What is "prog" about Tool and similar bands?

Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture isn't prog either, despite being quite long with various time signatures, and incorporating bells and cannon, as well as brass and woodwind.



Edited by Stool Man - January 08 2015 at 11:56

Tool is progressive! To be honest i didn't like them at first either. They grew on me after i just let go and enjoyed them for what they were instead of wanting them to be more progressive in some other ways. Yeah they can be repetitive but they use a repertoire of unusual time signatures including using hitherto (as far as i know) used timings like those based on the Fibonacci sequence:1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377 etc. Tool's progressiveness may be subtler than more in your face bands because they dress in an alternative rock sound but if you really dig into the compositions you can not deny the progressive qualities embedded within. 

OK, I shall answer some of your questions.

You may have guessed it: I don't like Tool.  Or rather, I don't like what I have heard yet of Tool.  I haven't listened to everything they have put out.  Just five or six songs from various albums.

But that is not the reason why I don't consider them prog.  There is prog that I don't like much, such as most of Steven Wilson's stuff.  Sure, there is not much prog I don't like, but there is, and there is of course plenty of non-prog I like.

Progressive rock, to me, refers to a particular current within rock music that started with bands such as The Moody Blues, Procol Harum and later Yes, King Crimson and Pink Floyd in late-60s England, and spread to other countries from there.  And I feel that Tool is, though in some points influenced by it, not part of that current.  Nor are those bands who make similar music.

The reason why I don't consider Tool prog is that much of what characterizes and constitutes prog is IMHO missing, most importantly the changeful dramaturgy and, especially relevant, the spirit of classical progressive rock.  Granted, this spirit has attenuated in later prog, but usually, it is still there.  There is nothing of it in Tool.

So, what is this "spirit"?  It is the notion that progressive rock is progressive in three ways:

1. It is musically progressive in breaking out of the "radio single" mold, towards sophisticated musical and lyrical structure.

2. It is technologically progressive in embracing new music technologies, such as synthesizers and recording procedures.

3. It is socially progressive in taking a critical but non-cynical stance on bourgeois society, championing change to a freer and more equitable society, and being sensitive to social, environmental and related issues.

Sure, these three ways of being progressive are not equally strong in all progressive rock (especially the last of the three has attenuated considerably), but to some degree, they are there.

Tool certainly do very much their own thing.  My first encounter with them was in the early 90s in a TV music magazine, when they made what I remember as some sort of industrial metal.  They have changed considerably since then.  I also don't deny that they are influenced by progressive rock.  But they are perhaps as much progressive rock as English is a Romance language.

Angelo wrote: some people have lives outside the net ;)

The music. 

  Still havent got any news from the starter of this, does he love TOOL, but hate the fact that they are consideret Prog, because they are not. Or just that he dislikes TOOL, and the question then becomes silly.  

SteveG wrote: I posted a question last year asking what PA members thought of Tool, I.E. if they liked or disliked them.   It never occurred to me to question if the band's music was progressive as I simply took to be. This is due to their later album output which showcases extended songs with numerous time signature changes and other features that are generally indentified as progressive.   What is your definition of Progressive Rock would be a better question.

That, and their friendship with Robert Fripp and their avowed influence from King Crimson.

Does Tool sing about elves and gnomes? No. So they aren't prog. Well wait......they have cool album covers so maybe they are a little proggy.

Interesting reading in this thread - well done lads .
Now, if I may relate my experience with this band : I'd heard through the grapevine of this band, Tool, and as an observation, noticed most fans were pimply little skater dudes and chemically altered metalheads. I thought with a name like 'Tool', and these nutters advocating them, they must be pus.....
Anyway, my good mate Michael (Aussie Byrd Brother, to most folks here) had the CD of Lateralus in his car and I requested he play me some.......not sure which tracks he played, but I really was impressed and stated loudly " f**k me ! These guys are Prog " (or words to that effect). Took me a while to score me a nice vinyl version of the album but I enjoy it heaps every time I spin it. And I did feel a smidge of Crimso in their music.......

micky wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: <span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.4;"></span> <span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.4;">Everything boils down to the ongoing discussion of the distinction between Prog and progressive music.....and until Max decides which way the wind blows, we're destined to deal with these sort of threads.</span> nah. M@x has nothing to do with it.. what does he do .. change a banner. People have the tendency to see less in the bands they don't like. M@X whipping out his magic wand and making this progressive archives isn't going to make those who don't like Tool.. or metal in general.. suddenly see the light in questions exactly like this. the nail was hit squarely on the head... it has everything to do with a dislike manifested into a notion that only 'good' bands can be included here, and if a person doesn't like them..  they are not worthy of being here. I'm not a fan at ALL of the group, but years ago I was encouraged by some friends to explore them,  I didn't like it.. but I'd be out of my f**king mind to deny they should be here.   Anyone who fails themselves to see it...is not exercizing his god given right to use his f**king brain instead of just running their mouths.  hah.

That is part of it Micky, but would you call most of the bands found in post rock, avant, Kraut, PE or folk Prog bands? I'd call them progressive sure but prog? Nope, but then again that's just me. If Max changed the banner to Progressive Music Archives we wouldn't have a need for these discussions - or not as many

Alright I'm done now. I am going on hiatus in regards to this subject. It all ends in different posters posting various ways of explaining what prog is to them or similarly what prog isn't. We're never going to find a common ground for all.