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JLocke 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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 Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:27 |
 Evans wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Lonely Progger wrote:
I do consider Labrie a but as a musical deadweight ^^, How can you respect a singer who doesn't contribute to the music and doesn't even write the lyrics he sings !
But he must feel crushed by Petrucci's and Rudess' musical knowledge most of the time and he isn't really a progger to, Mike Portnoy said he listened to maroon 5 and stuff like that . So it must be quite hard for him to find his place in the machine that is Dream theater.
Top rate albums to you, but not to the majority so would you have nothing to say ?
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Based on what you have typed here, it seems to me that you a) Dislike LaBrie because he doesn't play an instrument (by the way, he DOES write lyrics, just not every album), and you b) Think that Mike Portnoy shouldn't be respected since he likes to diversify his musical taste and listen to something other than prog every now and then. Am I correct so far?
Well, based on that, you and I seem to be very different people, so I don't know if you will share my opinion on this, but hey, I'll give it a whirl anyway . . .
Personally, I think Octavarium was one of DT's best albums in years, because they went back to what made them truly great to begin with: they lessened the extended solos, gave the keyboards a more tastefull and atmohperic role, and had a diverse collection of song styles grouped together. Systematic Chaos was a letdown for me, because for the first time (not even on ToT did I feel this way) it seems that DT wants to be nothing but a straightforward metal band. It isn't because of the label change, because Opeth is still the same band post-Roadrunner signing, so it was obviousely the band's choice to go that one-dimentional. Petrucci once said in an interview that he wouldn't respect himself if he wrote completely fictional lyrics. Well, every single one of his songs on SC were ridiculous, typicall metal lyrics telling stories of zombies, vampires and other such nonsense. Way to raise the bar there, John. 
So in my opinion, what Dream Theater ''needs'' is a wake-up call. But let's hope that this madness was only for this one record. |
Maybe he thought, when he said that thing about the fictional lyrics, that he was at a place in his life where he thought it appropriate to write about reality instead of vampires, and now there has been a few years and he's expressed what he wanted to express so he tries something new istead?
Honestly, you people want bands to progress instead of doing what works, but still you blame them when they go another direction that the exact one you wanted them to go.
Still, zombie lyrics are pretty silly. I'll give you that one.
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Well, of course you are right about the progressing thing, but honestly, I don't mind at all when a band changes , and DT have done it time and again, and I have never had a problem with it, but I have at times greatly disliked it. It doesn't mean I don't want them to change, it just means that I don't always enjoy the result of them doing so. I'm just being honest, and not some fanboy who thinks everything they do is God.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:21 |
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Honestly...
1. Humor (and not coming from honky-tonk carnival keyboard crap)
2. More diverse drumming.
3. Let go of the 12-step recovery thing, Portnoy. Yeesh.
4. Get off RoadRunner records. Gah.
5. Have the covers of your albums be not like Systematic Chaos.
6. Accentuate your songs with metal, because "The Dark Eternal Night" was totally not where you should be going.
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Evans
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3004
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:11 |
p0mt3 wrote:
Lonely Progger wrote:
I do consider Labrie a but as a musical deadweight ^^, How can you respect a singer who doesn't contribute to the music and doesn't even write the lyrics he sings !
But he must feel crushed by Petrucci's and Rudess' musical knowledge most of the time and he isn't really a progger to, Mike Portnoy said he listened to maroon 5 and stuff like that. So it must be quite hard for him to find his place in the machine that is Dream theater.
Top rate albums to you, but not to the majority so would you have nothing to say ?
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Based on what you have typed here, it seems to me that you a) Dislike LaBrie because he doesn't play an instrument (by the way, he DOES write lyrics, just not every album), and you b) Think that Mike Portnoy shouldn't be respected since he likes to diversify his musical taste and listen to something other than prog every now and then. Am I correct so far?
Well, based on that, you and I seem to be very different people, so I don't know if you will share my opinion on this, but hey, I'll give it a whirl anyway . . .
