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andu 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
 Posted: October 26 2006 at 06:25 |
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@eetu
Actually Salo is Pasolini's last film and it wasn't proper for me to start watching Pasolini with Salo, but I didn't know this. In the meantime, I read a brilliant essay by Pasolini on the art of cinematography and I heard people discussing his work (Il Decameron, Medea, Teorema, etc.) so I'm eager to start again. ah, there was one more thing - after the shock with Salo, I gave him another chance but it was again a wrong pick - "The Gospel According to Matthew", that I strongly disliked because the orthodox visual depiction of the holy story is so different to the catholic one.
Yeah that is a great theme, I agree. A connected theme is that from "Eternal sunshine...", that lets you understand that regardless of the way you have love, love is love and you must cherrish it. That's why I liked it so much and came in my favourites list.
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: August 30 2006 Location: LA, CA Status: Offline Points: 7113 |
Posted: October 26 2006 at 02:27 |
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American Ninja, because it contains the word "Ninja." Sadly, I've only seen American Ninja 3... |
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: October 26 2006 at 02:19 |
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Damn, I had to write this twice as I managed to lost my first reply.
I understand. This reaction was for me a bit thought provoking. Why is watching people forced to eat sh*t more disgusting that watching them being killed? Though first mentioned is humiliation and torture, it shouldn’t still be as bad as murder. Maybe killings have been normalized by the violent media or something?
have no comment on Solaris and Stalker, is that because you agreed on them being "major masterpieces"? also i am aware of The Steamroller and the Violin but i guess it wasn't re-released on disc. there is one thing left - "The Killers", a black/white short direct by the then students a.tarkovsky and al.gordon, writen on the basis of a hemingway short story; very nice. it was 1955, as i recall. Yes, the sci-fi films are totally wonderful! My favorites along with “The Mirror”. About the “Steamroller”, it has been moving in “unofficial markets”. Thanks for the info about the 1955 movie!
This is a great theme. I have personally contemplated this kind of subjects, as the surrounding world seems evil and violent from it’s basic essence. A conquest of overcoming this realization is very important, as otherwise it easy to allow these evil things to consume you and you lose the quality of your life.
are you actually sure those places like the middle east really belong to our world? in a sense, i feel they belong to the mediaeval age. I see the whole globe as one world. The division of it by cultural, religious and national borders is only a characteristic of our own species, and it’s own loss I think. The military forces of western Christian industrial countries are heavily committed to the events in Middle-East, and thus our worlds collide. We only get the war at our doors very seldom, when some terrorists manage to strike at us. |
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Arrrghus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5296 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 21:33 |
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Where is Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 21:32 |
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You know? I'm 15 minutes ahead of my time... I had to vote for Lost Highway, but... ¡¡¡NO FELLINI ON THE LIST!!! 
Blasphemy, Rhinoplasty!!! |
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 09:04 |
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i stopped watchig Salo at the exact point you mentioned but i never wanted to resume really nice comment on Mirror there, eetu. i was aware of those aspects as i knew it was a very autobiographical film, and that also added an extra filter to make it more beautiful to me. you have no comment on Solaris and Stalker, is that because you agreed on them being "major masterpieces"? also i am aware of The Steamroller and the Violin but i guess it wasn't re-released on disc. there is one thing left - "The Killers", a black/white short direct by the then students a.tarkovsky and al.gordon, writen on the basis of a hemingway short story; very nice. it was 1955, as i recall.
i see now what you mean about violence and i agree, but sadism is a totally different thing, there is no sadism in there. still i must admit there is a strong difference between that violence and hollywood violence. for example, both Rublyov and Kingdom of Heavens are good depictions of the middle age, but somehow in the latter violence is different, acceptable. i'd say hollywood is only interested in violence for the story and does not care about accuracy, while while Rublyov is concerned in showing it to have better definition of the entire spectrum of human nature. and he needed to be pretty accurate to trouble you, to make you aware of it.
i'd say that the eye of the beholder (the director together with the viewer) is clearly motivated by christian humanism and is "lyrical" in it's approach, there, in Rublyov. i think that the overall meaning is this: first, the painter monk is troubled and can't paint any more beautiful icons for God because the world He created is too violent, and he can't merge them (beauty and violence-envy-hedonism) into one unitary vision. at last, he understand that life is life, with all that, and one is ment to prove himself being worthy of redemption IN THIS ACTUAL world.
