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Brexit: A change of heart??
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Poll Question: Have you changed your mind either way?
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

No rage from me. (are you saying I erased one of your posts even though I'm not an admin? Confused Pushing a political agenda into a football thread would be even more petty minded than any EU fishing minister's minutiae - we're both above that I hope)
The Scottish parliament has no devolved legislative jurisdiction over international matters i.e. the UK parliament is deemed sovereign, the Scottish parliament is not. Just for some more clarity (and you cannot be blamed for maybe not knowing this) I'm Scottish, a British citizen still, who lives in Australia principally because it's about as far as I could get from the 'Perfidious Albion' (and Eurovision). Had I been allowed to vote in the referendum, I would have voted to remain. I'm not sure describing nationalities as 'slimy' 'hating occidental values' or appreciative of sodomy is particularly helpful but reported racism clearly isn't real racism and this just might be your zany European humour at play. I'm also not sure why you conflate English with British? (unless you are again just reporting on perceptions for which you have appointed yourself planetary spokesman) You also seem to imply, deliberately or otherwise, with your remarks on Poles, Ukrainians and Romanians resident in the UK that I am resentful of their presence there. How can someone who emigrated from the UK to another country in 2000 be anti migration? I have no beef with you Sean, but you clearly have deep seated issues with anything or anyone remotely connected to the UK and I can't help you with that I'm afraid.
 
- I knew you were British and but not a Scot.Thumbs Up
- Fleeing Eurovision is perfectly acceptable reason to cross the planet.LOL... only to find that Australia can compete since last year CryTongueWink
- My remarks about the polish (etc...) immigrants was that most of the leavers acknowledged that eastern European immigration was "dangerous" for their well-being ... The main Leave argument aimed at the working class was the immigration of non-commonwealth countries, including intra-EU emigration. Hence, this had nothing to do with your unspecified opinion, though, rest assured.
- What I meant with the Scot referendum is that London authorized it as long as it was before the Brexit one. Had this been done the other way (and the Leave winning), I'm sure (and Westminster, too) Scotland would've noted a Leave UK instead of a remain.
- England (read Westminster) being the very dominant partner in the UK (for obvious demographic reasons), it certainly feels to continental observers that the debate was severely and voluntarily skewed by the order of the two referendums they had chosen.  Therefore London would've never organized the two referendums the other way around regardless of the Brexit results (though I'm fairly confident that Scotland would've remained in the UK if the UK had chosen first to remain in the EU, if consulted afterwards) 
 
- And yes, I often try out zany very-risqué humour (not necessarily European)... and often realize that it might not be as funny as I thought it would be after seeing the reactions. EmbarrassedOuch
 
 
 
BTW, after I'd mentioned the Brexit as a dumb football fan, I had replied to your cartoon (depicting a sinking EU) posting something similar to my second point, and it remained only an hour... I assumed it was either you or that you complained about it to the admins. Never mind, it's water under the bridge.  You're right, though my second post didn't belong to a sport thread.
 
in all cases, sorry if my post didn't go down as well as I expected it to.


Edited by Sean Trane - March 18 2019 at 10:55
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Ian,
we haven't been on friendly terms for a while (your erasure of my post after Belgium's win over England at last WC proves that), but let me explain a few things as honestly (and hopefully politely) as I can , just to explain how much of the planet sees English (and therefore British) behaviour  
 
