Best film ever!
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Topics not related to music
Forum Name: General Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics not related to music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12747
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 07:11 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Best film ever!
Posted By: Fantômas
Subject: Best film ever!
Date Posted: October 07 2005 at 21:02
------------- And above all, is punk
|
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 02:54
My favourite was not listed:
My Sassy Girl
|
Posted By: Protagonist
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 04:39
Is that a joke? There's so many better films!
For example:
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Hair
Bless the Beasts and Children
The White Sun of the Desert (Russian)
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 06:28
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 06:29
lame one
|
Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 06:30
for splatter films i choose BRAINDEAD
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Fjuffe/?chartstyle=sideRed - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif -
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 06:36
maidenrulez wrote:
for splatter films i choose BRAINDEAD |
and
'BAD TEST'
|
Posted By: Fantômas
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 10:31
f**k, I forgot Bad Taste and GoodFellas. No, it ain't a joke, it's a very serious poll.
------------- And above all, is punk
|
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 11:36
Citizen Caine,Orson Welles was way ahead of his time.
-------------
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 11:49
Have a look at this list:
http://www.imdb.com/chart/top - http://www.imdb.com/chart/top
My personal favorite movie is Fight Club.
BTW: My favorite splatter movie is "Bad Taste" ... it deserves a honorable note here, as many films in this poll are horror movies.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 12:03
Posted By: Jeremy Bender
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 12:16
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
|
Posted By: daghrastubfari
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 12:36
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
|
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 17:54
Life of Brian: superb parody on religion. Best moment: "You are all individuals", then "Yes, WE are all individuals.....!".
|
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 18:49
1. Gangs of New York 2. Braveheart 3. Kill Bill Vol. 1 and 2 (2 is better, though) 4. Monty Python and the Holy Grail 5. Gladiator
i like historical epics!
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
|
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 08 2005 at 18:50
btw: hot shots is f*cking hilarious!!!
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
|
Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: October 09 2005 at 08:07
Army Of Darkness (from that list).
|
Posted By: Protagonist
Date Posted: October 09 2005 at 11:08
Fantomas, you can check for the "Birds" - a classical movie from Alfred
Hichcock (I'm not sure I wrote the family name in the right way,
sorry, it's my bad English).
It's realy shaking up!
|
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 09 2005 at 11:59
The Godfather I & II..
...then, Woody Allen's 'Manhattan'...
though Citizen Kane is also an undeniable masterpiece, so I have gone for that, in this otherwise sorry excuse for a poll...
------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 09 2005 at 12:06
I'm more of a " 2001 A Space Odyssey " kind of man, myself. That's what I call a progressive rock lover's movie. Highly orriginal plot, fine acting, ahead of it's time, special effects are great, and best of all is a beautiful musical score that is still remembered.
|
Posted By: ProgConro
Date Posted: October 09 2005 at 12:07
Yeah, ummmmm
It's spelled Citizen Kane.
Orson Wells is brilliant.
Its funny that I see Plan 9 from the Outer space up there because I just finished watching Ed Wood, another great movie.
------------- Come to us, Lazarus, it's time for you to go
|
Posted By: Fantômas
Date Posted: October 09 2005 at 13:42
Protagonist wrote:
Fantomas, you can check for the "Birds" - a classical movie from Alfred
Hichcock (I'm not sure I wrote the family name in the right way,
sorry, it's my bad English).
It's realy shaking up!
|
Yeah, I watched this film. Pretty good...
------------- And above all, is punk
|
Posted By: pepolo
Date Posted: October 09 2005 at 14:16
A clockwork orange or star wars
|
Posted By: daz2112
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 12:03
Evil Dead. When i 1st watched it 20 odd years ago i shat myself
------------- In the constellation of cygnus,There lurks a mysterious force...The black hole
|
Posted By: Xymphony
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 14:56
In this list, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (original 1'st)
|
Posted By: tardis
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 15:10
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 18:05
Can I say that 2001 is missing?
Still my vote goes to Mulollhand Drive!!! Lynch is a real genius!!!!!!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
|
Posted By: Thufir Hawat
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 19:28
None of those, you are missing the classics
A fistful of Dollars, The Godfather and so on,
But my alltime favorite movie is Star Wars Ep
IV.
------------- "I can't see through my eye lids"
|
Posted By: ColonelClaypool
Date Posted: January 22 2006 at 19:57
From the list, Army of Darkness.
The best movie ever made though is "The Deer Hunter" imo, with "Seven Samurai" a close runner-up.
------------- With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince.
With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with.
|
Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: January 23 2006 at 00:21
Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: January 23 2006 at 08:33
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: January 24 2006 at 23:20
Not particularly violent, but keeps leftovers and severed limbs fresh like nobody's business....
------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
|
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: January 27 2006 at 06:25
Well of the above its got to be Citzen Kane (not Cane!). Mullholland Drive is good too.
|
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 17:41
Dr. Strangelove - Kubrick
= dead pig
= dead clown
|
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 17:43
Impossible to determine. Too many genres, too many good films. I think this year has been one of the best for great movies in a decade at least.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
|
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 17:49
inpraiseoffolly wrote:
Dr. Strangelove - Kubrick |
You beat me to it. That is my all time favorite.
