Double-bass drumming...

Yes, when it fits the music

i like it when it fits the music

Here's an interesting example, Friede:

http://www.painofsalvation.com/samples.htm

Listen to the track "Handful of Nothing" and tell me what you think about it.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ I couldn't stand a world without cheese. To me technicality is one of the required attributes of a good musician ... to others it doesn't matter at all. And some people don't like when musicians show how well they can play - whenever the technicality becomes too aparent they complain that it's too flashy (or what you call "Kraftmeierei"). In classical music people do it all the time and nobody would *dare* to complain about it. They have to stick to the composition note for note and are only allowed to make tiny, almost inaudible variations ... nobody complains. Now should I feel bad when I like the same thing in rock and metal? I don't think so - and neither should you or anyone else feel bad because of our disagreements.

Technicality is one thing, Mike. I have nothing against technicality at all; on the contrary, I very much admire it. But if technicality does not serve the music it becomes hollow. And these double bass drum acrobatics are nothing but "Mätzchen", in my opinion.
If I ever used two bass drums in a kit (which is not likely), I would do something completely different with them, which from a technical point of view is just as difficult as playing 16ths on them. I have developed a certain accelerating rhythm pattern that changes between four against three and three against two all the time, but changing the extremity that keeps the steady beat; thus the rhythm slowly accelerates. It is quite difficult to explain (but easy to demonstrate with a drum kit). The interesting thing about this is that I only accelerate one extremity. I will try to explain it by using the hands as example: Both hands play a steady beat, but while the left hand plays three beats in a certain time the right hand plays four at the same time, or let's rather say the left hand plays six while the right hand plays eight, because that easier shows what happens. I keep the pace of the left hand then and accelerate the pace of the right hand a bit, so it plays nine steady beats now at the same time the left hand plays six. The tricky part is what follows: I then accelerate the left hand again, so that we are back to six against eight, but since both hands have accelerated I am back in the original rhythm, only faster! Since the tempo shift is done switching between the hands one hand always keeps a steady pace while the other accelerates, only the hands switch in doing so. This is a very interesting effect and a bit stunning for the listener, who can't quite understand why it gets faster, since one hand always keeps the pace. Doing something like that with two bass drums instead of the hands would be about the only thing that would interest me in it.
The other two extremities you can either use the same way or use them for syncopating only (which I prefer), because of this special kind of accelerating which mathematically doesn't allow anything else.

^ I couldn't stand a world without cheese.

To me technicality is one of the required attributes of a good musician ... to others it doesn't matter at all. And some people don't like when musicians show how well they can play - whenever the technicality becomes too aparent they complain that it's too flashy (or what you call "Kraftmeierei"). In classical music people do it all the time and nobody would *dare* to complain about it. They have to stick to the composition note for note and are only allowed to make tiny, almost inaudible variations ... nobody complains.

Now should I feel bad when I like the same thing in rock and metal? I don't think so - and neither should you or anyone else feel bad because of our disagreements.

^ I like many things, including technicality. That's one of the reasons why I also like classical music and jazz, which are far more technical than rock or metal. Still, the technicality does not automatically rule out taste.

BTW: It was a drum solo ... of course he includes show effects. He doesn't want to bore the audience to tears!

Edit: Did all the stick twirling distract you from the topic ... I would have expected better from you! What about the double bass/cymbal pattern around 2:30?


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 27 2007 at 06:08

^ here's a video that should be interesting to watch for any drummer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inhckpMxxdo

... around 2:25 he plays an interesting mix of ultra-fast double bass and hi-hat "simulated" with a very small cymbal.

When it fits the music

By the way: I voted for "I prefer double bass guitar", like Magma occasionally do. There is a YouTube video of them where you can see that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehU3-Wxkuk4

BaldFriede wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: willy wrote: there are very few drummers that I accept double bass from.  As said above, Ginger Baker is one of them. Its very possibly to play a single bass at the same speed as double (JoJo Mayer anyone?), and given that, there are very few things you *need* a double bass for.  If anything it just drowns out the rest of the music anyway. Why only use one bass drum when you have two legs? It's like playing guitar parts with downstrokes only when you could use alternate picking. A waste of energy! That's nonsense, Mike, and you know it. I would agree with you if the other foot didn't do anything with drummers who only use one bass drum, but that's of course not true. If you use the devcice of two bass drums, you have to give up one of the nicest things about drumming: Elegantly counterpointing the rhythm with a hi-hat. The only thing you get with double bass drums is a stress on every single note, but musically that makes as much sense as repeating the letter "a" again and again in a novel. It is nothing more than "Kraftmeierei", an untranslatable German word. Oh, and by the way:  Why does no-one ever think of using two hi-hats?

Baldfriede, I couldn't agree with you more! Both on this and your first post in the thread.