Personally, I think Octavarium was one of DT's best albums in years, because they went back to what made them truly great to begin with: they lessened the extended solos, gave the keyboards a more tastefull and atmohperic role, and had a diverse collection of song styles grouped together. Systematic Chaos was a letdown for me, because for the first time (not even on ToT did I feel this way) it seems that DT wants to be nothing but a straightforward metal band. It isn't because of the label change, because Opeth is still the same band post-Roadrunner signing, so it was obviousely the band's choice to go that one-dimentional. Petrucci once said in an interview that he wouldn't respect himself if he wrote completely fictional lyrics. Well, every single one of his songs on SC were ridiculous, typicall metal lyrics telling stories of zombies, vampires and other such nonsense. Way to raise the bar there, John.
So in my opinion, what Dream Theater ''needs'' is a wake-up call. But let's hope that this madness was only for this one record. |
Maybe he thought, when he said that thing about the fictional lyrics, that he was at a place in his life where he thought it appropriate to write about reality instead of vampires, and now there has been a few years and he's expressed what he wanted to express so he tries something new istead? Honestly, you people want bands to progress instead of doing what works, but still you blame them when they go another direction that the exact one you wanted them to go. Still, zombie lyrics are pretty silly. I'll give you that one.
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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EnglishAssassin
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:06 |
rileydog22 wrote:
EnglishAssassin wrote:
Fewer fanboys.
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Peter? Is that you?
What did we tell you about hacking people's accounts and correcting grammar from them?
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I'm no Peter. It's just one of those little things that annoys me to an unreasonable extent.
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LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:03 |
I'd say they need a big hug, judging from many of the replies here  .
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 18:59 |
EnglishAssassin wrote:
Fewer fanboys.
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Peter? Is that you? What did we tell you about hacking people's accounts and correcting grammar from them?
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EnglishAssassin
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 16:51 |
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Fewer fanboys.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 16:03 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 16:01 |
Lonely Progger wrote:
I do consider Labrie a but as a musical deadweight ^^, How can you respect a singer who doesn't contribute to the music and doesn't even write the lyrics he sings !
But he must feel crushed by Petrucci's and Rudess' musical knowledge most of the time and he isn't really a progger to, Mike Portnoy said he listened to maroon 5 and stuff like that. So it must be quite hard for him to find his place in the machine that is Dream theater.
Top rate albums to you, but not to the majority so would you have nothing to say ?
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Based on what you have typed here, it seems to me that you a) Dislike LaBrie because he doesn't play an instrument (by the way, he DOES write lyrics, just not every album), and you b) Think that Mike Portnoy shouldn't be respected since he likes to diversify his musical taste and listen to something other than prog every now and then. Am I correct so far?
Well, based on that, you and I seem to be very different people, so I don't know if you will share my opinion on this, but hey, I'll give it a whirl anyway . . .
Personally, I think Octavarium was one of DT's best albums in years, because they went back to what made them truly great to begin with: they lessened the extended solos, gave the keyboards a more tastefull and atmohperic role, and had a diverse collection of song styles grouped together. Systematic Chaos was a letdown for me, because for the first time (not even on ToT did I feel this way) it seems that DT wants to be nothing but a straightforward metal band. It isn't because of the label change, because Opeth is still the same band post-Roadrunner signing, so it was obviousely the band's choice to go that one-dimentional. Petrucci once said in an interview that he wouldn't respect himself if he wrote completely fictional lyrics. Well, every single one of his songs on SC were ridiculous, typicall metal lyrics telling stories of zombies, vampires and other such nonsense. Way to raise the bar there, John.
So in my opinion, what Dream Theater ''needs'' is a wake-up call. But let's hope that this madness was only for this one record.
