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Topic ClosedIs Mike Portnoy ruining Dream Theater?

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jampa17 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:38
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

1. Mike Portnoy *is* Dream Theater. Ok, Petrucci also has some influence, but Mike is the boss. And I doubt he would ruin the band ... they made their mark, and if he takes them into a direction that I don't like, so what.
2. IMO Octavarium was the creative low point ... I liked Systematic Chaos (except for two songs) and I really like BC&SL.
 
I have the two editions of their official Biography, so yes, I'm one of those hard fans... and it reveals a lot of insides. Mike is the boss... sure, but Petrucci is the partner, the difference is that John is a lot open to the ideas of Mike, and at the end, the interest and control freak of Mike is what has taken them to how succesful they are now... just like Mario Bros said above, if you like it or not, that's your problem... but they are not ruined, the fan base is there to show it... now, if they sell out someday, you can be sure their fanbase would be lost... but well....
 
I don't hear BC is power metal... The Best of Times is not power metal and The Count of Tuscany.. no... no lord..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:37
Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
I have no problem with popularity, I don't care one cent whether they sell 1000 copies or 10 million. I don't care about the lenght of the songs either, there are so many records I love in which there is no song longer than 5 min. What I am talking about is the music.
 
I'm just saying that the music they are making in their last albums is uninspired, it seems conciously and coldly constructed to please a certain audience. One song to please the Muse fans, one song to please the Metallica fans, one song to please the proggies, one song to please the Tool fans..... let's try to please them all !.  But the result is cold and mechanical. For my taste. You are certainly entitled to like it. 
 
Until now you are the only one worthy to answer to... so... let's see... if they want to explore different sounds like Muse or Evanescence then they are stealing, if they do the same old 90's prog metal, then they are not proggressing...? can you please define yourself...?

You already posted this, and Nightshine already posted a response to it. Confused

Originally posted by Nightshine Nightshine wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
I have no problem with popularity, I don't care one cent whether they sell 1000 copies or 10 million. I don't care about the lenght of the songs either, there are so many records I love in which there is no song longer than 5 min. What I am talking about is the music.
 
I'm just saying that the music they are making in their last albums is uninspired, it seems conciously and coldly constructed to please a certain audience. One song to please the Muse fans, one song to please the Metallica fans, one song to please the proggies, one song to please the Tool fans..... let's try to please them all !.  But the result is cold and mechanical. For my taste. You are certainly entitled to like it. 
 
Until now you are the only one worthy to answer to... so... let's see... if they want to explore different sounds like muse of Evanescence then they are stealing, if they do the same old 90's prog metal, then they are not proggressing...? can you please define yourself...?


If you make your influence blatantly obvious and act like you're tough sh*t while you do it, you're not progressing, you're regressing.


End of discussion.

See?


Edited by JLocke - May 21 2010 at 14:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:29
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
I have no problem with popularity, I don't care one cent whether they sell 1000 copies or 10 million. I don't care about the lenght of the songs either, there are so many records I love in which there is no song longer than 5 min. What I am talking about is the music.
 
I'm just saying that the music they are making in their last albums is uninspired, it seems conciously and coldly constructed to please a certain audience. One song to please the Muse fans, one song to please the Metallica fans, one song to please the proggies, one song to please the Tool fans..... let's try to please them all !.  But the result is cold and mechanical. For my taste. You are certainly entitled to like it. 
 
Until now you are the only one worthy to answer to... so... let's see... if they want to explore different sounds like Muse or Evanescence then they are stealing, if they do the same old 90's prog metal, then they are not proggressing...? can you please define yourself...?


Edited by jampa17 - May 21 2010 at 14:30
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:25
^ BC&SL is certainly much better than SC. I still don't like it, but anything is better than what came before, in my opinion. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:24
I've heard The Count of Tuscany. I thought it was good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:24
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

1. Mike Portnoy *is* Dream Theater. Ok, Petrucci also has some influence, but Mike is the boss.
2. IMO Octavarium was the creative low point ... I liked Systematic Chaos (except for two songs) and I really like BC&SL.

1. I already said Portnoy guides the band. But I've seen footage of he and Petrucci arguing over who's idea gets into the final product, and he is Co-Producer, so I know they are both just as involved during the creative process. That's all I said, and I'm sticking by that statement. 
2. Your personal opinion on something won't sway me. BC&SL is Power Metal garbage. In my opinion. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:23
How does it feel to be amongst us morons Mike?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:20
1. Mike Portnoy *is* Dream Theater. Ok, Petrucci also has some influence, but Mike is the boss. And I doubt he would ruin the band ... they made their mark, and if he takes them into a direction that I don't like, so what.
2. IMO Octavarium was the creative low point ... I liked Systematic Chaos (except for two songs) and I really like BC&SL.


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - May 21 2010 at 14:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:11
it depends on what you mean by 'ruin'. 

Portnoy certainly guides the band, and the other guys tend to just go with the flow, but Petrucci has just as much say in the songwriting process as Portnoy does, I can guarantee you. They both think that they are in a Metal band these days. They don't realize that what made them great was their initial ambition as a modern Prog Rock band with Metal linings. Those days are long over, it seems, and DT will most likely never be a Progressive band again. You can either accept that and enjoy what they are doing now, or you can consider them 'ruined' simply because they don't sound like they used to. 

