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CCVP

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 20:03

Slartibartfast wrote:

CCVP wrote:

But then again, the Japanese were pretty much incompetent in everything during the War.

I think they were more about some dumb luck and some bad luck. They wiped out a lot of battleships at Pearl Harbour but the carriers were out to sea. At the battle of Midway they paid a heavy toll. The Kamakazis were a big threat to the US ships. And in the island combat, they were fierce foes. Had it not been for the atomic bombs, we would have paid a heavier price in lives. I for one am glad we are now friends.

Perl Harbour was the begining of the end of them, they had no way to win against the americans, SPECIALLY with such battle tactics they employed
The Kamikazis and the "fierce island battles" were nothing but downright counterproductive and sucidal mindset they had. Being in a civil war for >600 years and then having a industrialized way to kill makes that.
And the Japanese had even less resources than the Germans. Even without the atomic bombs I doubt they would be able to resis much longer without any supply of iron, coal, oil, food, rubber, etc. Wile the Germans counted on their "colonies/conquests" to supply a surplus for their own national production, the Japanese colonies supplied everything they had. Even today Japan have a pretty serious supply problem.

Besides, I don't know if befriending someone who did this without much retaliation is actually something good. Even though the Germans and the Japanese did exactly the same things, the former were absolutelly crushed and stripped of showing pride to such a degree that the simple fact of waving a German flag outside strict situations constitute a crime, wile in Japan the one responsible for authorizing and equiping a totalitarian State ruled untill his death, in 1989. It woudl be the same as having Hitler as the head of Germany for more than 50 years after the end of the war. That is absolutely NOT justified, unther ANY circumstance.

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:50

oh Tony you Nazi Hunter you, fantastic detection

(.. hmm, where's Mr. Blue guy now ?)

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:36

Tony R wrote:

Padraic wrote:

I'm starting to wonder if on doing searches for "holocaust" he discovered this thread, and joined simply to promulgate his filth. I did see him post some things that were actually music related, but anyways.

He will have done a search and as Progarchives features quite high on Google lists he will have found us.

That just shows how important and popular this website has become if its going to attract Neo nazis due to one humble little thread.

The music related things of Blue effect were really qute generic comments that he could have found out about just by surfing here for an hour on various threads.

Its strange really. I began this thread as an interest point to find out more about opinions on the holocaust. I have learnt more than I bargained for through people like Mr Rouse.

Great work too Tony,

I dont even want to know how you did it

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:35

Epignosis wrote:

Genocide =/= killing a lot of people

Right, incredibly I read in the best papers and TV programs, how serial killers or mass murderers are called genocides

Genocide is essentially the systematic killing of a determined:

Race
Religion
Ethnic group
National Group

The term also includes acts of harassment such as

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Source: Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, article 2

Only if this acts are perpetrated with the intention of destroying the group.

Many of the cases of the list I provided wouldn't be strictly genocide,. but being that the term National Group, is so broad, could be included.

Iván

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:05

CCVP wrote:

But then again, the Japanese were pretty much incompetent in everything during the War.

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

CCVP

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 18:12

I always thought that the Japanese massacres were more substantial because of the length of the rule over China, Corea and Indochina and because those regions were much more populated than Europe.

Go figure. . . .

But then again, the Japanese were pretty much incompetent in everything during the War, except when facing outnumbered, outsourced and badly prepared soldiers as adversaries.

EDIT: Also, lol at the stormfrontfags trying to acomplish something outside that pathetic website. Lemme give you a tip, stay in anonymous forums. Just because you are not being B& @ 4chan and krautchan does not mean you can sh*t elsewhere.

Edited by CCVP - February 24 2011 at 18:30

The T

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 17:56

Epignosis wrote:

The T wrote:

Genocide =/= much worse than just plainly killing a lot of people.

Killing a lot of people = bad, no matter race or reason

Killing just one person = also bad.

If a lot of people break into your house to kill your family, would you try to kill them?

I would try to blast them straight to hell.

Of course in individual cases there are exceptions to the rule. Self-defense being the only one.

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:47

If there aren't records the numbers of people wiped out can't really be verified. Man's inhumanity to man is just appalling. "It's only water in a stranger's tear." Dead

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Epignosis

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:42

The T wrote:

Genocide =/= much worse than just plainly killing a lot of people.

Killing a lot of people = bad, no matter race or reason

Killing just one person = also bad.

If a lot of people break into your house to kill your family, would you try to kill them?

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

The T

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:39

Ivan I was actually agreeing with everything you said, though I see the communist have been worse than the fascist dictators.

The T

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:38

Genocide =/= much worse than just plainly killing a lot of people.