You gotta be kidding if you think these countries would sign up for entry of the UK inside the EEEA:
- First in terms of size and demography, that would be like the EC accepting China & India and become instantly the minority.
- Second, the UK behaviour inside the EC - after forcing themselves in (they were refused a first time in 63) - ever since joining up in 73 should disgust most anyone to sign anything with them... Out of the 45 years the UK has been inside  the EU, they've been a major nuisance for +/- 35 years ... Only the 73-79 years and Blair era have the UK been more or less constructive...  For the rest, they've been disruptive at best and destructive most of the time.
- allowing the UK inside their EEEA-EC deal could actually jeopardize the very existence of the EEEA and the deal they've got, because no doubt the EC would want to renegotiate that deal, precisely because of this inclusion.
- No doubt Norway, Iceland, Switzerland are aware of the Perfidious Albion nature by now: signing agreements & pacts and do everything not to respect them or find ways to go around them. Like it or not, it's much more than just a reputation the slimy limeys (a typical US expression for the English - yup, even them think that) have been building themselves for centuries.
- the way the parliament has cheated the Northern Irish, and especially the Scottish is simply scandalous: They waited the Scott Independence referendum to hold the Brexit afterwards. If that had been fair, they should've done it the other way around, thus presenting Scotland the real choice: the current mess or the EU (no doubt Scotland would almost be in the EU as a separate entity nowadays). Same with the Irish, getting the support of Orangist/loyalists (the ugly guys in the Irish tragedy and a very mean & boisterous minority) is totally disloyal to the majority of Ulsterians that actually want Europe. Soooo, not only are the English screwing the Scots and Ulsterians up the butt (go figure why the Welsh are agreeing with Brexit Confused... maybe they're so used being sodomised that they fear they can't do without it anymoreLOL) , but they're about to shatter the young generations' future just for a question of Lords and Eton-ites keeping their near-medieval privileges (this is never far away from the surface in old England - underlying and barely subterranean) and hanging on to power like a baby to its hochet. 
 
 
Ying YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing Yang Ying YangYing YangYing YangYing Yang
However, we are very glad to have the UK as a neighbourSmile and a lot of us have not forgotten what the islands have done for all of us in times of big troubles on the continent Hug. Just because of that, the continent would love to forgive the UKHeart, provided it changes its frigging Nukeattitude (and stop driving on the wrong side of the road LOL). And we can never thank England enough for the golden era of progStarClap
 
 
 
 
Soooooo hopefully, after spiting your coffee out of rage on your screen when reading this at firstAngryEmbarrassedLOL, maybe some of this will sink in: get rid of all those the old twit-t***s inside Westminster ASAP (bomb the frigging place if you have toLOL) and let the new generation deal with their future and planet.
 
 
 
BTW, just in case you haven't realised: the Polish, Ukrainians, Romanians (all so-feared/hated by the deep country dwellers) are all very nice immigrants, and the last thing they want is to destroy the "Occident", which probably not the case of many of those southern-Asians, just in for the ride, but hating occidental values.  
 
 
[/QUOTE]

No rage from me. (are you saying I erased one of your posts even though I'm not an admin? Confused Pushing a political agenda into a football thread would be even more petty minded than any EU fishing minister's minutiae - we're both above that I hope)
The Scottish parliament has no devolved legislative jurisdiction over international matters i.e. the UK parliament is deemed sovereign, the Scottish parliament is not. Just for some more clarity (and you cannot be blamed for maybe not knowing this) I'm Scottish, a British citizen still, who lives in Australia principally because it's about as far as I could get from the 'Perfidious Albion' (and Eurovision). Had I been allowed to vote in the referendum, I would have voted to remain. I'm not sure describing nationalities as 'slimy' 'hating occidental values' or appreciative of sodomy is particularly helpful but reported racism clearly isn't real racism and this just might be your zany European humour at play. I'm also not sure why you conflate English with British? (unless you are again just reporting on perceptions for which you have appointed yourself planetary spokesman) You also seem to imply, deliberately or otherwise, with your remarks on Poles, Ukrainians and Romanians resident in the UK that I am resentful of their presence there. How can someone who emigrated from the UK to another country in 2000 be anti migration? I have no beef with you Sean, but you clearly have deep seated issues with anything or anyone remotely connected to the UK and I can't help you with that I'm afraid.


Edited by ExittheLemming - March 18 2019 at 07:33
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Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:


I suspect we'll get a short extension, but for what??? Any deal our PM tables will be rejected purely because it's her deal. Brexit die hards in her own party will want to make no concessions to the EU, and even if the Labour party agreed with every single item within it, they would still vote it down on principle. This is the problem, it's a party political issue, not one of national interest.

What should have happened is that May should have assembled a cross party Brexit committee to decide what was in the best interests of the country. This would have separated those MP's who genuinely had the country's best interests at heart, and those who only wanted to serve themselves or their party, and they could have been measured and judged accordingly in the media. As it is, the government and opposition are still fighting for control of the steering wheel, even as the bus goes over the cliff. That's how pathetic and self serving this revolting class of sh*theads really are. They are a waste of skin, and I wouldn't be surprised if the EU discarded us, as if removing a tick from a cats ear.
IMHO, the EU will gladly allow a short extension, if only to allow most of the continental firms to better prepare the customs paperworks and find alternative partners.
 