Some other glaring omissions;
Annie Hall Casablanca Ferris Beuhler's Day Off Breaking Away Rain Man The Day the Earth Stood Still Raiders of the Lost Ark Star Wars (the first one) Some Like it Hot
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
|
Posted By: tardis
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 17:49
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 17:57
my favourite film from this list is "citizen kane"; i also appreciate lynch's work, and that's quite it; this list has almost nothing to do with a real "best ever films" list. and more, this "what's the best" is pointless, especially in the art of film. the best film is the one you're getting ready to see. and the best idea was that of the editors' who put out the "1001 film to see in a lifetime dictionary"
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:04
Forest Gump
closely followed by Chocolat
|
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:06
My all time favourite is Godfather.
Pulp Fiction
Lock, stock and two smoking barrels
Snatch
True Romance
Reservoir Dogs
Jackie Brown
are amongst my favourites
but from this list it's gotta be Citizen Kane or Mullholand Drive
It's all apart Masterpieces by Andrey Tarkovskiy.
------------- carefulwiththataxe
|
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:08
Words are paltry to describe the vapidness of Kubrick's films.
The are simply contrived and dated. I wated Dr. Stragelove and it is the worst black comedy I have ever seen. There is no purpose behind the film.
Moreover, why did Kubrick mock the arms race during the 60s. Kennedy and LBJ were both Democrats so was Kubrick. At least, Roger Moore has the sanity and level-mindedness to denigrate his opposing party. Kubrick was a moron.
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:17
"vapid" = word of the week
|
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:24
Tony R wrote:
"vapid" = word of the week
|
|
Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 11:14
1 vote for Deathrace 2000. The movie where you score points by running over pedestrians on a cross country race. Cinema at its finest. Sly Stallone in his finest role!
------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
|
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 13:41
Asyte2c00 wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
inpraiseoffolly wrote:
Dr. Strangelove - Kubrick | You beat me to it. That is my all time favorite. [IMG]alt=Clap src="smileys/smiley32.gif" align=absMiddle>Some other glaring omissions;Annie HallCasablancaFerris Beuhler's Day OffBreaking AwayRain ManThe Day the Earth Stood StillRaiders of the Lost ArkStar Wars (the first one)Some Like it Hot |
Words are paltry to describe the vapidness of Kubrick's films.
The are simply contrived and dated. I wated Dr. Stragelove and it is the worst black comedy I have ever seen. There is no purpose behind the film.
Moreover, why did Kubrick mock the arms race during the 60s. Kennedy and LBJ were both Democrats so was Kubrick. At least, Roger Moore has the sanity and level-mindedness to denigrate his opposing party. Kubrick was a moron. |
Excuse me, I can appreciate an opposing opinion, but that is pretty harsh. No purpose behind the film? How about the idiocy of the arms race? It wasn't aimed at a particular party. Note that he makes fun of every political viewpoint. You can say you don't like his films, but a moron? Wow, I won't even try to explain why that is so very wrong. I'm pretty sure these statements won't be given any careful consideration anyway.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 02:40
bhikkhu wrote:
Asyte2c00 wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
inpraiseoffolly wrote:
Dr. Strangelove - Kubrick | You beat me to it. That is my all time favorite. [IMG]alt=Clap src="smileys/smiley32.gif" align=absMiddle>Some other glaring omissions;Annie HallCasablancaFerris Beuhler's Day OffBreaking AwayRain ManThe Day the Earth Stood StillRaiders of the Lost ArkStar Wars (the first one)Some Like it Hot |
Words are paltry to describe the vapidness of Kubrick's films.
The are simply contrived and dated. I wated Dr. Stragelove and it is the worst black comedy I have ever seen. There is no purpose behind the film.
Moreover, why did Kubrick mock the arms race during the 60s. Kennedy and LBJ were both Democrats so was Kubrick. At least, Roger Moore has the sanity and level-mindedness to denigrate his opposing party. Kubrick was a moron. |
Excuse me, I can appreciate an opposing opinion, but that is pretty harsh. No purpose behind the film? How about the idiocy of the arms race? It wasn't aimed at a particular party. Note that he makes fun of every political viewpoint. You can say you don't like his films, but a moron? Wow, I won't even try to explain why that is so very wrong. I'm pretty sure these statements won't be given any careful consideration anyway. |
Hey HT, when Asyte2c00 was born in 1988, when he learned to talk there was no USSR, the cold war is probably an urban legend to him, the Praga Spring a dream and the Atomic paranoia is something his grandfather told him.
How can you expect him to understand the intelligent and constant flow of sarcasm and insanity that Kubrik gave us in Dr Strangelove if he never feared a total war?.
Kubrik didn't respected anybody, the weak Democrat pacifist President (Peter Sellers) the Drunk Prime Minister of USSR, the ignorant Militar (George C Scott), the fanatic pilot, the calmed British officer everybody was a blank for him, the guy was an iconoclast.
The same happened in Clockwork Orange, the young criminal, the police, the politicians, nobody had inmunity for Stanley.
Kubrik was a genius, but you need to have lived at least part of this era to be able to understand it. It's hard to understand from today's perspective that in those days, Communits, Democrats or Republicans were all lunatics with enough power to destroy earth 10 times, so all were part of the same insanity, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon were all close to do it, but today it's almost inpossible to understand that for us all were exactly the same risk.
