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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65268
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 00:59 |
^ well-said, both of you
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 00:41 |
Textbook wrote:
Also, with a teenager today, I would stay well away from Genesis as a gateway band- young people can find them square. Teenagers probably want something hookier and heavier to begin with. Porcupine Tree and Dream Theater, well not my favourite bands, do work as a foot in the door. Going straight for Genesis and Yes, who can sound a bit twee and fey to modern ears, is probably not the wisest move. |
I think this about hits the nail on the head. You have to familiarize the listener with prog's approach to structure and this cannot be done with something like Genesis which even some prog fans find hard to take seriously simply because they sound twee and fey. There's nothing intellectual or emotional about this, just the simple fact that you wouldn't be prepared for stuff like Genesis by listening to what comes on the radio because they don't approach non-classical/jazz music that way anymore. Conditioning is a very very important factor that affects the listening experience. I did not grow up on 80s pop/rock hits and I would have found it harder to warm up to prog than I actually did because I know friends who grew up on that and can't stand prog.
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b4usleep
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 21 2009
Location: Istanbul
Status: Offline
Points: 620
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 00:30 |
Well, not a teenager but my daughter likes "Musical Box" very much (she is 7)
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Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout.
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Jake Kobrin
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 20 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1303
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 23:26 |
I've loved Genesis since the age of 14.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 22:55 |
ACR: I think your apprehension about "harmful lyrics" is always going to create a negative space between you and music. Fergie's London Bridge is not dangerous or disturbing. It is stupid. It's certainly nothing to be afraid of though. I think misunderstanding youth culture over such anxieties is always going to make it hard for you get a balanced picture of what young people actually listen to. And btw, it is nonsense that lyrics being sexual is a new thing. Pop music lyrics have ALWAYS been sexual. Nowadays they're just more honest about it. Or is Tutti Frutti about playing canasta or something.
Anyway, I can say that my 2 and a half year old likes Kaipa's new album, In The Wake Of Evolution and also Ommadawn. She always goes nuts at that flute part early on in Ommadawn. But that's a 2 and a half year old, I can imagine a teen finding them a bit "lame" or even "gay". I would suggest perhaps Coheed And Cambria for teenaged ladies. Remember I'm saying use Coheed And Cambria as a gateway drug to other prog, I'm not suggesting they're the pinnacle of progressive music. Move to proggier stuff later.
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 20:45 |
I don't think age on it's own has anything to do with taste; just the sort of things we have been exposed to.
This is also extremely broad, and sorta assumes that all teenagers think Miley Cyrus and Billy Talent are fantastic.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Online
Points: 17531
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:47 |
Hi,
I don't think that one thing has anything to do with the other.
It all has to do with your respect and love for music and how you present it to the kids. We had a house with over 3k LP's of classical music and dad loved playing things loud. And after 10 years you get to "know" something about Stravinsky, Debussy, Mozart, Beethoven. And then I heard Ray Charles, Gilbert Becaud, and lots of Italian Opera ... and I'm sorry ... more than half of the progressive music listed is not progressive at all! Not even close! It's just copycat music!
If there is a serious issue today, it is because a sizeable percentage of folks that post here have not had enough music learning in their minds, thus making it very difficult for the kids to find out that there is something else out there ... all they know is the same stuff that their friends have in school ... and your wife tells you to turn it down when you play your stuff! (... so to speak ... good example!)
In the end, it depends on the house, and your appreciation for the arts, the music and film, and theater ... and I would say that too many folks don't!
So if a teenage can not enjoy Genesis, I doubt they are going to enjoy Puccini, or Verdi, or Vangelis or anything else ... whose fault is that?
Edited by moshkito - June 08 2010 at 19:49
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:05 |
AmericanProgster wrote:
Might as well get my two cents in...
I was 12 when I first got into prog (I'm 19 now), and trust me I didn't just sit on the fringes of prog. The first three bands that put me under the prog spell were: Gentle Giant (I must stress this group above all), King Crimson, and Kansas. But prog groups that are easier to digest also played a big role in my prog world. These groups included: Angel (yes, they were prog!), Sparks, and Deep Purple (particulary those first three albums).
So with that said, I don't think you necessarily have to start with more accessible prog groups. Start with the more complex (and lets face it, even weirder) prog groups. Then work your way out until you get to the fringe of what makes a prog group.
And hopefully your daughter will, at the very least, appreciate the amazing world of PROG ROCK! (Whoo!)
Well, thanks for listening!
-AP |
I can see your point and complex prog like Giant and Crimson are not so bad for younger listeners but of course I am just hoping she doesnt get into Jonas Bros and Hannah too much. If she gets into Giant I will be wrapped of course, ANY prog willbe a good thing, but it is one stone at a time we are turning here, and with theoverwhelming response to my humble thread , which i thought would get about 3 comments and be ended by the way , I am now educated - teens do INDEED listen to early prog such as Genesis and I think thats a fantastic thing. I am into a lot of weirder prog but dont expect my teens to get into that nor would I particularly want that. i think what attracts me to prog is the weirdness, that it is different, as soon as I heard Maudlinof te Well's Part the Second, I was amazed, or Astra's The Weirding, or Kraftwerk asa teen I knew I would love anti-radio music more than anything.
The radio is boring.
I will state that as a fact yet teens will be seduced by its spell. The lyrics too are disturbing when you hear things like London Bridge by Fergie - "And I’m like get up out my face, (oh s***) 'fore I turn around and spray your ass with mace. (oh s***) My lips make you wanna have a taste. (oh s***) You got that? How come everytime you come around, My London, London bridge, wanna go down like, London, London, London, wanna go down like, London London London Bridge" I would hate my daughter to be singing this.
or even Britney with her 'Touch Me' style lyrics, or Beyonce, or ...... you get my point - its all sexualised and confusing for the mind as they are all about being seduced or touched and the world is not like that at all yet artists make it appear that way and i is accepted.
I know when i was young the radio was not so blatant and more subtle, in the 70s they wouldnt be allowed to air such lyrics oreven the 80s. It gt worse through the 90s till youhear expletives on the radio and sexualised lyrics. Prog rarely disturbs me in that sense, Genesis mostly sing about love or fun things. Ocassionally as in 'Lamb Lies Down' Gabriel has a 'Touch Me' lyric but it is the exception to the rule, and in context of the story of Rael.
Rant over
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 18:03 |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
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LOL
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CyberDiablo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 15:37 |
Textbook wrote:
I'm three and a half years old and my favourite band is Opeth. |
Now that makes sense
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Music is some kind of art.
-- Anonymous
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 15:30 |
I'm three and a half years old and my favourite band is Opeth.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 15:23 |
The good thing with kids is you can still expose them to prog and hope they will like it.
We don't have kids, my girlfriend is 43 (me 44) and any hope is lost, she hates prog as much as I hate Barry White...
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 15:17 |
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AmericanProgster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 28 2008
Location: Manassas, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 228
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 14:22 |
Might as well get my two cents in...
I was 12 when I first got into prog (I'm 19 now), and trust me I didn't just sit on the fringes of prog. The first three bands that put me under the prog spell were: Gentle Giant (I must stress this group above all), King Crimson, and Kansas. But prog groups that are easier to digest also played a big role in my prog world. These groups included: Angel (yes, they were prog!), Sparks, and Deep Purple (particulary those first three albums).
So with that said, I don't think you necessarily have to start with more accessible prog groups. Start with the more complex (and lets face it, even weirder) prog groups. Then work your way out until you get to the fringe of what makes a prog group.
And hopefully your daughter will, at the very least, appreciate the amazing world of PROG ROCK! (Whoo!)
Well, thanks for listening!
-AP
Edited by AmericanProgster - June 08 2010 at 14:24
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CyberDiablo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:21 |
I'm just 15 but I really love Supper's Ready. (But I still prefer Yes anyway.)
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CinemaZebra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2010
Location: Ancient Rome
Status: Offline
Points: 6795
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 12:54 |
I'm 14 and I love all Gabriel-era Genesis (with the exception of SEBTP), especially The Lamb. So yes.
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Mr. Maestro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 05 2010
Location: Knowhere, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 918
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 12:26 |
I'm just 17, and I listen to the entirety of "Supper's Ready" every other day!
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"I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...."
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 11:19 |
One sec, let me check my age...
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Oh yes! 17! And I like early Genesis.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 08:46 |
yanch wrote:
I think a small handful of teens these days may be able to enjoy early Genesis, but not lots. My 2 sons-21 and 17-have heard lots of Genesis, and prog in general, for years, but you'd never get them to ask me to play any Genesis. As mentioned, they prefer heavier music. They prefer Rush, Tool, Liquid Tension Experiment, Dream Theater, etc. Interestingly enough, they do like some Pink Floyd-Wish You Were Here and Animals. |
They sound more up to date for sure, those bands, but my daughter hates heavy rock, she calls it Daddy's music.
But she enjoyed Genesis DVDs today and I am sitting here now with the songs stuck in my head "Jesus he knows me and he knows my life I been talking to Jesus all my life..." I cant get that out of my head, plus the riff to 'Turn it on again' I love that time sig change. Anyway the songs were cool enough to gain her interest. It could be worse. I could be sitting here with Hannah Montanah in my brain - agh!
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Ancient
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 08:03 |
14 years is good age for starting to listen to prog. The more melodic kind perhaps ... But it is not very fashionable, I'm afraid. If your daughter is not one who has to do like 'all the others' I can't see why she wouldn't like it. Guess it also takes a bit of a musical mind, a special interest in music. Prog is not background music. I tried to introduce prog to my sons, but hip hop was their thing. They called prog medieval rock.
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... and the flowering creativity of life wove it's www
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