Brexit: A change of heart??

I think I'm past caring now. There isn't anything any of us can do, so why bother losing any sleep.

I suspect we'll get a short extension, but for what??? Any deal our PM tables will be rejected purely because it's her deal. Brexit die hards in her own party will want to make no concessions to the EU, and even if the Labour party agreed with every single item within it, they would still vote it down on principle. This is the problem, it's a party political issue, not one of national interest.

What should have happened is that May should have assembled a cross party Brexit committee to decide what was in the best interests of the country. This would have separated those MP's who genuinely had the country's best interests at heart, and those who only wanted to serve themselves or their party, and they could have been measured and judged accordingly in the media. As it is, the government and opposition are still fighting for control of the steering wheel, even as the bus goes over the cliff. That's how pathetic and self serving this revolting class of sh*theads really are. They are a waste of skin, and I wouldn't be surprised if the EU discarded us, as if removing a tick from a cats ear.

Edited by Blacksword - March 14 2019 at 02:24

yeah.... I can see that happening as well..  zero good choices but that is what happens when you jump off a cliff without a parachute.. or any kind of plan.  Bad endings almost always the result

Edited by micky - March 13 2019 at 18:49

jamesbaldwin wrote: Man With Hat wrote: If I lived in the UK I would have voted remain.  I knew that in urban areas, staying in the EU prevailed. In rural areas with many immigrants, leaving the EU prevailed.

Man With Hat wrote: If I lived in the UK I would have voted remain.

Currently halfway through Jonathan Coe's latest book, Middle England, which can be seen as Rotter's Club Chapter three.

Edited by Sean Trane - March 07 2019 at 01:39

rogerthat wrote: A single currency without a fiscal union, let alone a single political state, was always going to be a disaster.  I hold no brief for America as someone who is neither American nor European, but given how much Europeans pat themselves on their backs for their superior intelligence vis a vis 'dumb' Americans, I have to ask how the f**k do you guys (to be clear a figurative you) still defend the Eurozone the way it exists now?And if you agree it is flawed, why do you still not want to do something about it?  And if it is going to be impossible to do something about it in spite of all the best intentions, maybe it's best to just go back to the old currencies however much that would be embarrassing not to mention extremely expensive and cumbersome in the short run? In the end, the Euro was just an ill thought out attempt driven mainly by Germany and France to create a new currency to counter the US hegemony.  And to that end, it has largely worked but at what cost to the 'southern' half of the Eurozone.

Absolutely spot on, and I agree with everything you say here.

I support the idea of Europe, but not THIS Europe. This project driven by political idealism rather than pragmatism.

The Euro has been a disaster for Europe. Greece should go back to the Drachma. Italy should go back to the Lira. Spain and Portugal should also abandon the Euro. Maybe Germany, Belgium, and Luxembourg should keep the Euro if they want, plus one or two other countries, but the rest should abandon it.

Of course the Euro was introduced not only to create a currency to rival the dollar, but also to force european countries into closer union by means of a common currency.

Thus countries that were ill suited for such a currency union were persuaded to abandon their own currency and adopt the Euro for entirely political reasons that were often in opposition to that country's own interests.

We need a Europe of proud independent nations working together in friendship and collaboration, not this attempt to subsume national identity into some pan European identity at all costs.

The EU is yesterday's solution to yesterday's problems.

As for us in the UK... When the ship is sinking it's best to head for the life raft, and the EU ship is now holed below the water line.

Lewian wrote: ... As much as I'm pro EU, I think the introduction of the Euro was a big, big mistake; look how the inability to control a country's own currency pitted the Greeks against the Germans and the Germans against the Greeks and how populists all over Europe (now Italy) use the dependency that is created by a joint currency with still coexisting local economic, financial and fiscal policies for their anti-EU propaganda.  ...

Chaser wrote:  ... The fact is that this is a problem across the western world at the moment.  It certainly is part of the reason for the Brexit vote in the UK, and Europe cannot be too smug either, as populism is rife across Europe at the moment. ...

Chaser wrote: Globalisation is good for the metropolitan elites and the super rich, but it does very little for post industrial communities, who see their factories disappear to low cost countries abroad and their jobs get replaced by cheap foreign labour.  While money poured into London, the left behind communities in the north of England and the midlands saw their communities left to rot.  They voted for change and change was Brexit.

I want to respond specifically about Midlands. As I mentioned earlier, the company I work for is the holding company of Jaguar Land Rover. They have factories in Midlands from what I know. Their business in Europe is going to be badly affected in the event of a hard Brexit. I love the look of a Jaguar but good luck convincing European customers that it's still worth the money after a high customs duty cost is added to the sticker price vis a vis Audi or BMW.

You say the Midlands are rotting and as an outsider I have to believe you. However, is the cause globalisation or is it the neo liberal policies followed by the Tories and New Labour? There was perhaps no way other than a mad disruption like Brexit for the working class to send its message. But the question is are British politicians, except those who seek to manipulate such sentiments to gain a votebank, really listening? Further, in the short run, reversing globalisation may likely prove detrimental to Midlands. I am sure jobs at a luxury car marker factory pay more than agricultural jobs and the like.

Edited by rogerthat - February 05 2019 at 01:30

Edited by Lewian - February 04 2019 at 10:11