Even the smallest kid knew that nobody would win a nuclear war, but still Democtrats, Republicans and Communists kept getting more weapons....this was insane so Kubrik laughed of this insanity.
Probably people today will find Mr Bean or Jim Carey funnier than great comedians as Peter Sellers or David Niven, actors as Kevin Costner or Mel Gibson much better than Peter O'Toole or Orson Welles but times change and we must accept this.
Now my favorite movies:
- A Clockwork Orange
- The Godfather I and II
- Full Metal Jackett
- Apocalypse Now
- Dr. Strangelove
- Blade Runner
- Luciene Lacombe
- 2001 A Space Odissey
- Satiricon
- Pulp Fiction
This list changes constantly because Citizen Kane, Cassablanca, The Shinning, Silrence of the Lambs, etc have sometimes a place in my top 10 depending in my mood.
Iván
-------------
|
Posted By: Harkmark
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 03:34
Stalker!!!
Other favorites: Solaris 2001 - a space oddysey A clockwork orange Apocalypse now Blue Velvet Wild at heart Lost highway Happiness (T. Solondz) The seventh seal (Ingmar Bergman) Idiotene, Festen, Breaking the waves (Lars von Trier) Crash (Cronenberg) Pulp Fiction De dødes tjern (Kåre Bergstrøm, 1958) (Probably translated as "Death in the blue lake")
etc...
|
Posted By: Faaip_De_Oiad
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 04:20
Cannibal Holocaust !!
-------------
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 05:05
great list ivan, we have so many in common.
here comes my FAVOURITE films list
first, Gilliam's BRAZIL takes the Grand Prize. it's the film of my heart. and recently Gondry's ETERNAL SUNSHINE... also got it, ex aequo.
1. Tarkovsky's RUBLYOV
2. Fellini's SATYRICON
3. Bergman's SEVENTH SEAL
4. Kurosawa's SEVEN SAMURAI
5. Lucian Pintilie's TERMINUS PARADIS
6. Almodovar's TODO SOBRE MI MADRE
7. Scott's BLADE RUNNER
8. Sofia Coppola's LOST IN TRANSLATION
9. Kubrick's BARRY LYNDON
10. Coppola's GODFATHER I
also pending just outside are Hitchcock's VERTIGO, Visconti's LEOPARD, Scorsese's TAXI DRIVER, von Trier's ELEMENT OF CRIME, Wong Kar Wai's IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, Ki-duk Kim's SPRING, SUMMER, FALL, WINTER... AND SPRING, Jeunet's DELICATESSEN... also some of the authors i haven't yet exhausted, so the list may keep changing, as i haven't seen Bergman's Fanny & Alexander or Almodovar's Carne Tremula, just to name some, yet.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:03
Yikes Andu, I forgot Brazil, going to buy the DVD today, really a masterpiece, Terry Gilliams finest Job.
Also one great movie by Lina Wertmuller called Pasqualino Siete Bekkezas /Believe it was called Seven Beauties in English) and a comedy by Pedro Almodovar "Mujeres al Borde de un Ataque de Nervios".
Iván
-------------
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:18
andu wrote:
1. Tarkovsky's RUBLYOV |
Have you seen other films by Tarkovsky? Why did you like "Anderi Rublev" best? I'm not saying it's not good, but it's very hard for me to watch due it's sadistic violence. (!) I'm still quite sure that this is how violence should be shown, and not in the cool Hollywood way.
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:38
Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
andu wrote:
1. Tarkovsky's RUBLYOV |
Have you seen other films by Tarkovsky? Why did you like "Anderi Rublev" best? I'm not saying it's not good, but it's very hard for me to watch due it's sadistic violence. (!) I'm still quite sure that this is how violence should be shown, and not in the cool Hollywood way. |
i've seen all tarkovsky's films, of which i find Stalker and Solaris major masterpieces, The Mirror and Ivan's Childhood halfmasterpieces, Nostalghia a good film but mannerist in style, and The Sacrifice too boring, even over my limits. what "sadistic violence" in Rublyov are you talking about? try Salo or Oldboy for movies on violence and sadism. if you're talking about the harsch life in the mediaeval age, you should call tarkovsky's approach realism, not violence.
the reason for me to like Rublyov that much is that i am really into christianism and the theology of the icon. i am christian-orthodox, this might explain you more.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 07:52
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pedro Almodovar "Mujeres al Borde de un Ataque de Nervios". |
another must-see for me, i know that!
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 08:03
andu wrote:
i've seen all tarkovsky's films, of which i find Stalker and Solaris major masterpieces, The Mirror and Ivan's Childhood halfmasterpieces, Nostalghia a good film but mannerist in style, and The Sacrifice too boring, even over my limits.
|
In addition of these six, there's also a film called " The Steamroller and the Violin" by him, which he did as a student work. I have this on a disc, but I haven't checked out it yet. (too much to do, too little time) I haven't seen "The Sacrifice" yet, but I admit that the plot sounds a bit silly. I have "Ivan's Childhood" as a tape, but I haven't watched that either yet... (!)
I liked "The Mirror" most, maybe as I'm interested of the logic of the dreams and subconsciousness, this film scanning these areas with aestethics matching my tastes 100%. Or maybe it would be better to say that this film created new standards for me in this area, revealing something I could not have believed existed. "Nostalghia" was interesting, but not as great as the Sci-Fi films then are. The scripts are good, and the films hold very strong feeling, something that is never present in the castrated Hollywood films (imo).
andu wrote:
what "sadistic violence" in Rublyov are you talking about? try Salo or Oldboy for movies on violence and sadism. if you're talking about the harsch life in the mediaeval age, you should call tarkovsky's approach realism, not violence.
|
Well, I would call the cutting of the eyes and the several killing sequences sadistic violence, though it would be realistic part of the age's frame of reference. That stuff is a part of our world, and not only "harsch life in the medieval age", it is present in our days too f.ex. in the Middle-East. I'm not criticising of showing it how it is, I just commented that I'm not perhaps strong enough to watch it voluntarily. (see my comment on the previous post about showing violence)
I bought "Salo" on DVD from discount, and it surely is much more violent, I had to stop during the "circle of sh*t" sequence, but I watched it later to end. Aestethically beautiful film, but not very pleasant story to watch.
andu wrote:
the reason for me to like Rublyov that much is that i am really into christianism and the theology of the icon. i am christian-orthodox, this might explain you more. |
Yes!
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 09:04
i stopped watchig Salo at the exact point you mentioned but i never wanted to resume
really nice comment on Mirror there, eetu. i was aware of those aspects as i knew it was a very autobiographical film, and that also added an extra filter to make it more beautiful to me. you have no comment on Solaris and Stalker, is that because you agreed on them being "major masterpieces"? also i am aware of The Steamroller and the Violin but i guess it wasn't re-released on disc. there is one thing left - "The Killers", a black/white short direct by the then students a.tarkovsky and al.gordon, writen on the basis of a hemingway short story; very nice. it was 1955, as i recall.
i see now what you mean about violence and i agree, but sadism is a totally different thing, there is no sadism in there. still i must admit there is a strong difference between that violence and hollywood violence. for example, both Rublyov and Kingdom of Heavens are good depictions of the middle age, but somehow in the latter violence is different, acceptable. i'd say hollywood is only interested in violence for the story and does not care about accuracy, while while Rublyov is concerned in showing it to have better definition of the entire spectrum of human nature. and he needed to be pretty accurate to trouble you, to make you aware of it.
i'd say that the eye of the beholder (the director together with the viewer) is clearly motivated by christian humanism and is "lyrical" in it's approach, there, in Rublyov. i think that the overall meaning is this: first, the painter monk is troubled and can't paint any more beautiful icons for God because the world He created is too violent, and he can't merge them (beauty and violence-envy-hedonism) into one unitary vision. at last, he understand that life is life, with all that, and one is ment to prove himself being worthy of redemption IN THIS ACTUAL world.
[one of the oldest items in the romanian folklore culture is the story of "Manole, the mason". it's an epic poem about the mason/architect of Negru Voda (King Black) - the legendary founder of mediaeval Wallachia, the 1973 "Negru Voda" epic by Phoenix is actually about him doing that. Negru Voda takes Manole and his team to build him the most beautifull cathedral ever. something very strange happens: everything built in daylight get wrecked at night. the king gets unpatient. then, they somehow find out that they need a sacrifice to build: the first wife or sister to come in the morning to bring food from the village must be build in the walls; they all accept thinking "it's not going to be me". in the morning, Manole sees his wife Ana (was she pregnant? i can't recall). he prays for heavy weather, anything that could stop her; but nothing can. he has to accept fatality and builds the wall around her, while hearing her questioning with fright and love at the same time. then, they manage to build the great church. satisfied, the king says he has the greatest church, but Manole uncautious replies that he can always outdo himself. the king gets angry and tears down to the ground the scaffoldings while the team is doing some final job on the roof. he want his church to remain the greatest! feeling his destiny is somehow "done", Manole crafts a pair of wooden wings and jumps. he falls straight down and in the place of his dying impact, a fountain emerges. end. see the recurrent pattern?]
one more thing - are you actually sure those places like the middle east really belong to our world? in a sense, i feel they belong to the mediaeval age.
ah, not to forget - i strongly recomend you Oldboy ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/ - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/ ).
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 21:32
TheProgtologist wrote:
Citizen Caine,Orson Welles was way ahead of his time. |
You know? I'm 15 minutes ahead of my time...
I had to vote for Lost Highway, but... ¡¡¡NO FELLINI ON THE LIST!!!
Blasphemy, Rhinoplasty!!!
