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akamaisondufromage View Drop Down
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2014 at 01:38
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

^ Seems pretty accurate, I'm surprised it's not 99%. The reason for that is that we've seen this movie before, we've been there already, a cease fire is another word for let's reschedule the war for next year. Without a significant progress towards peace or stopping terror acts everybody seems to agree on continuing until either is accomplished. I don't see it happening, I think a cease fire is close. 

Btw Israel has agreed to all humanitarian cease fires till now, Hamas didn't. They are not interested in a cease fire just as much as we don't.
So you defend the bombing of the school?! How can you ignore the deaths of innocent men, women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas. Look at the statistics. Over a thousand Palestinians dead, the majority innocent people. This is not a war on Hamas; this is a war on innocent men, women and children. The Palestinians are being butchered and the world, and prog archives, sigh indifferently. I have nothing against the people of Israel but the actions of your government is state sanctioned murder. You say you want to stop terrorist acts; you don't regard the bombing of schools and hospitals terrorists acts? If they were Israeli the world would be in uproar but the Palestinians are left to die. Even the UN has criticized Israel. What your government is doing is completely indefensible. Hamas rockets firing into Israel, that seem to do hardly any damage compare to Israel's, does not give Israel the right to randomly murder innocent men women and children. I can't even believe your going to reply defending their actions; how do you defend schools and hospitals being bombed and children being blown up playing on a beach?!
Well as was already explained before, first of all civilians who hide ammunition for Hamas or digging tunnels out of their children's room or aiding Hamas in any way are an accomplice. If you're firing rockets out of civilians houses, hospitals, schools and mosques or use them as an ammunition bunker (which is the case here), you're putting all of you're surrounding in danger. People are being told before their houses are gonna be shelled, if you want to be there when it happens it's up to you. But don't expect me not to react if you're hiding behind innocent civilians, if you are an innocent civilian and you care for your family's life go to a different place. Thousands of Israeli civilians who lives close to the border also evacuated, I mean come on you're living in a war zone!

Another thing is I don't agree that if your rockets this time didn't cause any damage then I shouldn't react, are you serious? You mean to tell me that if your house is gonna be threatened with missiles every day but nothing happens then your gonna be ok with it? I won't believe it for a second.

I'm sure you haven't fully grasp or knew but Israel is under missiles attacks from Gaza for 14 years now, suicide bombings for 20 years, the north was under missiles for decades! And various terror attacks including kidnapping and murder. If you'll put together the number of these casualties you'll be shocked! 
People are calling it a "situation", no buddy it's a war! Are you familiar with any war where civilians weren't killed?

Edit: And here's a proof for my explanation for 'why are there so many civilians killed?'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ6S0-o3uFI&feature=youtu.be



You are saying that the UN school (that Israel was told about 15 times or so) was an ammunition bunker? So why haven't I heard this before anywhere else? I think you implied the same about the last UN School that israel bombed  afterwards claiming it was an error. 
 
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2014 at 01:26
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

^ Seems pretty accurate, I'm surprised it's not 99%. The reason for that is that we've seen this movie before, we've been there already, a cease fire is another word for let's reschedule the war for next year. Without a significant progress towards peace or stopping terror acts everybody seems to agree on continuing until either is accomplished. I don't see it happening, I think a cease fire is close. 

