Theism v. Atheism in Prog

keiser willhelm wrote: Its not impossible to make good, religious music but so far no one has. Thats because too many people see the point of religious music to be NOT the music itself but the message, the lyrics. thats why the lyrics so often get in the way. They come before the music which only acts as a context for the message. bleh.

Well said. I totally agree, as far as prog is concerned. I can't think of any prog that's determinedly atheist, apart from the well-known AQUALUNG. Something like VDGG, perhaps? As for religious ecstasy, I guess you there's plenty in "Nous sommes du soleil" and even RELAYER, but many people are going to find Jonnie A's lyrics laughable... Most of the greatest religious music (which still thrills me, even though I lost my faith long ago) uses the same handful of Latin texts, which seemed to be inexhaustible, at least from the Middle Ages until the 19th century. A pity (but totally understandable, of course) that no decent prog bands have ever tried using those...

I listen to Christian, athiest/anti-religious, and satanic music... never am I really thinking "wow I would rather if they were ___", music is a form of expression and as long as they're expressing something that fits the music I'm indifferent to exactly what it is.. I even listen to some NSBM (national socialist black metal) which is known for racism, but I'm not one bit a racist, I might even listen to a bit of hip hop afterwards haha

Drumolator wrote: keiser willhelm wrote: As a christian prog listener, and a free-thinker (somehow these terms are now mutually exclusive? **laughs**) i ALSO find almost all christian music to be boring, bland, and as ^ he points out, saccharine.  Its not impossible to make good, religious music but so far no one has. Thats because too many people see the point of religious music to be NOT the music itself but the message, the lyrics. thats why the lyrics so often get in the way. They come before the music which only acts as a context for the message. bleh.   For some good Christian prog try Proto Kaw (Kerry Livgren's band), Neal Morse, and Glass Hammer (the last two especially).   The lyrics matter to me, and just like anyone else, if I find something that bugs me about the lyrics, I will not listen again.  To each his/her own!  Peace.

I have sampled a little Neal Morse and some Glass Hammer a long time ago. I wasn't too into it (not really big on Neo in general) Ive been planning on giving it another try.
Lyrics matter to me, and i really appreciate well thought out, interesting lyrics. Toby driver, Maynard Keenan, and whoever writes lyrics for the Pax Cecilia are some favorites of mine.
but at the same time, the lyrics have to add or at least not detract from the music itself in terms of how they sound. (why i like jon anderson and dont just "put up" with him)

I hope this thread doesn't turn in a "Is God ruining prog" part 2.

Deism* not Theism

It seems like prog is way more spiritual than most other types of music. Lyrics about a greater power or huge change are much more common than nihilistic or atheistic lyrics, at least I've noticed.

But prog is about the music. Christian rock bands may as well just stop playing and start writing poetry and essays, because for the most part it's just music as a vehicle to talk about Jesus. But a band like Kansas (ignoring the 80s) with religious overtones in their music kept the music important, like their 2002 album, and as a result stayed fresh.

cacho wrote: [QUOTE=jwxlite] I do not care, as long as it is good music thedn I am fine with either.

Exactly... I do not care what Sabbath lyrics say neither Black Widow's, if the music makes me have some fun, that's more than just fine to me.
QUOTE] yep, same here.  I don't care either way, and I'm consistent with that...if you want to preach in the music, preach, but have some good guitar riffs behind it and I won't complain.  I hear people compain about religion in music, but they have no problem when a band preaches the other way around.  Well that's all too darn complicated for me, so I just accept it as long as I don't feel offended; basically I don't care what a musicians' opinion is as long as they respect mine and my neighbors

As a christian prog listener, and a free-thinker (somehow these terms are now mutually exclusive? **laughs**) i ALSO find almost all christian music to be boring, bland, and as ^ he points out, saccharine.
 Its not impossible to make good, religious music but so far no one has. Thats because too many people see the point of religious music to be NOT the music itself but the message, the lyrics. thats why the lyrics so often get in the way. They come before the music which only acts as a context for the message. bleh.

since I think good meaningful lyrics are important (for music that has lyrics), and messages and themes music conveys adds to the depth and importance of music, I think some of the best prog can

Edited by Dr. Prog - May 06 2008 at 18:06

I'll listen to any band so long as my "inner detector" doesn't tell me I'm being proselytized to.  If I sense the band is in business to "spread the word" first and foremost, I'm gone.  There's a big difference between someone writing the occasional track about personal spiritual experience, and having a "mission" to convert others to their view.  The former is art, the latter is propaganda.  

So far so good.

Unfortunately I feel it necessary to intervene with a short message. I dont intend this as a sleight against the people who have posted so far.


To potential contributors to this thread:

any posts discussing the merits/demerits of atheism/theism will be deleted.



Edited by Tony R - May 06 2008 at 17:20