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 22:49 |
oroboross wrote:
Dream Theater has one thing going for them above every other progrock/metal band. They have done it all without the support of radio. During the '70s radio was the greatest supporter of progrock. That has not been the case since the '80s to present. DT has continued to write original complex music since the late '80s that appeals to very large amount of people around the world for one reason, they write music for their fans and not for the reasons almost every other band writes, for the bucks and charts. Even Fates Warning who have been around longer than any other progmetal band has not had the success that DT has. Why? Talent. As great as Fates is DT has gone beyond where Fates went and took progmetal to the place progrock was during it's heyday. DT needs nothing but to keep writing for their fans and ignore everybody who thinks they know what DT needs. |
I agree with most of those points, but where do we draw the fine line as to what is 'writing for the fans' and 'writing for themselves'? Dream Theater has fans that have a more narrow view of what they should sound like, while some like me, want to see them expand as much as possible. Albums like ToT, seriously divided many fans, because I think that album was written for themselves first and foremost. To many people it didn't fall within the expected DT sound, not 'classic DT' enough. But for the rest of us, it still had many recognisable elements of their sound, but we loved ToT, because it showed us a side of DT we had not heard before, and IMO still continued to expand upon what they had done prior to ToT.
I tend not to expect too much of a particular sound from DT, because I know they are capable of doing something different each time. I'm no fan boy, I've never been in love with everything they did (as I mentioned in an earlier post, Octavarium was not exactly a favourite of mine), but I will always believe they will have some creative steam left to release.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 18:50 |
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 18:49 |
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2819
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 18:42 |
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Less fanboys.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 16:14 |
I would like to hear John Myung more in the mix (Although there is a slight improvement on SC)
Maybe to move away from the Metallica influence a bit
Other than that they are perfect!
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oroboross
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 28 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 16:02 |
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Dream Theater has one thing going for them above every other progrock/metal band. They have done it all without the support of radio. During the '70s radio was the greatest supporter of progrock. That has not been the case since the '80s to present. DT has continued to write original complex music since the late '80s that appeals to very large amount of people around the world for one reason, they write music for their fans and not for the reasons almost every other band writes, for the bucks and charts. Even Fates Warning who have been around longer than any other progmetal band has not had the success that DT has. Why? Talent. As great as Fates is DT has gone beyond where Fates went and took progmetal to the place progrock was during it's heyday. DT needs nothing but to keep writing for their fans and ignore everybody who thinks they know what DT needs.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 15:35 |
 we have enough mad Scots I'm sure... exactly Teo.. is has happened with other groups.. so when the primary creative well has run dry.. you have two choices.. pick at that dead carcass as long as fans will buy it.. .or mutate the sound.. try something different. Sure some fans might be lost... but just look at Yes in the early 80's. They kept the open-minded old fans.. and gained new legions of fans... why did make all those new fans.. .because they did one hell of a great album. Again.. I don't think DT has that in them... but I would LOVE to be proven wrong and see them do a stylistic shifts ... that is what we love prog for isn't it. Challenging the listener... and pushing the boundaries.. not just 'of music' but of the ARTIST'S boundaries. Anyhow... just some mental masturbation.
Edited by micky - February 13 2008 at 15:37
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 15:28 |
micky wrote:
The T wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
They need to hone their songwriting skills for starters... They sure can play, but it is not enough to make memorable music. As Micky and I have very often said, they have something to learn from the likes of Caravan - who may not have been as technically gifted as DT are, but who knew how to write a really memorable song. And then, if they gave LaBrie the boot and hired a good vocalist, they would stand to gain immensely.
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I insist.... they don't NEED anything.... we as fans (or no-fans but in general, we as listeners) NEED them to have this or that or that.... if it was possible, we all would do some changes in most ANY music we've ever heard... at l;east minor things that would make it even more appealing to us.... but it's not that DT NEEDS anything.... you, him, them, etc, YOU NEED those changes... not the band....
Anyway, I NEED a cup of coffee...  |
hahhaha... or maybe a shot of whiskey there Teo....
any group.. no matter how good... runs the risk of the well running dry.. even the more creative of groups finally run out of steam.. Do you think their last albums are as good as the earlier albums... will future albums be any better.. any more interesting or creative than what they have done now... I doubt that. Only the rarest of the rare of groups can continue to make dynamic creative music without falling into a trap of just going through the motions.
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About the well running dry, that's true but it's another mattter and happens to every band (not only DT).... Yes, 6DOIT and TOT weren't so good for me, 8 was better, and the last one was a return to form... but again, that happens to any band... it's not that only DT NEEDS to stop the well from runnign dry... all bands shall need that (or so we would like).... but it's not an inherent aspect of DT....
About the whiskey, I have to work... but later I don't object... as long as it doesn't turn me into a mad scotman the likes of which we've seen....
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66588
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 15:16 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
TMV's latest album is a bit hard to swallow... I do like it, but it is way too dense. I understand some people being put off by it big time.
As to Caravan, they are just an example of a band with great songwriting skills. I happen to love them to death, so I mentioned them - but I could've easily mentioned other bands, such as Rush or King Crimson, who are closer to DT in a musical sense (well, at least Rush are...).
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They used to get compared to Rush. I heard some similarity but no more. I can hear some possible KC influence.
DT needs one good Space Rock album. But it might sound musically like Pink Floyd in double time with one huge guitar, key, and drum solo.  |
The comparisons of TMV to Rush is what led me to listen to them, but I don't like them all that much yet either, although I am trying and think that they might grow on me. Interesting that two big Rush fans don't really like them all that much, and yet, Ghost Rider, is also a big Rush fan and really likes TMV. Goes to show that even PA members who you think you have real similar tastes with can still like different things.
I'm with Teo regarding DT. I have no problems with them being just the way they are. I'd rather change Opeth by making Akerfeldt sing clean vocals all the time but that is another rant for another thread.
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tillo
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 19 2008
Location: Madrid
Status: Offline
Points: 29
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 15:12 |
The T wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
They need to hone their songwriting skills for starters... They sure can play, but it is not enough to make memorable music. As Micky and I have very often said, they have something to learn from the likes of Caravan - who may not have been as technically gifted as DT are, but who knew how to write a really memorable song. And then, if they gave LaBrie the boot and hired a good vocalist, they would stand to gain immensely.
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I insist.... they don't NEED anything.... we as fans (or no-fans but in general, we as listeners) NEED them to have this or that or that.... if it was possible, we all would do some changes in most ANY music we've ever heard... at l;east minor things that would make it even more appealing to us.... but it's not that DT NEEDS anything.... you, him, them, etc, YOU NEED those changes... not the band....
Anyway, I NEED a cup of coffee... |
totally agree
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please, visit http://roberto-land.myminicity.es/
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 15:06 |
The T wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
They need to hone their songwriting skills for starters... They sure can play, but it is not enough to make memorable music. As Micky and I have very often said, they have something to learn from the likes of Caravan - who may not have been as technically gifted as DT are, but who knew how to write a really memorable song. And then, if they gave LaBrie the boot and hired a good vocalist, they would stand to gain immensely.
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I insist.... they don't NEED anything.... we as fans (or no-fans but in general, we as listeners) NEED them to have this or that or that.... if it was possible, we all would do some changes in most ANY music we've ever heard... at l;east minor things that would make it even more appealing to us.... but it's not that DT NEEDS anything.... you, him, them, etc, YOU NEED those changes... not the band....
Anyway, I NEED a cup of coffee... |
hahhaha... or maybe a shot of whiskey there Teo.... any group.. no matter how good... runs the risk of the well running dry.. even the more creative of groups finally run out of steam.. Do you think their last albums are as good as the earlier albums... will future albums be any better.. any more interesting or creative than what they have done now... I doubt that. Only the rarest of the rare of groups can continue to make dynamic creative music without falling into a trap of just going through the motions.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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What does Dream Theater need ?
