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Worldwide solidarity with Gaza

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Topic: Worldwide solidarity with Gaza
Posted By: Svetonio
Subject: Worldwide solidarity with Gaza
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 01:21










Quote By John Catalinotto

July 22, 2014

Often the corporate media use the term “international community” to give weight to an opinion that is really the opinion of a handful of imperialist heads of state — from the U.S., its major NATO allies and Japan. Since the Israeli assault on Gaza began, the real international community is coming out into the streets, sometimes defying police violence, to show its solidarity with Gaza and Palestine and protest.

These protests and their acceptance by many others in their regions showed the growing support for the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israel, and growing solidarity with Palestine.

Thousands came out in Istanbul, Turkey, at 1:30 a.m. on July 18 to besiege the Israeli Consulate, facing water cannons wielded by police. Pro-Palestinian activists waving Turkish and Palestinian flags chanted, “Hail to the resistance from Istanbul to Gaza!” “Murderer Israel, get out of Palestine!” and “Strike, strike, Hamas! Strike against Israel!” (Russia Today, July 18) Another demonstration in Ankara, the capital, attacked the Israeli Embassy, fighting with police to do it.

The French government took the extraordinary step of outlawing pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Despite threats of prison and fines, organizers estimate that up to 10,000 people attended a rally in central Paris. In the city’s northern suburb of Sarcelles, young demonstrators erupted in rebellion against the ban to show solidarity with Gaza. Police arrested 38 for their alleged participation in the protest. (RT, July 20)

On July 18, the Filipino mass movement organized a solidarity protest as a reaction to the Israeli attacks on Gaza. Even though the country is paralyzed after being hit by Typhoon Glenda, the movement managed to gather about 200 people, including trade unionists; health workers; international delegates from the U.S., south Korea, Cambodia and Belgium; human rights activists; and religious groups. During a short rally in the Mendiola area of Manila, Philippines, the speakers not only targeted the Israeli government but also underlined the role of the U.S.

Mass demonstrations took place July 17 in Mumbai, Ahmedabad and other Indian cities and in Srinagar, in Indian-ruled Kashmir. People held protests outside the Israeli embassies in Seoul, south Korea, and Beijing, China. Thousands also demonstrated in Indonesia’s capital, Jakarta, on July 18.

Demonstrations were held in Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban in South Africa; in Cairo, Egypt; in Rabat, Morocco; and in Tunis, Tunisia, denouncing the Israeli assault and saying, as they did in Tunis, “We are all Gaza.” (Al-Jazeera, July 19)

In Europe, in addition to France, mass demonstrations were held in Athens, Greece; Belgrade, Yugoslavia; Vienna, Austria; Berlin and Frankfurt, Germany; Copenhagen, Denmark; and Stockholm, Malmo and six other cities in Sweden, and then on July 19 at the Israeli Embassy in Stockholm. Mike Powers writes us that with the corporate media trying to stir up anger for sanctions against Russia, lots of people in Stockholm are wondering, “What about sanctions against Israel?”

There were also demonstrations in Brussels, Belgium, and in cities all across the Spanish state, as we reported last week in Workers World. One of the biggest of the European demonstrations took place in London, England, where, according to the Huffington Post, some 15,000 people marched on July 19 in a march that gathered people from all over the island. There were also demonstrations in Dublin, Ireland.

Just as in the U.S., there were demonstrations to the north from Montreal in Quebec to Vancouver, B.C., Canada. In Australia, there were pro-Gaza demonstrations in Perth, Canberra and Melbourne on July 19 and in Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide on July 20. More than 1,000 people held a similar protest in Auckland, New Zealand.

While the Israeli state still has the full backing of the major imperialist oppressors — the so-called international community — its war crimes in Gaza are diminishing the number of people who might previously have been misled. The organization “Jews Against Genocide,” which includes Israeli Jews, held demonstrations in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv and before Israeli embassies and consulates in Madrid, San Francisco, Stockholm and Copenhagen — with more scheduled. They set aflame dolls covered in red paint before the holocaust memorial museum on July 12.

Another people displaced by a settler-state, the Diné (called Navajo) people, held a protest in Window Rock on the Diné Reservation in Arizona on July 17 against “the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian region of Gaza and Navajo President Ben Shelly’s partnership with the state of Israel outside the Navajo Council Chambers.” (Navajo Times)

  http://www.iacenter.org/palestine/gaza-world-072314/" rel="nofollow - http://www.iacenter.org/palestine/gaza-world-072314/







Replies:
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 02:02
Approve Beer  One more step in the right direction in an attempt to make the world a better place

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“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart





Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 02:24
Ahhhhhh....ain't nothing like some good 'ol terror for achieving piece.




Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 02:30
Typically simplistic bollocks. Svetonio, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

It is articles, and sentiments, such as this that persuaded me a few years back to move away from the so-called Socialist Left movements (there are many of them - they split more often than I have tea).

When will you lot realise that it is not just a question of Palestinian's innocent and good, and Israeli's Zionist, Capitalist. And, by extension, bad or evil.

The Palestinian question is a tragedy, most certainly for the people who have to live there, if you can call it a life.

However, when you have a bunch of nut cases (and this is most certainly what the leaders of Hamas are) lobbing missiles at you (very cowardly being sent from populated areas or hospitals and schools), or sending wretches over to blow themselves to Kingdom come in order to take Jewish lives (with, of course, the promise of an eternally grateful God providing suitably eager virgins), then just how on earth do you expect Israel to react? When you have a shocking ruling clique continuing to demand the obliteration of the "Jewish State", when will there be any room for any meaningful compromise or negotiation.

I am watching an interview on BBC with some UN chappie now. He, rightly, points out the senseless slaughter and the need for a permanent ceasefire. I fully agree with him.

However, when people begin to realise that there is wrong and evil on both sides of the divide, and the need for compromise on both sides, not just one, then we might just get somewhere.


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 02:45
^Well put. The two sides are, without doubt, as bad as each other.

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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:01


Abdul Rahman Al-Burgan (9 years old), in front of his house near the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron in the occupied West Bank.
Despite the child's screaming and begging, but that did not satisfy the soldiers' aggression. One of them kicked him without any pity.
This is the second time during a month in which this child was beaten.
His father's leg was cut in a car accident a year ago and is having difficulty in providing food for his children.




A female Israeli soldier beats and spits on 3 Palestinian children while her colleague is seen picking up stones and throwing them at the children as they drive away. Ras at-Tira checkpoint, Qalandia.




The Israeli army has expressed a note of contrition after a television station aired a videotape showing an army assault on a Palestinian home in which a mother of five children died.



Israeli soldiers beating a Palestinian girl.





Israel stop the nonsense!


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:03
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

^Well put. The two sides are, without doubt, as bad as each other.

Sorry but no. Putting aside mistakes that happen in every war, Israel is always reacting. You have no idea how much thought and planning is put on those air strikes. If you and your family choose to live in your house while it serves as a missile bunker (after you get phone texts and mail that your house is gonna be demolished) then it's on you buddy. I mean would you send your kids dancing in a field mine and then accuse the man who planted them there?

But I wonder what would you offer to a country that are taking about 150-200 missiles a day to do?





Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:03
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Approve Beer  One more step in the right direction in an attempt to make the world a better place


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:06
And Svetonio I can post videos that show the exact opposite, so do you have anything meaningful to say?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:10

A professor and researcher for a right-wing Israeli think tank suggested in an interview earlier this month that raping Arab women was the only way to deter suicide bombers.

After Palestinians allegedly abducted and killed three Israeli teens in late June, Bar-Ilan University professor Dr. Mordechai Kedar spoke with a Hebrew-language radio show about what could be done to stop Hamas...

Read More At:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/22/right-wing-professor-raping-arab-women-is-the-only-thing-that-deters-suicide-bombers/" rel="nofollow - http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/22...

Clip from the Tuesday, July 22nd 2014 edition of The Kyle Kulinski Show, which airs live on Blog Talk Radio and Secular Talk Radio monday - friday 4-6pm Eastern.

Check out our website - and become a member - at:
http://www.seculartalkradio.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.SecularTalkRadio.com

Listen to the Live Show or On Demand archive at:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kylekulinski" rel="nofollow - http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kylekuli...

Follow on Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/kylekulinski" rel="nofollow - http://www.twitter.com/kylekulinski

Like on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/SecularTalk" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/SecularTalk


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:10
My condolences to the Palestinian people caught up in this mess. Hamas, their allies/supporters/etc. and any group like them, on the other hand, can go step on a Lego brick for all I care.

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:11
It's very sad.  Someday Israelis and Palestinians will be friends and work together but that's a long way off.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:13
Is that guy trolling about the rape thing or is he dead serious about that?
 



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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:16

This Video is to show the Jewish Community around the world among others who are outraged that there religion Judaism has been hijacked by Zionists who happen to be secular. The Zionists are using the sympathy of the Jews from events in World War 2 to justify there Brutal Occupation of Palestine and the Ethnic Cleansing of Arabs from the region. The Recent Assault on Gaza Has united people around the world with a common enemy which is zionism and this will help bring Justice to the Oppressed, We Recognise Jews Who stand with the palestinians and a message sent from all quarters of the world to the Palestinians You Are Not Alone.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:21
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

Is that guy trolling about the rape thing or is he dead serious about that?
 