I tend to be somewhere near the middle. I admit, I'm a fence-sitter when it comes to this band. The talent is clearly there, and their technical abilities ensure that they will never be halted in their playing style. They could make a Jazz record tomorrow if they wanted, and it would be technically sound. My issue with these guys right now is that despite all the potential, they seem to have lost whatever it was that drove them back in the beginning. Perhaps they don't even realize it themselves, but a lot of that 'magic' is gone. I think they just don't care as much about pushing new ground as they once did. They are happy playing their power metal and as long as people pay, they'll stay in that territory for awhile. 

Then again, I adore Octavarium, and that was only two albums ago, so perhaps there is still some hope. Clever rhythms and hard-to-play leads do not good music make. There has to be some heart behind it first, and for right now, these guys don't seem to have it. But again, there are plenty of bands who I think make boring music these days, and they don't have nearly as loyal a fan base as Dream Theater, so if they were truly 'ruined' as a band, the following wouldn't still be as strong as it is. Everything I just said was only my opinion, and clearly there are others who beg to differ. Ruined? No. Different? Yes, very. I don't necessarily like this new DT, but I'm still in the minority as of this point. The DT camp is stronger than ever, and their public exposure is also going to play a role in the direction they take, I'm sure. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:09
Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
I have no problem with popularity, I don't care one cent whether they sell 1000 copies or 10 million. I don't care about the lenght of the songs either, there are so many records I love in which there is no song longer than 5 min. What I am talking about is the music.
 
I'm just saying that the music they are making in their last albums is uninspired, it seems conciously and coldly constructed to please a certain audience. One song to please the Muse fans, one song to please the Metallica fans, one song to please the proggies, one song to please the Tool fans..... let's try to please them all !.  But the result is cold and mechanical. For my taste. You are certainly entitled to like it. 
 
Until now you are the only one worthy to answer to... so... let's see... if they want to explore different sounds like muse of Evanescence then they are stealing, if they do the same old 90's prog metal, then they are not proggressing...? can you please define yourself...?


If you make your influence blatantly obvious and act like you're tough sh*t while you do it, you're not progressing, you're regressing.


End of discussion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:07
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
I have no problem with popularity, I don't care one cent whether they sell 1000 copies or 10 million. I don't care about the lenght of the songs either, there are so many records I love in which there is no song longer than 5 min. What I am talking about is the music.
 
I'm just saying that the music they are making in their last albums is uninspired, it seems conciously and coldly constructed to please a certain audience. One song to please the Muse fans, one song to please the Metallica fans, one song to please the proggies, one song to please the Tool fans..... let's try to please them all !.  But the result is cold and mechanical. For my taste. You are certainly entitled to like it. 
 
Until now you are the only one worthy to answer to... so... let's see... if they want to explore different sounds like muse of Evanescence then they are stealing, if they do the same old 90's prog metal, then they are not proggressing...? can you please define yourself...?
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:03
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Nightshine Nightshine wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...




....


Is this really your argument?

You've got to be kidding me.

And what is YOUR argument? Just saying "you've got to be kidding me"? 

Anyway, I love you little trolls.. They make the day more interesting. 



Honesty is trolling now, guys!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:02
Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
I have no problem with popularity, I don't care one cent whether they sell 1000 copies or 10 million. I don't care about the lenght of the songs either, there are so many records I love in which there is no song longer than 5 min. What I am talking about is the music.
 
I'm just saying that the music they are making in their last albums is uninspired, it seems conciously and coldly constructed to please a certain audience. One song to please the Muse fans, one song to please the Metallica fans, one song to please the proggies, one song to please the Tool fans..... let's try to please them all !.  But the result is cold and mechanical. For my taste. You are certainly entitled to like it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:01
Just listen to Porcupine Tree and all of your problems will be solved. Tongue
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 14:01
Originally posted by Nightshine Nightshine wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...




....


Is this really your argument?

You've got to be kidding me.

And what is YOUR argument? Just saying "you've got to be kidding me"? 

Anyway, I love you little trolls.. They make the day more interesting. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:53
Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...




....


Is this really your argument?

You've got to be kidding me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:50
You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:50
You mean a commercial album, like Black Clouds with 3 songs longer than most... and dark and heavy...? is that commercial...? does the people how buy the album the first week and rise it to the top6 of Billboard, do you think they buy it because of the single? or it was just loyal fans...? if it's a sin to be succesful eventhough they are not selling out.... there's a problem but with the audience, not with the band...
 
I know this album is not in the level of Images and Words, but it is still a lot better than most prog metal bands out there... whether you agree or not... the popularity of DT is growing... now, if you are so snob to believe that more audience is bad for bands... well... that's really... your problem...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:31
For my taste they have not released anything really good since Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It's like they lost their inspiration.
I had expected that getting Jordan Rudess would turn them more to the prog side but obviously I was wrong. It's already too many album releases in which I think "come on, this next one is gotta be the really prog one", but it does not happen and on the contrary it only gets worse and worse.
 
It's funny because after "Falling into Infinity" they were so pissed off with Atlantic because it forced them to make more commercial music. They got freedom for Metropolis Pt2 and it was indeed a terrific album and their most prog and non-commercial (at that time), which seemed to mean that when given freedom, these guys would realease amazing prog music.
 
However, now that they have all the freedom they could wish for, they release more and more commercial albums, and less and less inspired.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 13:29
Another arrogant punk here... Why why why... Why is prog so full of these people... 
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