But remember that outside the current crisis, no-one on the continent really wants the UK to leaveBroken Heart. But most continentals are aware that unless there are new elections (and then maybe a second referendum), the current bunch ofNukeDead f**kheads inside Wesminster will simply go on with the actual stupidity. The last thing the current parliament will do is quit and provoke new elections, simply because they know full-well that 95% of them will lose their jobs, replaced by a bunch of new heads voted in by the totally disgusted populace.  TBH, I really think that in the current state of things, under-35 votes should count double than 55+ votes... After all it's the young citizens' future at stakes, not the old f**kheads like Barrage and Bojo the clown.
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Does anyone hold out any faith that the UK can maybe broker a last ditch deal similar to that of the EEA member countries Iceland, Liechstenstein and Norway who have access to the single market albeit without any say in EU policy. They would of course have to agree to the free movement of labour but wouldn't be subject to the legislation covering Common Agricultural Policy or Common Fisheries Policy. Wouldn't this be better than the nightmare 'no deal' scenario?
Ian,
we haven't been on friendly terms for a while (your erasure of my post after Belgium's win over England at last WC proves that), but let me explain a few things as honestly (and hopefully politely) as I can , just to explain how much of the planet sees English (and therefore British) behaviour  
 
You gotta be kidding if you think these countries would sign up for entry of the UK inside the EEEA:
- First in terms of size and demography, that would be like the EC accepting China & India and become instantly the minority.
- Second, the UK behaviour inside the EC - after forcing themselves in (they were refused a first time in 63) - ever since joining up in 73 should disgust most anyone to sign anything with them... Out of the 45 years the UK has been inside  the EU, they've been a major nuisance for +/- 35 years ... Only the 73-79 years and Blair era have the UK been more or less constructive...  For the rest, they've been disruptive at best and destructive most of the time.
- allowing the UK inside their EEEA-EC deal could actually jeopardize the very existence of the EEEA and the deal they've got, because no doubt the EC would want to renegotiate that deal, precisely because of this inclusion.
- No doubt Norway, Iceland, Switzerland are aware of the Perfidious Albion nature by now: signing agreements & pacts and do everything not to respect them or find ways to go around them. Like it or not, it's much more than just a reputation the slimy limeys (a typical US expression for the English - yup, even them think that) have been building themselves for centuries.
- the way the parliament has cheated the Northern Irish, and especially the Scottish is simply scandalous: They waited the Scott Independence referendum to hold the Brexit afterwards. If that had been fair, they should've done it the other way around, thus presenting Scotland the real choice: the current mess or the EU (no doubt Scotland would almost be in the EU as a separate entity nowadays). Same with the Irish, getting the support of Orangist/loyalists (the ugly guys in the Irish tragedy and a very mean & boisterous minority) is totally disloyal to the majority of Ulsterians that actually want Europe. Soooo, not only are the English screwing the Scots and Ulsterians up the butt (go figure why the Welsh are agreeing with Brexit Confused... maybe they're so used being sodomised that they fear they can't do without it anymoreLOL) , but they're about to shatter the young generations' future just for a question of Lords and Eton-ites keeping their near-medieval privileges (this is never far away from the surface in old England - underlying and barely subterranean) and hanging on to power like a baby to its hochet. 
 
 
Ying YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing YangYing Yang Ying YangYing YangYing YangYing Yang
However, we are very glad to have the UK as a neighbourSmile and a lot of us have not forgotten what the islands have done for all of us in times of big troubles on the continent Hug. Just because of that, the continent would love to forgive the UKHeart, provided it changes its frigging Nukeattitude (and stop driving on the wrong side of the road LOL). And we can never thank England enough for the golden era of progStarClap
 
 
 
 
Soooooo hopefully, after spiting your coffee out of rage on your screen when reading this at firstAngryEmbarrassedLOL, maybe some of this will sink in: get rid of all those the old twit-t***s inside Westminster ASAP (bomb the frigging place if you have toLOL) and let the new generation deal with their future and planet.
 