Btw Israel has agreed to all humanitarian cease fires till now, Hamas didn't. They are not interested in a cease fire just as much as we don't.
So you defend the bombing of the school?! How can you ignore the deaths of innocent men, women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas. Look at the statistics. Over a thousand Palestinians dead, the majority innocent people. This is not a war on Hamas; this is a war on innocent men, women and children. The Palestinians are being butchered and the world, and prog archives, sigh indifferently. I have nothing against the people of Israel but the actions of your government is state sanctioned murder. You say you want to stop terrorist acts; you don't regard the bombing of schools and hospitals terrorists acts? If they were Israeli the world would be in uproar but the Palestinians are left to die. Even the UN has criticized Israel. What your government is doing is completely indefensible. Hamas rockets firing into Israel, that seem to do hardly any damage compare to Israel's, does not give Israel the right to randomly murder innocent men women and children. I can't even believe your going to reply defending their actions; how do you defend schools and hospitals being bombed and children being blown up playing on a beach?!
Well as was already explained before, first of all civilians who hide ammunition for Hamas or digging tunnels out of their children's room or aiding Hamas in any way are an accomplice. If you're firing rockets out of civilians houses, hospitals, schools and mosques or use them as an ammunition bunker (which is the case here), you're putting all of you're surrounding in danger. People are being told before their houses are gonna be shelled, if you want to be there when it happens it's up to you. But don't expect me not to react if you're hiding behind innocent civilians, if you are an innocent civilian and you care for your family's life go to a different place. Thousands of Israeli civilians who lives close to the border also evacuated, I mean come on you're living in a war zone!

Another thing is I don't agree that if your rockets this time didn't cause any damage then I shouldn't react, are you serious? You mean to tell me that if your house is gonna be threatened with missiles every day but nothing happens then your gonna be ok with it? I won't believe it for a second.

I'm sure you haven't fully grasp or knew but Israel is under missiles attacks from Gaza for 14 years now, suicide bombings for 20 years, the north was under missiles for decades! And various terror attacks including kidnapping and murder. If you'll put together the number of these casualties you'll be shocked! 
People are calling it a "situation", no buddy it's a war! Are you familiar with any war where civilians weren't killed?

Edit: And here's a proof for my explanation for 'why are there so many civilians killed?'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ6S0-o3uFI&feature=youtu.be

But the civilians who fled their homes to UN schools and hospitals are also being bombed! You say they warn them to leave their homes; they flee their homes and Israel bomb the schools and hospital they flee to! Were they hiding ammunition? The damage done by Israeli rockets is completely disproportionate; if my home is being attacked by rockets I don't respond by randomly blowing up innocent men women and children who had nothing to do with it. You say its a war but the civilians being killed are nearly all Palestinian; there's no equal war here. There one's country using high caliber rockets killing thousands against a weak impoverished people firing weak missiles incapable of causing the damage Israeli rockets can cause. It's completely disproportionate and shows no respect for innocent people who have done nothing to Israel. 


Edited by Adams Bolero - July 31 2014 at 01:28
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Points: 6632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2014 at 01:07
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

^ Seems pretty accurate, I'm surprised it's not 99%. The reason for that is that we've seen this movie before, we've been there already, a cease fire is another word for let's reschedule the war for next year. Without a significant progress towards peace or stopping terror acts everybody seems to agree on continuing until either is accomplished. I don't see it happening, I think a cease fire is close. 

Btw Israel has agreed to all humanitarian cease fires till now, Hamas didn't. They are not interested in a cease fire just as much as we don't.
So you defend the bombing of the school?! How can you ignore the deaths of innocent men, women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas. Look at the statistics. Over a thousand Palestinians dead, the majority innocent people. This is not a war on Hamas; this is a war on innocent men, women and children. The Palestinians are being butchered and the world, and prog archives, sigh indifferently. I have nothing against the people of Israel but the actions of your government is state sanctioned murder. You say you want to stop terrorist acts; you don't regard the bombing of schools and hospitals terrorists acts? If they were Israeli the world would be in uproar but the Palestinians are left to die. Even the UN has criticized Israel. What your government is doing is completely indefensible. Hamas rockets firing into Israel, that seem to do hardly any damage compare to Israel's, does not give Israel the right to randomly murder innocent men women and children. I can't even believe your going to reply defending their actions; how do you defend schools and hospitals being bombed and children being blown up playing on a beach?!
Well as was already explained before, first of all civilians who hide ammunition for Hamas or digging tunnels out of their children's room or aiding Hamas in any way are an accomplice. If you're firing rockets out of civilians houses, hospitals, schools and mosques or use them as an ammunition bunker (which is the case here), you're putting all of you're surrounding in danger. People are being told before their houses are gonna be shelled, if you want to be there when it happens it's up to you. But don't expect me not to react if you're hiding behind innocent civilians, if you are an innocent civilian and you care for your family's life go to a different place. Thousands of Israeli civilians who lives close to the border also evacuated, I mean come on you're living in a war zone!

Another thing is I don't agree that if your rockets this time didn't cause any damage then I shouldn't react, are you serious? You mean to tell me that if your house is gonna be threatened with missiles every day but nothing happens then your gonna be ok with it? I won't believe it for a second.

I'm sure you haven't fully grasp or knew but Israel is under missiles attacks from Gaza for 14 years now, suicide bombings for 20 years, the north was under missiles for decades! And various terror attacks including kidnapping and murder. If you'll put together the number of these casualties you'll be shocked! 
People are calling it a "situation", no buddy it's a war! Are you familiar with any war where civilians weren't killed?

Edit: And here's a proof for my explanation for 'why are there so many civilians killed?'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ6S0-o3uFI&feature=youtu.be



Edited by Sagichim - July 31 2014 at 01:09
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2014 at 00:00
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

^ Seems pretty accurate, I'm surprised it's not 99%. The reason for that is that we've seen this movie before, we've been there already, a cease fire is another word for let's reschedule the war for next year. Without a significant progress towards peace or stopping terror acts everybody seems to agree on continuing until either is accomplished. I don't see it happening, I think a cease fire is close.

Btw Israel has agreed to all humanitarian cease fires till now, Hamas didn't. They are not interested in a cease fire just as much as we don't.
So you defend the bombing of the school?! How can you ignore the deaths of innocent men, women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas. Look at the statistics. Over a thousand Palestinians dead, the majority innocent people. This is not a war on Hamas; this is a war on innocent men, women and children. The Palestinians are being butchered and the world, and prog archives, sigh indifferently. I have nothing against the people of Israel but the actions of your government is state sanctioned murder. You say you want to stop terrorist acts; you don't regard the bombing of schools and hospitals terrorists acts? If they were Israeli the world would be in uproar but the Palestinians are left to die. Even the UN has criticized Israel. What your government is doing is completely indefensible. Hamas rockets firing into Israel, that seem to do hardly any damage compare to Israel's, does not give Israel the right to randomly murder innocent men women and children. I can't even believe your going to reply defending their actions; how do you defend schools and hospitals being bombed and children being blown up playing on a beach?!


Edited by Adams Bolero - July 31 2014 at 00:03
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Points: 6632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 18:16
^ Seems pretty accurate, I'm surprised it's not 99%. The reason for that is that we've seen this movie before, we've been there already, a cease fire is another word for let's reschedule the war for next year. Without a significant progress towards peace or stopping terror acts everybody seems to agree on continuing until either is accomplished. I don't see it happening, I think a cease fire is close.

Btw Israel has agreed to all humanitarian cease fires till now, Hamas didn't. They are not interested in a cease fire just as much as we don't.
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Points: 1184 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 15:14
Heard on the news that 92% of Israelis oppose cease-fire. Had trouble finding a source for that exactly, but I did find another like this.
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Points: 2808 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 14:36
Seems an over reaction to bomb Gazza. He should be left alone, alcoholism is a disease and he needs support.  
 
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 13:55
United Nations officials described the killing of sleeping children as a disgrace to the world and accused Israel of a serious violation of international law after a school in Gaza being used to shelter Palestinian families was shelled on Wednesday. At least 15 people, mostly children and women, died when the school in Jabaliya refugee camp was hit by five shells during a night of relentless bombardment across Gaza. More than 100 people were injured.
Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, said the attack was "outrageous and unjustifiable" and demanded "accountability and justice". The UN said its officials had repeatedly given details of the school and its refugee population to Israel.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2014 at 13:27
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/742969

Quote UN building in Gaza shelled five times within one hour - official
July 30, 21:31 UTC+4

Another United Nations school serving as a shelter for Palestinians in Gaza was hit by shells Wednesday morning, killing children



UNITED NATIONS, July 30, /ITAR-TASS/. The headquarters of two UN agencies in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday was shelled five times within an hour, UN undersecretary general for humanitarian affairs Valerie Amos said on Wednesday.
The headquarters of the office of the UN special coordinator for the Middle East peace process and the UN humanitarian affairs coordination office five times came under fire in the period from 01:00 a.m. to 02:00 a.m. (02:00 - 03:00 a.m., Moscow time). The only power plant in Gaza was also shelled. It is unlikely that its operation will be resumed any time soon, she said. According to her, most houses in Gaza now get electricity for only two hours per day due to the station damage.
Amos also said that another United Nations school serving as a shelter for Palestinians in Gaza was hit by shells Wednesday morning, killing children. Senior UN officials strongly condemned the attack on the school of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). Amos said it was flagrant violation of international law.
The Israeli military offensive in Gaza, which is home to 1.8 million people, has left hundreds dead and thousands injured. Over 182,000 displaced people have now taken refuge in facilities run by the UNRWA.
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Guys, just have a beer together. This is just like the protests that I observed in Boston the other day... Name-calling and irrational emotional responses...
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Points: 1184 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 17:30
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

You even  promised to respond later.........


In case you missed it, that ended with the following:

Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

Don't want to hear.


//EDIT 2: On second thought, this is just going to breed more drama. I have removed my response.


Edited by Gamemako - July 29 2014 at 17:51
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Points: 6632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 17:13
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

^ Well there are a few levels of practice. I'm not sure really but I'll say maybe 50% are not religious but pretty much all of those are celebrating holidays (like me). The rest are religious but of course there are a few levels for that. Some are living a "normal" life having jobs or careers but still observe the sabbath if you know what I mean. And of course some have no jobs except for the job of praying to the lord! Things are pretty complex here but then again kind of simple too.
There is something to be said about so much hatred and war centered around religious beliefs and differences.  I kind of wonder how much that goes on there is really just because of the zealots on both sides, which sadly causes the rest of the people to have to suffer through it.  Obviously, there are historical differences that go back a long, long time but one has to wonder if overall it is a good thing that more people are less religious.  I suspect that the average person on both sides of the dispute would tell you that they want the same thing.  A peaceful existence for themselves and their children.  Unfortunately, it is those extremists on both sides that don't allow this to happen.  The sad thing being that the religions themselves pretty much teach how to live a peaceful existence...it is just those who misinterpret these teachings for political gain which cause the misery which is caused.  

Just kind of an outsider's view from many miles away; I have no personal experience of having been there or first hand experience of observing what goes on other than what US media wants me to see.
It's a little different here, religion isn't being misinterpreted to be honest, there are no calling for violence in the name of....
All civilians wants their peace, no one here wants or thinks it's a good idea to occupy Gaza, it costs a lot of money, soldiers and civilians are killed and it's not like I can visit there so why do I need it? The country is pretty much divided between the idea of how to ensure this peace. But I can tell you left or right, no one here wants to take anymore sh*t from Hamas. There was always the fear of... how can I be sure that if I'll open the Gaza port and the border to Egypt towards Gaza, that fanatics won't take advantage of it and unleash mega terror acts, I remind you a lot of them don't believe Israel should exist.


Edited by Sagichim - July 29 2014 at 17:30
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 16:47
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:

Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

Oh and don't call me ignorant, I didn't call you names, try to keep it in the civilized way or take a f**king hike.


You are apparently ignorant about the definition of the word ignorant as well.

Did read post, will respond more later.