Killing a lot of people = bad, no matter race or reason

Killing just one person = also bad.

Epignosis

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:21

Genocide =/= killing a lot of people

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:19

The Dark Elf wrote:

Well, Mr. Plainview, I believe that 9/11 was a direct result of the Holocaust. In a very round about way. Ignoring several important details. Without any consideration for political or historical context. Lacking any real thought involved at all. It's just a belief I have.

Ummm...what were we talking about again?

thats whats called an irrational belief

who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 15:22

The T in red font wrote:

All extremist are cut with the same scissors, and each one is as bad as the other, the only difference is in the number of killed people Not so much. If you add Hitler's, Mussolini's, and all the victims of fascist dictators in South and Central America, they will match pretty well with the numbers generated by Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Kim, and African dictators.

Iván

No T, the numbers can't be equated

The worst genocides of the 20th Century

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)	49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)	23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945)	12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)	8,000,000
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)	5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20)	1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)	1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)	1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)	1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)	1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)	900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)	800,000
Suharto (East Timor, West Papua, Communists, 1966-98)	800,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88)	600,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987)	570,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39)	500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002)	400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001)	400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979)	300,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71)	300,000 (Bangladesh)
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII)	300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97)	?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996)	220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000)	200,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972)	150,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99)	100,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999)	100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79)	?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974)	70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83)	70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71)	60,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990)	40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947)	30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20)	30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain)	30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999)	30,000
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968)	30,000
Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000)	25,000
Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89)	20,000
Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority)	20,000
Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83)	13,000
Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957)	10,000 (war in Algeria)
Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion)	10,000
Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997)	6,000
Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001)	3,500
Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973)	3,000
Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06)	2,000

Mao and Stalin together make more or less 100'000,000. And Scarulfi (who made the chart) is being conservative with Stalin, some talk even of 60 to 100 millions, but I believe it's around 32'000,000), and the population in South and Central America (Except Brazil Argentina, Venezuela and Mexico) is not comparable to this levels.

We must also talk about percentages, the almost 2'000,000 deaths of Cambodia represent 50% of the people of the country, that's impressive, it's like somebody killed 800'000 persons in China today...Imagine 1 of each two persons died killed..

But all are atrocious, no matter the numbers, one is too much.

Iván

The T

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:56

^ Who is?

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:47

I'm not normal.

The T

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:25

^Well said. And I was aiming at the more DSM-IV definition here. That's why I said "just say he's an idiot" or, rephrasing to use psychopathy terms, "Just say insane to the point of danger". But labeling someone without having ever interviewed him or look at his history or something seemed to me extreme. We still haven't determined even if the Blue Effect was even delusional. After all, "normality" itself is quite impossible to determine.

Negoba

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:19

Just to clear up some terminology from someone who had too many classes in this crap...

Psychopath is a term that have been used interchangably with sociopath and usually gets classified as Antisocial Personality Disorder now. It's a pervasive personality pattern that has been studied for a long time and has gone under different names. There's a lot of politicizing of the study because it is so intertwined with ideas of responsibility, crime, and justice. But there does seem to be a personality type that seems to display a great deal of superficial charm, a propensity toward emotional manipulation, and a lack of empathy toward others.

Now, this is very different from the term "psychopathology" in general which is a wastebasket "disease of the mind" term. Further, the term "psychotic" refers to disorders of thought, usually meaning hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, or grossly disordered thought organization.

The point of this is when most people say "Psychopath" they usually mean "criminally crazy." All kinds of different mental problems can cause people to do criminal things. But psychopaths (under my first definition) usually don't look that crazy at all.

Edited by Negoba - February 24 2011 at 13:41

You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

The T

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:08

The Dark Elf wrote:

The T wrote:

Dark Elf, why do you assume this Blue Effect is a psychopath? I'm quite sure you know what a psychopath is. Have you interviewed him? Have you had therapy with him? You're just as egomaniac as he is, trying to amaze everybody with your full psychological profile of a person you haven't met in your life. Can't you just say "he seemed to be an idiot"?

I would say the fallacies he wishes to propogate are idiotic, but I wouldn't refer to him personally as an idiot. It's a manner of speaking. An "idiot" as in a "guy I can't stand". I know he's not mentally challenged. On the contrary, he is probably very intelligent but mentally unstable ??-- and quite dangerous in both his stated beliefs and his deceptive manner of posting.