 
 
BTW, just in case you haven't realised: the Polish, Ukrainians, Romanians (all so-feared/hated by the deep country dwellers) are all very nice immigrants, and the last thing they want is to destroy the "Occident", which probably not the case of many of those southern-Asians, just in for the ride, but hating occidental values.  
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - March 18 2019 at 04:17
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^ Agreed. I'd sooner bang Boris Johnson (at least he's got tits)
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Originally posted by Chaser Chaser wrote:


^ Theresa May would definitely be a double bagger, but if f**king her would sort out Brexit then even I might give it a go.


I have seen some shocking and unpalatable comments on Brexit, but this one wins the award by a long chalk
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^ Theresa May would definitely be a double bagger, but if f**king her would sort out Brexit then even I might give it a go.
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^ pfff.. .I don't know about you but I havne't got the mental image of f**king Theresa May out of my mind.  Granted I have fantasys about Hillary and dat ass.. ummm hmmm.. but she was quite the looker back in the day.  Not sure if I really want to see what she looked like in her youth.

though I was watching the livestream of the votes last week... you do have some prime f**king A MILF material serving..  perhaps the day will come come when politicians stop talking and compensated for their penis's.. and get real.. and start talking bra sizes. Hell yeah!!!

being a democrat rules man.. beats being an old white Republican guy and popping blue pills to get up and oggling young boys in bathrooms to help get with it after speaking to the latest meetings of Fundy christian groups haha
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^ Yeah, Stephen Barclay telling MPs to vote for the motion and then walking off to vote against it was absolutely priceless.

Brexit has certainly been entertaining, in a black comedy sort of way
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

yeah.... I can see that happening as well..  zero good choices but that is what happens when you jump off a cliff without a parachute.. or any kind of plan.  Bad endings almost always the result

3 choices...  revoke and risk the electorate but don't see the votes even being close to being there for that anyway..  pass the damn agreement (which means labor will have to in part vote for it) .. or do exactly what the meaningless vote today was about.. leaving without a deal.

Meaningless in that 'no deal' is not completely in their hands.. they are bound by the law to leave by a certain date...deal or not... now either they revoke or pass the agreement.  Assuming the 291 represent the max of stupidity in the House of Commons..  hopefully for all that isn't the fall back which means.. really.. the only choice is indeed to pass the agreement

which is why I guess May is proposing only asking for a week extension...  I haven't figured out if she is a f**king good poker player.. but I have my suspicions..

speaking of... I'm more suprised.. though I suppose one shouldn't be that the vote was as close as it was.  

It's so comical I would laugh if it were not for the fact that lots of people, whether or not they voted to Leave, are going to suffer come D Day.  May said at the outset that no deal was better than a bad deal and now that it looks like a distinct possibility, she wants to take no deal off the table?  You can't make this up.  What the actual f**k is happening, how can the political class suffer from a collective epidemic of incompetence across the world. 

oh very comedic my friend...  I loved this... trust a woman to cut through the bullsh*t and see the reality of this. Oh speaking of that..  next to the Ami Poli thread...



Edited by micky - March 16 2019 at 17:08
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What was hilarious about last night's farce was seeing the Prime Minister voting against her own motion! The Tory whips told MPs to vote for it and then, an hour later when the amendment surprisingly passed, the whips told MPs to vote against the government's own motion. You couldn't make it up.

A few posters here have mentioned the Norway option.

The Norway option has been looked at before and it just won't work for the UK.

For a start it would have to be Norway+ which means staying in the customs union (because of the Irish border issue)

That makes it the same as our current arrangement but without any voting rights. In other words it's completely pointless.

In addition the assumption that the UK can just decide to rejoin EFTA is wrong. EFTA would have to agree to it and there are good reasons to believe that they would not agree.

The UK would upset the balance of EFTA, who are concerned that the UK would use EFTA as a stepping stone to a full exit of the EU.

In addition, the EFTA countries have an equal say on trade deals. That means that Lichtenstein, with a population of 60,000 could block the UK from getting a trade deal with a major country like the USA. How long is that arrangement likely to last? Not long I suspect.

The Norway option and EFTA are red herrings and won't get us out of the mess.
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:


It's so comical I would laugh if it were not for the fact that lots of people, whether or not they voted to Leave, are going to suffer come D Day.  May said at the outset that no deal was better than a bad deal and now that it looks like a distinct possibility, 

It has to be said though that there is no evidence whatsoever that no deal would be any better for those people than the one May has negotiated.
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Originally posted by Chaser Chaser wrote:

The only interesting question is whether one of the 27 will refuse to agree to an extension.