You are very clever manipulator of words Gamemako, but how can Sagi be ignorant if he is an Israeli ducking missiles? Confused You are comfortably numb in your peaceful homeland security-protected USA , and that makes YOU ignorant of the issues and ignorant of the definition of the term. We commend your bravery, you are entitled to any opinion even its its ludicrous but accusing someone of what he cannot be is pretty cowardly. 
You even  promised to respond later.........but only with some propaganda video. 
You are a smart man, and a free one. Clap
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 66256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 16:45
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

^ Well there are a few levels of practice. I'm not sure really but I'll say maybe 50% are not religious but pretty much all of those are celebrating holidays (like me). The rest are religious but of course there are a few levels for that. Some are living a "normal" life having jobs or careers but still observe the sabbath if you know what I mean. And of course some have no jobs except for the job of praying to the lord! Things are pretty complex here but then again kind of simple too.
There is something to be said about so much hatred and war centered around religious beliefs and differences.  I kind of wonder how much that goes on there is really just because of the zealots on both sides, which sadly causes the rest of the people to have to suffer through it.  Obviously, there are historical differences that go back a long, long time but one has to wonder if overall it is a good thing that more people are less religious.  I suspect that the average person on both sides of the dispute would tell you that they want the same thing.  A peaceful existence for themselves and their children.  Unfortunately, it is those extremists on both sides that don't allow this to happen.  The sad thing being that the religions themselves pretty much teach how to live a peaceful existence...it is just those who misinterpret these teachings for political gain which cause the misery which is caused. 

Just kind of an outsider's view from many miles away; I have no personal experience of having been there or first hand experience of observing what goes on other than what US media wants me to see.
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^ Well there are a few levels of practice. I'm not sure really but I'll say maybe 50% are not religious but pretty much all of those are celebrating holidays (like me). The rest are religious but of course there are a few levels for that. Some are living a "normal" life having jobs or careers but still observe the sabbath if you know what I mean. And of course some have no jobs except for the job of praying to the lord! Things are pretty complex here but then again kind of simple too.
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Points: 66256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 16:00
Sagi, is religion still strongly practiced in Israel?  Just curious, if most Israeli Jews are kind of lackadaisical about religion, accept for major holidays, or if the religious views and beliefs are strongly held throughout Israeli's Jewish society.  
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Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:


Let's try to get more constructive, what sort of direction do you think could lead to a peace agreement? (if possible try to avoid just saying that peace with the Palestinians is impossible). I guess that there is land enough to accomodate both communities?
I think it is possible but there will have to be some major change in the Gaza strip and in their world view. I think Israel can accept all of Hamas terms or at least most of them (some may be too big of a threat on home security so I'm not sure about them).
But anyway the big terms should be accepted such as the opening of Rafah crossing, opening Gaza's port and fishing area, and anything that should be of help to the Palestinian people of creating a better life with an evolving economy, they deserve it just as much as we do. I think the better life they will have, there will be the less need for violence, just look at the arab civilians living in Israel in small villages or in bigger cities, they have the same life as Israeli civilians. I'm sure there is still some level of hate but they will have too much to loose if they take any violent actions towards civilians or soldiers.

On the other side Hamas and his fellow organizations must cease to exist and in stead there should be some kind of ruling authority like PA, in addition to that their warped upbringing methods of teaching hate and violence towards Israel/Jews must also stop or there will always be some level of terror.

There will be no terror attacks of any kind on Israel exactly like there are no more terror attacks coming from Egypt, Jordan and Syria. Of course building of tunnels under the Israeli border is not accepted.

The same way Israelis can't visit the majority of arab countries, Palestinians shouldn't be allowed into Israel.

Peace.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 12:26
The only real thing about small members is that people compensate for them with trucks and guns Tongue

Really that had so little to do with anything. 
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Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

I'm not really following this too closely, but both sides seem to me like they are involved in committing atrocities (anytime civilians are targeted, I consider that an atrocity). And I don't pay much attention to Howard Stern, but how do you know so much about the size of his member? Is the simple fact that he does not agree with your position an indication of the size of his manhood? "Men who agree with me must have large ones. Men who don't agree with me must have small ones." Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?


He admited that so that's a funny fact, of course it doesn't really matter.

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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 11:11
What are the arabic and hebrew words for a never ending tragady? Unhappy
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