[one of the oldest items in the romanian folklore culture is the story of "Manole, the mason". it's an epic poem about the mason/architect of Negru Voda (King Black) - the legendary founder of mediaeval Wallachia, the 1973 "Negru Voda" epic by Phoenix is actually about him doing that. Negru Voda takes Manole and his team to build him the most beautifull cathedral ever. something very strange happens: everything built in daylight get wrecked at night. the king gets unpatient. then, they somehow find out that they need a sacrifice to build: the first wife or sister to come in the morning to bring food from the village must be build in the walls; they all accept thinking "it's not going to be me". in the morning, Manole sees his wife Ana (was she pregnant? i can't recall). he prays for heavy weather, anything that could stop her; but nothing can. he has to accept fatality and builds the wall around her, while hearing her questioning with fright and love at the same time. then, they manage to build the great church. satisfied, the king says he has the greatest church, but Manole uncautious replies that he can always outdo himself. the king gets angry and tears down to the ground the scaffoldings while the team is doing some final job on the roof. he want his church to remain the greatest! feeling his destiny is somehow "done", Manole crafts a pair of wooden wings and jumps. he falls straight down and in the place of his dying impact, a fountain emerges. end. see the recurrent pattern?]
one more thing - are you actually sure those places like the middle east really belong to our world? in a sense, i feel they belong to the mediaeval age.
ah, not to forget - i strongly recomend you Oldboy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/).
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 08:03 |
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In addition of these six, there's also a film called "The Steamroller and the Violin" by him, which he did as a student work. I have this on a disc, but I haven't checked out it yet. (too much to do, too little time) I haven't seen "The Sacrifice" yet, but I admit that the plot sounds a bit silly. I have "Ivan's Childhood" as a tape, but I haven't watched that either yet... (
 !) I liked "The Mirror" most, maybe as I'm interested of the logic of the dreams and subconsciousness, this film scanning these areas with aestethics matching my tastes 100%. Or maybe it would be better to say that this film created new standards for me in this area, revealing something I could not have believed existed. "Nostalghia" was interesting, but not as great as the Sci-Fi films then are. The scripts are good, and the films hold very strong feeling, something that is never present in the castrated Hollywood films (imo).
Well, I would call the cutting of the eyes and the several killing sequences sadistic violence, though it would be realistic part of the age's frame of reference. That stuff is a part of our world, and not only "harsch life in the medieval age", it is present in our days too f.ex. in the Middle-East. I'm not criticising of showing it how it is, I just commented that I'm not perhaps strong enough to watch it voluntarily. (see my comment on the previous post about showing violence)
I bought "Salo" on DVD from discount, and it surely is much more violent, I had to stop during the "circle of sh*t" sequence, but I watched it later to end. Aestethically beautiful film, but not very pleasant story to watch.
Yes!  Edited by Eetu Pellonpää - October 25 2006 at 08:04 |
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:52 |
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another must-see for me, i know that!
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:38 |
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i've seen all tarkovsky's films, of which i find Stalker and Solaris major masterpieces, The Mirror and Ivan's Childhood halfmasterpieces, Nostalghia a good film but mannerist in style, and The Sacrifice too boring, even over my limits. what "sadistic violence" in Rublyov are you talking about? try Salo or Oldboy for movies on violence and sadism. if you're talking about the harsch life in the mediaeval age, you should call tarkovsky's approach realism, not violence.
the reason for me to like Rublyov that much is that i am really into christianism and the theology of the icon. i am christian-orthodox, this might explain you more. Edited by andu - October 25 2006 at 07:41 |
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:18 |
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Have you seen other films by Tarkovsky? Why did you like "Anderi Rublev" best? I'm not saying it's not good, but it's very hard for me to watch due it's sadistic violence. (!) I'm still quite sure that this is how violence should be shown, and not in the cool Hollywood way. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:03 |
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Yikes Andu, I forgot Brazil, going to buy the DVD today, really a masterpiece, Terry Gilliams finest Job.
Also one great movie by Lina Wertmuller called Pasqualino Siete Bekkezas /Believe it was called Seven Beauties in English) and a comedy by Pedro Almodovar "Mujeres al Borde de un Ataque de Nervios".