Then we really are in the sh*t!

Of course Nigel Farage is currently running around in Europe and tries to get his Italian or Polish mates to do just that.
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On a more heartening note, IF they do vote to delay the withdrawal and IF they agree to whatever conditions the EU places on them, the big short that I suspect many wealthy Brexiteers, including possibly a certain popular comedian who lives outside UK, had lined up in gleeful anticipation of Mar 29 will get blown to pieces.  Karmic retribution in that case and I hope it happens.
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

yeah.... I can see that happening as well..  zero good choices but that is what happens when you jump off a cliff without a parachute.. or any kind of plan.  Bad endings almost always the result

3 choices...  revoke and risk the electorate but don't see the votes even being close to being there for that anyway..  pass the damn agreement (which means labor will have to in part vote for it) .. or do exactly what the meaningless vote today was about.. leaving without a deal.

Meaningless in that 'no deal' is not completely in their hands.. they are bound by the law to leave by a certain date...deal or not... now either they revoke or pass the agreement.  Assuming the 291 represent the max of stupidity in the House of Commons..  hopefully for all that isn't the fall back which means.. really.. the only choice is indeed to pass the agreement

which is why I guess May is proposing only asking for a week extension...  I haven't figured out if she is a f**king good poker player.. but I have my suspicions..

speaking of... I'm more suprised.. though I suppose one shouldn't be that the vote was as close as it was.  

It's so comical I would laugh if it were not for the fact that lots of people, whether or not they voted to Leave, are going to suffer come D Day.  May said at the outset that no deal was better than a bad deal and now that it looks like a distinct possibility, she wants to take no deal off the table?  You can't make this up.  What the actual f**k is happening, how can the political class suffer from a collective epidemic of incompetence across the world. 
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"Like the passengers of the Titanic voting for the iceberg to move" was how one European minister put it.

An extension now looks inevitable, and the Germans, who hold all the power, want a long one.

MPs will vote to extend the article 50 process today, but then expect the EU to lay down hard terms for an extension.

Expect a two year extension to be demanded, plus, possibly, a second UK referendum.

The EU holds all the cards now. The only interesting question is whether one of the 27 will refuse to agree to an extension.

Then we really are in the sh*t!
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Does anyone hold out any faith that the UK can maybe broker a last ditch deal similar to that of the EEA member countries Iceland, Liechstenstein and Norway who have access to the single market albeit without any say in EU policy. They would of course have to agree to the free movement of labour but wouldn't be subject to the legislation covering Common Agricultural Policy or Common Fisheries Policy. Wouldn't this be better than the nightmare 'no deal' scenario?

The EU would probably be fine with that but I don't think that May or any Tory would want to get such a thing through which is far closer to what Corbyn and Labour are asking for than anything that was tabled by the government, let alone the Brexit rebels. If there was no party politics, one could probably find a majority for this in parliament after all the chaos, but in reality it would mean that Brexit is basically managed by Corbyn and I don't see the Tories allowing this to happen.
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Does anyone hold out any faith that the UK can maybe broker a last ditch deal similar to that of the EEA member countries Iceland, Liechstenstein and Norway who have access to the single market albeit without any say in EU policy. They would of course have to agree to the free movement of labour but wouldn't be subject to the legislation covering Common Agricultural Policy or Common Fisheries Policy. Wouldn't this be better than the nightmare 'no deal' scenario?


That won't happen IMO.

Putting a stop to freedom of movement was a main motivation for many leave voters for a start, and hardline Brexiteers within the government would reject this, as it would be seen as capitulation to Europe. I don't think the "Norway" option was ever even considered.

It's a shame, because I think it would obviously be preferable to no deal, which I think would be a complete disaster.
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Points: 11415 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2019 at 03:09
Does anyone hold out any faith that the UK can maybe broker a last ditch deal similar to that of the EEA member countries Iceland, Liechstenstein and Norway who have access to the single market albeit without any say in EU policy. They would of course have to agree to the free movement of labour but wouldn't be subject to the legislation covering Common Agricultural Policy or Common Fisheries Policy. Wouldn't this be better than the nightmare 'no deal' scenario?
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