And perhaps the use of the term "pyschopath" would be too harsh in this instance, as I have not interviewed him; however, he has exhibited psycopathic tendencies here in this thread such as manipulation, rationalization, and a lack of conscience or empathy. Is he suffering or causing other people suffering / distress with his deviances from the norm? If not, he doesn't fit in any realm of abnormal psychology. Perhaps even a bit of pathlogical lying to go with his manipulation. The subtle use of the term "Blue Effect" in almost a double-entendre manner (when all along denying the fact that he was a white supremacist and Holocaust denier -- perhaps even proponent) suggests psychosis. That's quite extreme. You're calling delusional a guy you've never met or talked with.

And I would not deign to "amaze everybody" on this enlightened forum. Just merely stating an opinion on a general discussions thread. Ok. But doing a full psychological profile of someone using a few words in a polemical thread seems to me a little.... overreaching.

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Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:01

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

toroddfuglesteg wrote:

The T wrote:

What about the cambodian genocide?

You know; it really twists my tail feathers when those who called Pol Pot and the Red Khmeer regime visionaries and true democrats when these visitors from Europe and USA walked through the empty capitol Phonm Pen. The city dwellers were working on the land, the visitors was told. The truth was; they were already massacred. Their crimes ? They lived in a city.

Where are these visitors now, well after the Pol Pot's hideous crimes has been exposed to the whole world ? Oh, they are sitting in their offices and is calling the Cambodia genocide the "alledged Cambodia genocide". It was reported by the privately owned media = it must be US/CIA propaganda against progressive, "freedom loving" far lefties. Most of these who visited Pol Pot have good jobs........ but they still puts the whole blame for these "alledged" genocides on CIA.

Holocaust was truly the most hideous crime ever. But there is no excuse whatsoever to still play down or even deny the existence of the Cambodia genocide and the other genocide you, surely by accident have forgotten; the Chinese Cultural revolution.

Those who excuse/denies the Cambodia genocide and the Cultural Revolotion are morally in the same boat as the Holocaust deniers. The evidence is there and every excuse for these crimes = lies and utter lies. These genocide apologists should be exposed, named, shamed and left to rot as the pariahs they are.

Argh !!

Sorry, but these far leftist genocide excusers really gets my tail feathers badly twisted out of shape.

I know a member will jump to the ceiling and make a scandal (he already called me ignorant on another forum because I said this in Prog Archives).

But it's clear, Fascist, Nazis and Extreme Communist regimes have amazing similarities, to the point you can't tell which is which except for the racist nonsense (Well, Chavez and Evo Morales have started to install a communist Nationalist RACIST government in their countries, and are supporting the Ollanta Humala in Perú who in the last elections promised to shot gays and white people).

We've seen how guys like Pol Pot or Stalin, have annihilated every person who came from a determined race (In Cambodia the kids with black inheritance were almost pariahs), while Stalin also killed millions Jewish, Gypsies and other minorities.

Not to talk about Mao, who tried to destroy all traces of other cultures.

Now, reading Mein Kampf, specifically the NASDAP PROGRAMME, I don't know were Hitler ends and Marx starts:

We demand therefore:
11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.

The breaking of the slavery of interest
12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits. (expropriation, the first act of every Communist dictator).

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts) (Nationalization is the second step)

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises. "Equality" "Wealth redistribution"

15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age. "New rights"

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. (Land reform wow, Castro would be proud)

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race. Notice the use of the word "common" in both ideologies.

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law (Every leftist dictator creates a new set of laws to be an eternal President or Prime Minister )

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the nation of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State. (Education is always controlled by Communist dictators, if they control the young, they control everybody)

21. The State must ensure that the nation's health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth. Notice how "the State" decides everything in both

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary army and the foundation of a people's army. (People's Army...wow. this is a deja vu from the Communist manifesto)

23. (...)

The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. (Stalin, Castro, Chavez, Morales, etc, etc .) We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand.(Do you know a communist Government where Press hasn't been the first victim?)

24. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, (Communist Governments also enforce mandatory atheism)

25. To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creeation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

God!!! This is exact to what any extreme left Government would do

Iván

I don't know who could call you ignorant or fanatic for saying the truth. Fascism and communism are brother ideology, totally related. Both require an over-powerful omniscient central planner and both direct economics leaving no room for individual enterprise. Both have "goals" of their own, both have dogma-like characteristics, both have fanatic proponents who despise all middle ground. Both ideologies depend totally on a government that directs every little minor detail in a person's life. One does it for the sake of "the collective", the other one for the sake of "the nation". Both use the idea of the common enemy to incite hate and allegiance to their madness: a different race in fascism, the rich in communism, the ones "against the state" in one, "the bourgeoisie" in the other, AND BOTH HATE CAPITALISM AND THE FREE MARKET.

You have stated something that for any person who has actually read history and politics is a FACT. Both are cults of the State above all.

Edited by The T - February 24 2011 at 13:05