------------- ¡Beware of the Bee!
|
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: October 25 2006 at 21:33
Where is Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
-------------
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 02:19
Damn, I had to write this twice as I managed to lost my first reply.
andu wrote:
i stopped watchig Salo at the exact point you mentioned but i never wanted to resume |
I understand. This reaction was for me a bit thought provoking. Why is watching people forced to eat sh*t more disgusting that watching them being killed? Though first mentioned is humiliation and torture, it shouldn’t still be as bad as murder. Maybe killings have been normalized by the violent media or something?
andu wrote:
have no comment on Solaris and Stalker, is that because you agreed on them being "major masterpieces"? also i am aware of The Steamroller and the Violin but i guess it wasn't re-released on disc. there is one thing left - "The Killers", a black/white short direct by the then students a.tarkovsky and al.gordon, writen on the basis of a hemingway short story; very nice. it was 1955, as i recall.
|
Yes, the sci-fi films are totally wonderful! My favorites along with “The Mirror”. About the “Steamroller”, it has been moving in “unofficial markets”. Thanks for the info about the 1955 movie!
andu wrote:
first, the painter monk is troubled and can't paint any more beautiful icons for God because the world He created is too violent, and he can't merge them (beauty and violence-envy-hedonism) into one unitary vision. at last, he understand that life is life, with all that, and one is ment to prove himself being worthy of redemption IN THIS ACTUAL world. |
This is a great theme. I have personally contemplated this kind of subjects, as the surrounding world seems evil and violent from it’s basic essence. A conquest of overcoming this realization is very important, as otherwise it easy to allow these evil things to consume you and you lose the quality of your life.
andu wrote:
are you actually sure those places like the middle east really belong to our world? in a sense, i feel they belong to the mediaeval age. |
I see the whole globe as one world. The division of it by cultural, religious and national borders is only a characteristic of our own species, and it’s own loss I think. The military forces of western Christian industrial countries are heavily committed to the events in Middle-East, and thus our worlds collide. We only get the war at our doors very seldom, when some terrorists manage to strike at us.
|
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 02:27
American Ninja, because it contains the word "Ninja." Sadly, I've only seen American Ninja 3...
------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 06:25
@eetu
Actually Salo is Pasolini's last film and it wasn't proper for me to start watching Pasolini with Salo, but I didn't know this. In the meantime, I read a brilliant essay by Pasolini on the art of cinematography and I heard people discussing his work (Il Decameron, Medea, Teorema, etc.) so I'm eager to start again. ah, there was one more thing - after the shock with Salo, I gave him another chance but it was again a wrong pick - "The Gospel According to Matthew", that I strongly disliked because the orthodox visual depiction of the holy story is so different to the catholic one.
Yeah that is a great theme, I agree. A connected theme is that from "Eternal sunshine...", that lets you understand that regardless of the way you have love, love is love and you must cherrish it. That's why I liked it so much and came in my favourites list.
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 06:29
^ Yes, I'm too unexperiencded of Pasolini's other stuff, but I'm looking forward to watch them. I recall he was killed after Salo by a car which ran over him several times.
|
Posted By: blindtoad
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 12:21
army of darness but where is 2001 space odyssey and eternal sunshine?
------------- quelqu'un pour un jam?
blindtoad = Poor english...
|
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 12:49
Faaip_De_Oiad wrote:
Cannibal Holocaust !!
|
GO TO HELL!!!
A friend was watching that crap the other day. I only saw a couple of seconds of it, but I'm disgusted beyond reach... every copy of that should be buried... and if you like it so much, at the point of writting the name with exclamation marks in a thread about the best movie ever, you are sadly sick.
------------- ¡Beware of the Bee!
|
Posted By: Hatters
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 14:40
Other, The Stand.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/SHatters/?chartstyle=basic10">
|
Posted By: Camelfan
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:53
Where the devil is Highlander? You've got some pretty cool cult films on here though.
I picked Night of the Living Dead myself.
|
Posted By: DarioIndjic
Date Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:18
I choose Mullholand Drive from the list but there is maaaaanny other better films
Like...
Clockwork Orange
Elephant Man
Barry Lyndon
Excalibur
Les Enfants du Paradis
Underground
Time of the Gypsies
Gypsy camps vanishes into the blue
2001 : Space Oddissey
Seven Samurai
Ikiru
Mirror
Andrey Rublyov
Memento
Love's a Bitch
Once Upon A time in the west
The good,the bad and the ugly
Godfather
Fly over a cockoo nest
La Strada
etc,.
Btw.some good films mentioned here fellow progheads
------------- Ars longa , vita brevis
|
Posted By: CaptainQuark
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 17:35
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120655/ - Dogma
------------- Erithacus
Ordinary morals are for ordinary people ~ Aleister Crowley
|
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: October 27 2006 at 19:10
c'mon guys. watch some REAL movies, like BAMBI!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
|
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: October 28 2006 at 17:24
That list needs more python for me to make my decision
------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
|
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: October 28 2006 at 17:27
moreitsythanyou wrote:
That list needs more python for me to make my decision |
That's what I said!
-------------
|
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: October 28 2006 at 17:30
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: October 28 2006 at 17:46
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
Asyte2c00 wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
inpraiseoffolly wrote:
Dr. Strangelove - Kubrick | You beat me to it. That is my all time favorite. [IMG]alt=Clap src="smileys/smiley32.gif" align=absMiddle>Some other glaring omissions;Annie HallCasablancaFerris Beuhler's Day OffBreaking AwayRain ManThe Day the Earth Stood StillRaiders of the Lost ArkStar Wars (the first one)Some Like it Hot |
Words are paltry to describe the vapidness of Kubrick's films.
The are simply contrived and dated. I wated Dr. Stragelove and it is the worst black comedy I have ever seen. There is no purpose behind the film.
Moreover, why did Kubrick mock the arms race during the 60s. Kennedy and LBJ were both Democrats so was Kubrick. At least, Roger Moore has the sanity and level-mindedness to denigrate his opposing party. Kubrick was a moron. |
Excuse me, I can appreciate an opposing opinion, but that is pretty harsh. No purpose behind the film? How about the idiocy of the arms race? It wasn't aimed at a particular party. Note that he makes fun of every political viewpoint. You can say you don't like his films, but a moron? Wow, I won't even try to explain why that is so very wrong. I'm pretty sure these statements won't be given any careful consideration anyway. |
Hey HT, when Asyte2c00 was born in 1988, when he learned to talk there was no USSR, the cold war is probably an urban legend to him, the Praga Spring a dream and the Atomic paranoia is something his grandfather told him.
How can you expect him to understand the intelligent and constant flow of sarcasm and insanity that Kubrik gave us in Dr Strangelove if he never feared a total war?.
Kubrik didn't respected anybody, the weak Democrat pacifist President (Peter Sellers) the Drunk Prime Minister of USSR, the ignorant Militar (George C Scott), the fanatic pilot, the calmed British officer everybody was a blank for him, the guy was an iconoclast.
The same happened in Clockwork Orange, the young criminal, the police, the politicians, nobody had inmunity for Stanley.
Kubrik was a genius, but you need to have lived at least part of this era to be able to understand it. It's hard to understand from today's perspective that in those days, Communits, Democrats or Republicans were all lunatics with enough power to destroy earth 10 times, so all were part of the same insanity, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon were all close to do it, but today it's almost inpossible to understand that for us all were exactly the same risk.
Even the smallest kid knew that nobody would win a nuclear war, but still Democtrats, Republicans and Communists kept getting more weapons....this was insane so Kubrik laughed of this insanity.
Probably people today will find Mr Bean or Jim Carey funnier than great comedians as Peter Sellers or David Niven, actors as Kevin Costner or Mel Gibson much better than Peter O'Toole or Orson Welles but times change and we must accept this.
Now my favorite movies:
- A Clockwork Orange
- The Godfather I and II
- Full Metal Jackett
- Apocalypse Now
- Dr. Strangelove
- Blade Runner
- Luciene Lacombe
- 2001 A Space Odissey
- Satiricon
- Pulp Fiction
This list changes constantly because Citizen Kane, Cassablanca, The Shinning, Silrence of the Lambs, etc have sometimes a place in my top 10 depending in my mood.
Iván |
This is what I mean, I understood these portrayals when I watched the film. It seems too typical for films like Dr. Strangelove. One could almost expect the portaryal of these roles in the film. Kubrick took common, perhaps hackneyed plots, and implemented thm into interestin, "hot" subjects and issues like arms race of the 60s. The requires little work, for everything is at one's disposal.
The most poignant films are usually dramas, and are timeless, meaning they are as relevent todat as they will be million years from now, like Chocolate. That film is Genius. Granted, its based off a book, but the adaptation is flawless, everyone carries out their role perfectly. Its, well, beautiful.
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 28 2006 at 18:22
Asyte2c00 wrote:
This is what I mean, I understood these portrayals when I watched the film. It seems too typical for films like Dr. Strangelove. One could almost expect the portaryal of these roles in the film. Kubrick took common, perhaps hackneyed plots, and implemented thm into interestin, "hot" subjects and issues like arms race of the 60s. The requires little work, for everything is at one's disposal.
Probably in your opinion it was easy, remember we're talking about 1964 when the Hays Code was still on rule ands McCarthy's methods were not totally forgotten.
Today in a world of absolute freedom (For most things) is hard to understand the risks Kubrik took with Dr Strangelove (It's a UK/USA co-production), just check what was the rule for movie pictures until 1967:
The Production Code enumerated three "General Principles":
- No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime - crime , wrongdoing, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil - evil or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin - sin .
- Correct standards of life, subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment, shall be presented.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law - Law , natural or human, shall not be ridiculed, nor shall sympathy be created for its violation.
Specific restrictions were spelled out as "Particular Applications" of these principles:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudity - Nudity and suggestive dances were prohibited.
- The ridicule of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion - religion was forbidden, and ministers of religion were not to be represented as comic characters or villains.
- The depiction of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade - illegal drug use was forbidden, as well as the use of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor - liquor , "when not required by the plot or for proper characterization".
- Methods of crime (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-cracking - safe-cracking , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arson - arson , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling - smuggling ) were not to be explicitly presented.
- References to "sex perversion" (such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality - homosexuality ) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venereal_disease - venereal disease were forbidden, as were depictions of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbirth - childbirth .
- The language section banned various words and phrases that were considered to be offensive.
- Murder scenes had to be filmed in a way that would discourage imitations in real life, and brutal killings could not be shown in detail. "Revenge in modern times" was not to be justified.
- The sanctity of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage - marriage and the home had to be upheld. "Pictures shall not infer that low forms of sex relationship are the accepted or common thing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery - Adultery and illicit sex, although recognized as sometimes necessary to the plot, could not be explicit or justified and were not supposed to be presented as an attractive option.
- Portrayals of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation - miscegenation were forbidden.
- "Scenes of Passion" were not to be introduced when not essential to the plot. "Excessive and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lust - lustful kissing" was to be avoided, along with any other treatment that might "stimulate the lower and baser element."
- The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States - flag of the United States was to be treated respectfully, as were the people and history of other nations.
- "Vulgarity," defined as "low, disgusting, unpleasant, though not necessarily evil, subjects" must be treated within the "subject to the dictates of good taste". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment - Capital punishment , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture - "third-degree methods" , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse - cruelty to children and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruelty_to_animals - animals , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution - prostitution and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgery - surgical operations were to be handled with similar sensitivity.
|
Kubrik disrespected each and every rule, he attacked everything sacred and protected, the dialogues are intelligent, making laugh using stupid faces as Jim Carey or Reese Witherspoon's silly pink comedies is easy but to make laugh with what terrified people is hard.
BTW: I have no problem with people quoting my posts,highlighting sections or using larger fonts as a fact I do it always but please don't alter what it's written by others making marks over the words.
The most poignant films are usually dramas, and are timeless, meaning they are as relevent todat as they will be million years from now, like Chocolate. That film is Genius. Granted, its based off a book, but the adaptation is flawless, everyone carries out their role perfectly. Its, well, beautiful.
I don't know if you're talking about Chocolat by Clair Dennis or Lasse Halstrom (This one is a comedy) or even Chocolat by Vivek Agnihotri but there's a difference,, they are good directors, Stanley Kubrik is an icon recognized by almost every expert in the world.
Stanley will be remembered in 100 years, the rest I doubt it and I believe it's highly disrespectful to call Stanley Kubrik a moron when many of us have expressed admiration for his work because it means we're less than stupids because we admire a moron.
If you don't like his movies or are unable to get what we find in them, say it with freedom, but show some respect for other people's opinions.
Iván
|
-------------
|
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: October 28 2006 at 18:36
Asyte2c00 wrote:
Kubrick was a moron.
The most poignant films are usually dramas, and are timeless, meaning they are as relevent todat as they will be million years from now, like Chocolate. That film is Genius. Granted, its based off a book, but the adaptation is flawless, everyone carries out their role perfectly. Its, well, beautiful.
|
Kubrick moron? Chocolat geniuos? I know who I think's the real moron.
------------- Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 01:24
Rocktopus wrote:
Asyte2c00 wrote:
Kubrick was a moron.
The most poignant films are usually dramas, and are timeless, meaning they are as relevent todat as they will be million years from now, like Chocolate. That film is Genius. Granted, its based off a book, but the adaptation is flawless, everyone carries out their role perfectly. Its, well, beautiful.
|
Kubrick moron? Chocolat geniuos? I know who I think's the real moron.
|
No need for that either Rocktopus, I also got pissed reading the phrase but we are the ones who must show the right way to argue.
Iván
-------------
|
Posted By: Faaip_De_Oiad
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 03:06
cuncuna wrote:
Faaip_De_Oiad wrote:
Cannibal Holocaust !!
|
GO TO HELL!!!
A friend was watching that crap the other day. I only saw a couple of seconds of it, but I'm disgusted beyond reach... every copy of that should be buried... and if you like it so much, at the point of writting the name with exclamation marks in a thread about the best movie ever, you are sadly sick. |
-------------
|
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 03:10
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Rocktopus wrote:
Asyte2c00 wrote:
Kubrick was a moron.
The most poignant films are usually dramas, and are timeless, meaning they are as relevent todat as they will be million years from now, like Chocolate. That film is Genius. Granted, its based off a book, but the adaptation is flawless, everyone carries out their role perfectly. Its, well, beautiful.
|
Kubrick moron? Chocolat geniuos? I know who I think's the real moron.
|
No need for that either Rocktopus, I also got pissed reading the phrase but we are the ones who must show the right way to argue.
Iván |
Sorry, but this time really I had an uncontrollable need. (Of course the moron I was thinking of was...Lasse Hallström!)
------------- Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
|
Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 03:15
"Army of Darkness"
out of the list
|
Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 03:23
Above all:
American Beauty
The beginning of Full Metal Jacket Gladiator Pulp Fiction Shawshank Redemption Reservoir Dogs Amadeus Donnie Darko Crash Office Space
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
|
Posted By: B.B Hood
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 03:32
Crash? I didn't like that at all. Memento and Young Frankenstein for me!
|
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 04:12
I'm more into experimental-expanded cinema, but from the classic one, my favourites are:
. "The Rage" by Piero Paolo Pasolini
. "Kings of the Road" by Wim Wenders
. "Sign of Life" by Werner Herzog
I also have an interest for German Expressionist cinema, so from this list I'm going to vote for FAUST
I don't see the problem with "Cannibal Holocaust", top of italian gore cinema despite that I prefer the delirious experimentations of Hershell Gordon Lewis
-------------
|
Posted By: Sir Pommes
Date Posted: October 29 2006 at 04:24
What is about films from Quentin Tarantino for example Natural Born Killers he has wrote the book
|
Posted By: Badabec
Date Posted: October 30 2006 at 16:07
Best film ever is Big Fish by Tim Burton!!!
That film makes me cry!
------------- Mesmo a tristeza da gente era mais bela E além disso se via da janela Um cantinho de céu e o Redentor
- Antônio Carlos Jobim, Toquinho & Vinícius de Moraes - Carta ao Tom 74
|
Posted By: Faaip_De_Oiad
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 01:35
No one else for Cannibal Holocaust?
How sad.
-------------
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 01:53
Could somebody tell me what in hell is Caquinha Superstar a Go-Go and why is it mentioned?
About Cannibal Holocaust it's an insult to everything, repulsive, vomit inducing, no artistic value and narrated by a porn star.
Iván
-------------
|
Posted By: Tristan Mulders
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 06:30
From this list definitely Mulholland Drive..
although my personal favourite is the 1960 film The Time Machine
------------- Interested in my reviews?
You can find them http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=784 - HERE
"...He will search until He's found a Way to take the Days..."
|
Posted By: Tristan Mulders
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 06:30
Badabec wrote:
Best film ever is Big Fish by Tim Burton!!!
That film makes me cry!
|
The same thing happened to me when I saw the ending!
------------- Interested in my reviews?
You can find them http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=784 - HERE
"...He will search until He's found a Way to take the Days..."
|
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 08:42
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
About Cannibal Holocaust it's an insult to everything, repulsive, vomit inducing, no artistic value and narrated by a porn star.
Iván |
The soundtrack by Riz Ortolani is awsome. I like the movie better than Missing in Action and American Ninja among others (and Big Fish & Chocolat).
------------- Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
|
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 08:51
I wouldn't personally choose any of them. So I didn't.
------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
|
Posted By: gong
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 09:43
on that list i voted for awesome THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE.
|
Posted By: Meddler
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 09:45
im gonna be seeing Dancer in the Dark and The Elephant Man soon, i dont see them here
------------- [IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/amorfous/astro-1.jpg">
|
Posted By: daz2112
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 15:16
Bought Cannibal Ferox,Cannibal Holocaust from Ebay! Forgot how good & gory they really are!! Watched them over 20 years ago & i thought they were the best films ever! Now i think they are still good,but ok, picture quality is poor & acting could be better!
------------- In the constellation of cygnus,There lurks a mysterious force...The black hole
|
Posted By: DarioIndjic
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 22:36
Meddler wrote:
im gonna be seeing Dancer in the Dark and The Elephant Man soon, i dont see them here |
Hey man,great films
------------- Ars longa , vita brevis
|
Posted By: UtUmNo1
Date Posted: November 07 2006 at 12:09
I haven't watched a film since the release of The Return of the King as I know I'm going to be disappointed as the stakes have been raised....
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 07 2006 at 12:18
Sir Pommes wrote:
What is about films from Quentin Tarantino for example Natural Born Killers he has wrote the book
|
awesome... simply awesome... remember loving the L7 track that played
during the prison break sequence so much I bought the album it was off
of and started an obsession with the 'Riot Grrrl' movement in the early
90's. Got into '7 Year Bitch' out of Seatle through L7.
what the hell ...it gets my vote...
RIP Rodney Dangerfield.. an Oscar winning peformance by the way hahahhaha
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 15:47
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Rocktopus wrote:
Asyte2c00 wrote:
Kubrick was a moron.
The most poignant films are usually dramas, and are timeless, meaning they are as relevent todat as they will be million years from now, like Chocolate. That film is Genius. Granted, its based off a book, but the adaptation is flawless, everyone carries out their role perfectly. Its, well, beautiful.
|
Kubrick moron? Chocolat geniuos? I know who I think's the real moron.
|
No need for that either Rocktopus, I also got pissed reading the phrase but we are the ones who must show the right way to argue.
Iván |
I have been browsing through old threads, and have decided to rekindle this debate, for I still, well rather know, I am right regarding the inflated praise attached to Dr. Strangelove.
First, I am referring to the directed by Lasse Hallström.
I am astonished to see the outrage following my remark that Kubrick was a moron.
This is an equally valid view. I know many people who share my point of view. Its not radical.
Many people believe this, however, the greater public has been inculcated with the beleif that Kubrick was a visionary and subsequently fail to indetify the flaws apparent in many of his films.
|
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 21:33
Asyte2c00 wrote:
I am astonished to see the outrage following my remark that Kubrick was a moron.
This is an equally valid view. I know many people who share my point of view. Its not radical.
|
Of course its not radical (that would mean interesting), its just stupid. When you call an intelligent man like Kubrick, great at his
craft, knowlegdable about music, art, photography, and history, that
has made some boundrypushing movie masterpieces, (and some less strong
films) a moron, you're asking for reactions. And what you call an
outrage, was far from it. If I say: Einstein was a moron, all my friends think so too, is it an equally valid view, or am just I being an idiot?
Then you call Chocolat, a medicore, completly unoriginal Hollywood-drama
a genious film. It proves you need to see more movies so you'll stop
making silly, immature judgements like you've done here.
------------- Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
|
Posted By: Spacemac
Date Posted: November 27 2006 at 08:04
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: November 27 2006 at 08:31
American History X and Fight Club
------------- -music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
|
Posted By: jalas
Date Posted: November 28 2006 at 12:17
The best movie ever is the Toxic Avenger, but I chose Hot Shots.
-------------
JOIN THE COMMUNIST PARTY!
|
|