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colorofmoney91 View Drop Down
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Points: 22774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:04
Oh, right. I had just woken and my ability to understand things was fuzzy.


Well, debates are still cool.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 11:55
I had no intention of debating the genre def, and still don't - it's fine as it is. Just pointing out the difference between what the dance/trance crowd call Progressive Electronic and what we call Progressive Electronic - two completely seperate and unrelated genres - to a 14 yo who was confused by a YouTube video. That's all.

Edited by Dean - June 30 2012 at 11:55
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Points: 22774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 11:19
It's just awful, Dean. Stern Smile



But I don't mind people debating the subgenre's definition on this site, and I actually encourage it. I think progressive electronic (on this site) is something that a lot of our members don't understand, and a lot of members think other members don't understand (ahemErmm). I think this would be a good place to discuss the merits of calling various modern artists "progressive electronic" like Aphex Twin and F**k Buttons, though it's very clear that they don't deserve a spot on this site.

I see no real progressive merits in Deadmau5 thought.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 09:42
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

Terrible how many treds turn in debates about def.
The title says electronic progressive (rock) appreciation
To me seems pretty clear that it's about appreciation of artists already in this sub-genre, and nothing else.


Terrible?
 
 
Gee thanks. Ouch
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tamijo View Drop Down
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 09:27
Terrible how many treds turn in debates about def.
The title says electronic progressive (rock) appreciation
To me seems pretty clear that it's about appreciation of artists already in this sub-genre, and nothing else.
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:45
OK, but as excellent as Phillipe's definition is, like any other fallible critter, he ain't future proof and Timewind is a just a German hippy name-dropping Wagner/Raga as an aide to credibility.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:35
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Linearity? I'm lost, ain't this available to to the Osmonds re Crazy Horses and the Buchla synth?
sure - and the Beach Boys re Good Vibrations and the soundtrack to the Forbidden Planet, but none of those resulted in Tone Float or The Madcap's Flaming Duty - the linearity that connects (however tenuously or indirectly) the music considered to be PE is not the technology that enables it, since the technology can be used to create any form of music you care to name... is Hot Butter's Pop Corn electronic music created using the technology? Yes it is(I'll not link it here, I've committed enough musical vandalism on the site this week), but it is not PE nor is it connected by any linear path back to the route of PE or any later development of it.
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:18
Linearity? I'm lost, ain't this available to to the Osmonds re Crazy Horses and the Buchla synth?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:10
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

IDM, what about 'brain dead' dance music that you can sing along to in the bath innit? All joking aside, the side stepping and posturing re Electronic Prog c/f Electronic Prog that posits the possibility of a sentient audience is frankly pitiful to behold. Yes, the definition provided by Philipe is impressive and posits that the extant technologies available beget the innovation. One of the biggest obstacles to innovation is innovation itself. I also like to pretend that the hippy Kosmiche w**k is now firmly relegated to the margins of  the popular consciousness. (sales figures might bear this out I dunno)
Linearity and continuity are the key elements here I suspect - Progressive Electronic Rock was born from hippy Pscydelic Rock on a parallel path that saw ELP and Symphonic Prog take one route while Electronic Prog (and Kosmiche Musik) branched off into a different direction. Since then there has been some convergence and crossover along the way as one would expect. Whether that music I would regard as cerebal is doubtful, I'm not able to give Timewind's an IQ test. Technology is a tool and cannot ceate innovation without creative input.
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 07:39
IDM, what about 'brain dead' dance music that you can sing along to in the bath innit? All joking aside, the side stepping and posturing re Electronic Prog c/f Electronic Prog that posits the possibility of a sentient audience is frankly pitiful to behold. Yes, the definition provided by Philipe is impressive and posits that the extant technologies available beget the innovation. One of the biggest obstacles to innovation is innovation itself. I also like to pretend that the hippy Kosmiche w**k is now firmly relegated to the margins of  the popular consciousness. (sales figures might bear this out I dunno)
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 07:16
Originally posted by Ancient Tree Ancient Tree wrote:

wait wait electonic prog is this 


im confused 


An easy confusion to make.
 