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 25 2006 at 07:04 |
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 05:05 |
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great list ivan, we have so many in common.
here comes my FAVOURITE films list
first, Gilliam's BRAZIL takes the Grand Prize. it's the film of my heart.
 and recently Gondry's ETERNAL SUNSHINE... also got it, ex aequo.1. Tarkovsky's RUBLYOV
2. Fellini's SATYRICON
3. Bergman's SEVENTH SEAL
4. Kurosawa's SEVEN SAMURAI
5. Lucian Pintilie's TERMINUS PARADIS
6. Almodovar's TODO SOBRE MI MADRE
7. Scott's BLADE RUNNER
8. Sofia Coppola's LOST IN TRANSLATION
9. Kubrick's BARRY LYNDON
10. Coppola's GODFATHER I
also pending just outside are Hitchcock's VERTIGO, Visconti's LEOPARD, Scorsese's TAXI DRIVER, von Trier's ELEMENT OF CRIME, Wong Kar Wai's IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, Ki-duk Kim's SPRING, SUMMER, FALL, WINTER... AND SPRING, Jeunet's DELICATESSEN... also some of the authors i haven't yet exhausted, so the list may keep changing, as i haven't seen Bergman's Fanny & Alexander or Almodovar's Carne Tremula, just to name some, yet. Edited by andu - October 25 2006 at 05:06 |
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Faaip_De_Oiad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 529 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 04:20 |
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Cannibal Holocaust !!
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Harkmark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 538 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 03:34 |
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Stalker!!!
Other favorites: Solaris 2001 - a space oddysey A clockwork orange Apocalypse now Blue Velvet Wild at heart Lost highway Happiness (T. Solondz) The seventh seal (Ingmar Bergman) Idiotene, Festen, Breaking the waves (Lars von Trier) Crash (Cronenberg) Pulp Fiction De dødes tjern (Kåre Bergstrøm, 1958) (Probably translated as "Death in the blue lake") etc... |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 02:40 |
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Hey HT, when Asyte2c00 was born in 1988, when he learned to talk there was no USSR, the cold war is probably an urban legend to him, the Praga Spring a dream and the Atomic paranoia is something his grandfather told him.
How can you expect him to understand the intelligent and constant flow of sarcasm and insanity that Kubrik gave us in Dr Strangelove if he never feared a total war?.
Kubrik didn't respected anybody, the weak Democrat pacifist President (Peter Sellers) the Drunk Prime Minister of USSR, the ignorant Militar (George C Scott), the fanatic pilot, the calmed British officer everybody was a blank for him, the guy was an iconoclast.
The same happened in Clockwork Orange, the young criminal, the police, the politicians, nobody had inmunity for Stanley.
Kubrik was a genius, but you need to have lived at least part of this era to be able to understand it. It's hard to understand from today's perspective that in those days, Communits, Democrats or Republicans were all lunatics with enough power to destroy earth 10 times, so all were part of the same insanity, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon were all close to do it, but today it's almost inpossible to understand that for us all were exactly the same risk.
Even the smallest kid knew that nobody would win a nuclear war, but still Democtrats, Republicans and Communists kept getting more weapons....this was insane so Kubrik laughed of this insanity.
Probably people today will find Mr Bean or Jim Carey funnier than great comedians as Peter Sellers or David Niven, actors as Kevin Costner or Mel Gibson much better than Peter O'Toole or Orson Welles but times change and we must accept this.
Now my favorite movies:
This list changes constantly because Citizen Kane, Cassablanca, The Shinning, Silrence of the Lambs, etc have sometimes a place in my top 10 depending in my mood. Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 25 2006 at 02:50 |
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 13:41 |
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Excuse me, I can appreciate an opposing opinion, but that is pretty harsh. No purpose behind the film? How about the idiocy of the arms race? It wasn't aimed at a particular party. Note that he makes fun of every political viewpoint. You can say you don't like his films, but a moron? Wow, I won't even try to explain why that is so very wrong. I'm pretty sure these statements won't be given any careful consideration anyway. |
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2006 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 1361 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 11:14 |
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1 vote for Deathrace 2000. The movie where you score points by running over pedestrians on a cross country race. Cinema at its finest. Sly Stallone in his finest role!
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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Asyte2c00
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2099 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:24 |
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lol. I tried to qualify myself on this one Tony
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:17 |
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"vapid" = word of the week
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Asyte2c00
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2099 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:08 |
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Words are paltry to describe the vapidness of Kubrick's films.
The are simply contrived and dated. I wated Dr. Stragelove and it is the worst black comedy I have ever seen. There is no purpose behind the film.
Moreover, why did Kubrick mock the arms race during the 60s. Kennedy and LBJ were both Democrats so was Kubrick. At least, Roger Moore has the sanity and level-mindedness to denigrate his opposing party. Kubrick was a moron.
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andu wrote:
