Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - QM: Does Time exist?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

QM: Does Time exist?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Valdez View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 17:56
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I read Barbour's book back when it came out. I remember it being a rather dry, difficult read. If I'm remembering it correctly, much of it had to do with Planck length (or maybe Planck time?) and the "nows" were separated by this. It's an interesting idea, but I sometimes wonder if this is just mathematics trying to find a different reality that may not actually be there. I never read Smolin's book.

Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

<span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">If consciousness (as we reckon it) didn't exist, then time wouldn't either.
</span>

That's a curious idea worthy of thinking about. It sort of reminds me a bit of Donald Hoffman's studies on this in which he considers consciousness as something fundamental in the universe and the physical world emerges from that. It's kind of hard to wrap my brain around that, but curious nonetheless.



<p ="Msonormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:107%">Science
boils down everything to just 2 components, energy and consciousness.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>All matter is energy fluctuations. Matter is
not solid or motionless. If matter is comprised of energy, then can energy be
comprised of consciousness? <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If so, the
physical world emerges from it, along with the universe and anything in
creation.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Tis all a dream..<o:p></o:p></span>




Isn’t Hoffman the guy who says (in essence) that we are in a construct similar to a video game, limited by a VU headset (our brains eyes and senses) that isn’t capable of giving us the entire view of our surroundings? That our perception is limited and basically created by our collective consciousness? Maybe it is a dream like Einstein said “a very persistent dream” lol
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

Back to Top
CosmicVibration View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1395
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 14:39
that is my understanding, all that is, Is God.  Existence itself, pure and simple, there is nothing else.  Non-existence, by definition, does not exist.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 14:32
^ Or the universe & natural world is God. In other words there is no God.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
CosmicVibration View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1395
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 14:30
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Which implies there is no 'God'.

If there is only consciousness, and only 1 consciousness, then God must have a  massive delusional multiple personality symptom. Confused


Edited by CosmicVibration - November 14 2024 at 14:31
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 14:07
^ Which implies there is no 'God'.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
CosmicVibration View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1395
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 14:00
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I read Barbour's book back when it came out. I remember it being a rather dry, difficult read. If I'm remembering it correctly, much of it had to do with Planck length (or maybe Planck time?) and the "nows" were separated by this. It's an interesting idea, but I sometimes wonder if this is just mathematics trying to find a different reality that may not actually be there. I never read Smolin's book.

Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

If consciousness (as we reckon it) didn't exist, then time wouldn't either.

That's a curious idea worthy of thinking about. It sort of reminds me a bit of Donald Hoffman's studies on this in which he considers consciousness as something fundamental in the universe and the physical world emerges from that. It's kind of hard to wrap my brain around that, but curious nonetheless.


Science boils down everything to just 2 components, energy and consciousness.  All matter is energy fluctuations. Matter is not solid or motionless. If matter is comprised of energy, then can energy be comprised of consciousness?  If so, the physical world emerges from it, along with the universe and anything in creation.  Tis all a dream..


Back to Top
CosmicVibration View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1395
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 13:58

I have not read either of the 2 books, but they seem fascinating.  Both authors could be right in their own way.

 

Space and time are inseparable. The faster you travel through space, the slower you travel through time. This has been experimented with and demonstrated many times over.  Theoretically, if you can travel at the speed of light, time would essentially stop.  Does this mean that time does not really exist?

 

I think that it exists experientially but not in “reality”.  Similar to matter not being real, only existing experientially.  

 

“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”  - Alber Einstein

Back to Top
Valdez View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 06:50
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

...then watch them in rapid sequence.

"Rapid sequence" is a time-dependent operation. You're using something that depends on time to define time.


Yep!! Hard to deny that!
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

Back to Top
wiz_d_kidd View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 13 2018
Location: EllicottCityMD
Status: Offline
Points: 1423
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 06:39
...then watch them in rapid sequence.

"Rapid sequence" is a time-dependent operation. You're using something that depends on time to define time.

Edited by wiz_d_kidd - November 14 2024 at 06:40
“I don’t like country music, but I don’t mean to denigrate those who do. And for those who like country music, denigrate means to ‘put down.'” – Bob Newhart
Back to Top
progaardvark View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 50894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 05:21
I read Barbour's book back when it came out. I remember it being a rather dry, difficult read. If I'm remembering it correctly, much of it had to do with Planck length (or maybe Planck time?) and the "nows" were separated by this. It's an interesting idea, but I sometimes wonder if this is just mathematics trying to find a different reality that may not actually be there. I never read Smolin's book.

Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

If consciousness (as we reckon it) didn't exist, then time wouldn't either.

That's a curious idea worthy of thinking about. It sort of reminds me a bit of Donald Hoffman's studies on this in which he considers consciousness as something fundamental in the universe and the physical world emerges from that. It's kind of hard to wrap my brain around that, but curious nonetheless.


----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5346
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2024 at 01:27
I don't and never will smoke weed for two reasons.

1. It's strictly banned in my country.
2. I'm poor and have a tendency for addictions. Weed would drain all my money in no time. I mean, it's not dirt cheap.

Edited by Hrychu - November 14 2024 at 01:28
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
Valdez View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 22:50
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

(Takes long hit off bong… cough cough)


Nice.   I smoked for years but had to stop due to a condition that causes terrible stomach pain & nausea called Cannabis Hyperemises.   I occasionally miss it but the cravings pass.   Now I just drink Scotch.



I quit because it caused me to overthink “everything”. Plus I found myself raising 2 beautiful daughters and they became priority. Being sober made me a better dad I think. They are in their late 20s now and doing fine. I have a beer or two every now and then . I had some problems with alcohol when my first wife passed. So I keep it to 2 drinks. But this coffee habit… dang!!
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 21:52
Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

(Takes long hit off bong… cough cough)


Nice.   I smoked for years but had to stop due to a condition that causes terrible stomach pain & nausea called Cannabis Hyperemises.   I occasionally miss it but the cravings pass.   Now I just drink Scotch.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Valdez View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 20:02
I’m not really smoking weed at my age. Just kidding.   funny because I’m re-watching fringe right now and timelines are all messed up.

Edited by Valdez - November 13 2024 at 20:08
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

Back to Top
Valdez View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 19:57
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

 
The conclusion is that Everything may exist simultaneously.  


People seem to think that it's crystal clear what it means to "exist". I don't think that at all.

Also, I wonder whether "simultaneous" itself is a notion that relies on a concept of time?


I agree. The notion of simultaneousness would rely and depend on measurable time. Existence itself is a given even if we don’t fully understand the how and why.
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

Back to Top
Valdez View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 19:13
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Electricity is one of the most underappreciated energies, and may be responsible for much more than we think.


Yes… water as well. All life is born of it. Our atmosphere is water, we die without water, and we are basically water. It took billions of years for water to self actualize. Water is smart.!   Water is the closest thing to a God we have that we can actually touch.

(Takes long hit off bong… cough cough)

Edited by Valdez - November 13 2024 at 19:24
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

Back to Top
Starshiper View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2024
Location: Englantic
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Starshiper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 18:58
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Time must exist, otherwise how would geologists have been able to dig up the fossilised remains of all these creatures that existed on Earth countless millions of years ago?
Geologists use various techniques to date rocks and fossils (such as radiometric dating) and analyse them within their current context. This methodology does not require belief in the existence of time as an entity featuring past, present, and future, but rather focuses on what can be observed 'now.' Because those remains are part of our observable reality. Geologists can dig up fossilised remains because these fossils exist as tangible objects in the present moment. I mean, what we call 'time' is actually countless 'nows.'
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 18:55
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Time must exist, otherwise how would geologists have been able to dig up the fossilised remains of all these creatures that existed on Earth countless millions of years ago? The Earth is estimated to be about four and a half billion years old, yet to the average human being 100 years probably seems like an eternity - even though in reality it's just a tiny drop in the ocean - and to a mayfly, a single day probably seems like one too. I would imagine that all creatures are 'programmed' to perceive time differently, depending on how long their average lifespan is, but what 'force' is actually behind all this, I have absolutely no idea.


Time perception as it's related to time itself does seem based on what one is doing or thinking, which is itself indicative of how time functions.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
yam yam View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover Team

Joined: June 16 2011
Location: Kerberos
Status: Offline
Points: 6338
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 18:54
Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

I wrote it all down in great detail once when I was high on pot about 40 years agoBig smile
Lol! I've never tried the stuff myself as a lifelong non-smoker, but I imagine the whole universe - never mind just time - takes on a whole new perspective when you're three sheets to the wind on the green goddess!
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2024 at 18:50
^ Electricity is one of the most underappreciated energies, and may be responsible for much more than we think.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.152 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.