, but nothing that will excite the Symphonic fan.
I even went back and listened to groups like Pentacle & Memoriance and found them to be average. But they are now in my collection, and so every now & then, they'll get their turn.

So really, if you're at that point, what I do now is go back and play a lot of the albums that I haven't given that many listens so far (VDGG's Pawn Hearts is still ebing given a chance to grow on me, while World Record already has).
And as for the production, I would say that you are among the many who miss the analog recordings, even when they weren't as pristine, clear or whatever term is used when praising modern music production techniques. We've seen that with the Genesis remaster box sets, where they've actually re-mixed the albums. So you end up with a "better" sound, but not the one that you necessarily fell in love with when you first heard the LP or CD.

This goes for BaldFriede. You might want to try Grayceon, I think they sound very raw, in a early ´70 way... probably cause they couldn´t affort something better jejeje But it does have another feel to it, which is more... organic maybe, as you say. You might like them.

As for me, I LOOOOOOOOVEEE modern production (if done right). I think certain artist just get so much more out of their music because of it. Bands like Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Ulver just to name a few... I really can´t relate to you cause I don´t have that problem. But I do know that you don´t like a lot of genres, like metal (and yes, you can argue how High Tides was metal) and others. You tend to be more oriented toward Kraut, Psychodelia and more atonal music. Because of this you might see as there are no more interesting bands for you cause... well, much of that music (for some reason...) is not being done today. Which is also good I think, youhave to move forward, cause if not you end up being Neo (snap!) jejeje

I don't see music in terms of 'prog' or 'not prog', but more in terms of what intrigues and interests me. That said, is site has broadened my horizons a lot, and helped me explore genres I was completely unfamiliar with in the past. There is such a huge variety of styles covered by the umbrella of 'prog' that I would find it almost impossible to actually tire of it. Even though I am a fan of Seventies prog (like most people of my generation), I am also more than willing to get acquainted with new bands without making too many comparisons.

BaldFriede wrote: I don't know why, but I am getting more and more estranged from prog. It still has a place in my heart, but the development the music is taking in this genre makes me shy away from it. Or perhaps it is my own development, who knows? .In any case, newer  artists in prog seem to have different opinions about what prog actually is than I. The few exceptions can be counted on the fingers of one hand. There are some old heroes who keep carrying the flag, but some of them have left the path of what is acceptable for me. And they are of course not getting any younger, which means there number becomes fewer with each year. Artists like The Red Masque, who in my opinion are by far the best of what cropped up in the last ten years, are few. (They get, by the way, far too little attention in here, in my honest opinion. The archives should hail them like some of the big bands of the 70s, and I mean it). I find myself listening to classical music and jazz mostly these days. That is, I still listen to prog, but I am really missing new artists that keep the ball rolling. People have suggested some new artists to me, but they didn't really excite me. As I said, it may be just me (though Jean says she feels quite similar). There just is no real daring anymore, except from some of the old heroes. Modern production adds to my discomfort with prog; it no longer sounds organic, it sounds artificial. Every single instrument is so clearly seperated from the other - that's not the way it sounds when you hear music being played live. Here the instruments blend into each other, making the whole thing sound organic. This is probably one of the reasons why I prefer live recordings to studio ones (especially modern studio recordings). Is it just me, or is anyone else feeling like this?

I can relate to this to some degree, but I have some thoughts to put it in perspective:

Think of how estranged prog fans felt in the 80's - with Yes putting out Drama with Trevor Horn, Genesis' very commercial sound, ELP going bankrupt and putting out Love Beach. Jethro Tull winning "Best Heavy Metal Album". It was a sad time. And the production values back then were even worse - all of the Moogs were replaced by tinkly-sounding DX7's, Mellotrons replaced by cheap samplers, electronic drums coming into the picture, etc.

Now, there is so MUCH prog, and so many different strains of it available, thanks to the internet and mp3 revolution....so the genre is actually big enough now where we have so many sub-genres of prog that are based in different creative approaches. So, in the bad sense, it is a divided community - the prog fans who do not like avant garde probably dislike it more than your average person, and the avant-garde fans dislike retro more than your average non-prog fan. The good side of this is, for whatver brand of prog you identify with, there is probably more good music put out each year than you could possibly ever have time to listen to...it just takes more searching, especially since most of these releases are not from labels that do a lot of promotion - they are usually from labels with no budget for promotion, or released by the bands themselves.



Edited by jplanet - January 06 2009 at 14:54

I guess I'm too fickle to get entrenched into one genre to become inured by it, so cannot imagine ever becoming fed-up with the way any particular quarter of Prog is going at any moment in time - but even then I can always pull out a CD from the rack that is diametrically opposite to whatever I've temporarily lost interest in, either from the past or from the present day... and if that fails, even something I've recorded myself (if only to remind myself how good the professionals are ).