What we are talking about here is Progressive Electronic Rock, not Progressive House, or Progressive Electronic Trance. Electronic Dance Music (EDM) and it's close relative (subgenre) Intelligent Dance Music (IDM) are not connected to Progressive Rock at all (although there is inevitably some influence of Electronic Prog in some EDM and IDM, and latterly the other way around  - some of the guys that make EDM and IDM music are influenced by Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, and even old-school Prog like Pink Floyd and Vangelis' 70s Prog band Aphrodite's Child).
 
To understand the distinction better you need to read Philippe's excellent definition/history of what we call Progressive Electronic (Rock), from that you may then appreciate why he/we are dismissive of many of the IDM-type suggestions that we get.
 
At the other end of the spectrum (i.e electronic music that is not associated with Dance or Prog Rock) is electro-accoustic music - this often lacks the "rock" element and is more akin to classical music and avant garde (as opposed to Avant Prog) - that uses sound manipulation rather than sound synthesis to create music - some of that does "crossover" into Progressive Electronic (Rock), but not much.
 
 
It is perhaps easier to define Electronic Progressive (Rock) by what it isn't rather than by what it is because there is an awful lot of music that is created using synthesisers and music synthesis that is not Progressive Electronic (Rock) - Wendy Carlos, Tomita and Kitarō are obvious examples, (which tend to push Vangelis and JM Jarre towards Prog Related rather than Prog Electronic (Rock) by association... discuss) - Aphex Twin and Autechre and various Warp artists also fall outside this category, along with a whole raft of "New Age" music that creates symphoinic and/or ambient music by electronic means and a hellofalot of synth-pop and post-punk electronic noise.
 
But that's not to say that people who like Tangerine Dream and Moebius don't (or won't) like Vangelis, Aphex twin or Caberet Voltaire.
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 05:47
For a variety of different reasons, Progressive Electronic probably represents the future of PA (if such an entity has a future in it's present incarnation)
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Points: 7251 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 05:18
Can we call this electronic prog ? Matmos : Snails and Lasers for Patricia Highsmith  (2006)
 
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Points: 109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 04:31
wait wait electonic prog is this 


im confused 




Edited by Ancient Tree - June 30 2012 at 04:32
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tamijo View Drop Down
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 03:03
Im not familiar with the "stars" of the genre Schulze or Tangerina Dream, but I do know their best works.
On the other hand im totaly in love with Eno !
 
Anyway, my first recomandation is this, an often overseen gem in this genre:
 
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 03:02
^ Ha! I too started to listen to that Heldon track and turned it off after a minute or so.  Seemed a bit out opf place here, not that I would like to put limits on this thread as Electro is a wide ranging field. 
 
Take Cluster and Harmonia for example I like the experimental poppier feel of this:
 
 
Help me I'm falling!
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Points: 29452 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 02:44
I must admit I don't like my electronic music to be to ''heavy''. Played a bit of Heldon and had to stop it (sorry).
Recently I've just dowloaded several Neuronium albums and Synapsia is the album I most like of the bunch. I can't find any links for it though sadly but would recomment this to anyone who likes Tangerine Dream's Logos album. Its very slow paced and lush synth music. There is a meditative quality about it.
I also aquired Heritage which is regarded as something of a classic. Very smooth synth music and nice rythmns
 
 also this from one of their recent albums Mystykatea
 
 
moving away from Neuronium I always remember this with fondness. Was big hit in the UK at the same time JM Jarre released his magnificient opus Oxygene
 
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Points: 12859 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 02:42
I've heard Computer World, once on Spotify. I really liked the track Computer Love. CW will probably be the next Kraftwerk album I'll get, unless I find one of those Alan mentioned cheaper somewhere. 
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Points: 69 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2012 at 00:40
Originally posted by colorofmoney91 colorofmoney91 wrote:

Originally posted by The Bearded Bard The Bearded Bard wrote:

Kraftwerk's Trans-Europe Express and The Man-Machine is the only Progressive Electronic albums I've got. I like both though. Deserves a mention, I think. 


Those are both awesome albums. If you're up to it, you should give Radio-activitat, Autobahn, and Ralf und Florian a shot. 

Though, for a very long time, Kraftwerk 2 was my favorite.


You shouldn't pass up on Computer World either. It was released pretty late in their career, but it's nevertheless got some excellent music on it, although it is a bit less experimental than their earlier albums.
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Points: 2866 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 17:43
Yay.
Some bands that I have been playing recently.
 
The infamous Throbbing Gristle. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=6504
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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