Yes, sadly that proffessor is actually well know right-wing activist in Israel. 

Quote “You have to understand the culture in which we live,” Kedar explained in the June 1 interview, according to a transcript  http://forward.com/articles/202558/israeli-professor-suggests-rape-as-terror-deterren/?" rel="nofollow - published by Haaretz . “Terrorists like those who kidnapped the children and killed them — the only thing that deters them is if they know that their sister or their mother will be raped in the event that they are caught. What can you do, that’s the culture in which we live.”

You can read the full story http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/22/right-wing-professor-raping-arab-women-is-the-only-thing-that-deters-suicide-bombers/" rel="nofollow - here




Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:31
A lot of good that will do, the terrorists will just use regular bombs, grenades, rockets, guns and the like.

To paraphrase a quote from Stalag 17: "Just because the terrorists are dumb, that doesn't mean that they're stupid."


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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:37

Hundreds of protesters take to the streets of New York to rally against the ongoing violence between Israel and Gaza. Nathan Frandino reports.




Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:41
^ Yeah we friggin get it, people are pissed, we watch the news too -



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:45

Thousands of people in Paris and Lyon have rallied to express their protest against Israel’s military operation in Gaza, which has resulted in over 600 deaths, many of them children. Read more: http://on.rt.com/k87ods" rel="nofollow - http://on.rt.com/k87ods


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:47
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It's very sad.  Someday Israelis and Palestinians will be friends and work together but that's a long way off.

It will be when Palestina will be a free country.


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:47
Svetonio you know there are exactly the opposite protests too?

And about that holocaust survivor, the only difference between him and Hamas related people is that he wasn't a terrorist back in Germany, and another thing is I'll bet my ass he doesn't live in Israel.

And please stop with those idiotic videos they really don't serve your point.


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:49
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It's very sad.  Someday Israelis and Palestinians will be friends and work together but that's a long way off.

It will be when Palestina will be a free country.

A free country without terror you mean.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:53




Bradford witnessed the biggest demonstration in its history yesterday as 5,000 people gathered at a Solidarity for Gaza event in the city's Centenary Square. Speakers including George Galloway and others gathered to denounce the crimes being committed against the Palestinian people in Gaza over the last week.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 03:57
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It's very sad.  Someday Israelis and Palestinians will be friends and work together but that's a long way off.

It will be when Palestina will be a free country.

A free country without terror you mean.
Palestine must be a sovereign and internationally recognized country.
This is the only way to stop the violence on both sides.


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:02
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


...

Palestine must be a sovereign and internationally recognized country.
This is the only way to stop the violence on both sides.

Never mind the fact that there will probably still be grudges on both sides, not to mention the religious fanaticism that Hamas embraces.


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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:02
In hindsight the UN should have thought twice about placing Israel where it is.   But that's where it was, and there wouldn't be much point in reestablishing it if you put it on Guam.   On the other hand, on Guam things would be more peaceful ~ barring the occasional native uprising ~ which is to say Israel and Palestine wouldn't have a dispute. 



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:18
My favourite politician ever, Marshal Tito of Yugoslavia, with his friend Yasser Arafat.








Great man of Palestine last salute to the great man of Yugoslavia: Yasser Arafat in front of Tito's coffin, Belgrade 1980






We were learned in basic school to love free Palestine and Palestinian people, and their fight for freedom.
And we are still love Palestine. 
Free Palestine!





Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:19
Oy.

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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:25
The last thing I'm gonna say to you Svetonio cause you're just talking to yourself here and that's all you care about.
I'm up for two states, I really am, what benefit do you think we are getting by occupying these very small piece of land?
We don't live there and it costs a lot of money, you know Israel is supplying electricity and water (yes to the terrorists too). But there are ways to get your freedom, and if they continue this way I hope Israel's aggression will only increase.


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:35
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

^Well put. The two sides are, without doubt, as bad as each other.



I totally agree. Bad on both sides...

I do feel that the Israeli approach is disproportionate, but there is no simple solution, and the biggest problem is that the citizens of Gaza - especially the kids - who just want peace risk being radicalised and filled with hatred for Israel, thus lining up the next generation of terrorists. This is one of the key factors in perpetuating the fight from one generation to the next imo.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:45

Jon Snow has been speaking to youngsters in Gaza City about their lives and how they're coping with living in a warzone. And he also talks to Dr Mads Gilbert - a Norwegian doctor working at al Shifa hospital - who is treating some of the children.





Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:50
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

^Well put. The two sides are, without doubt, as bad as each other.



I totally agree. Bad on both sides...

I do feel that the Israeli approach is disproportionate, but there is no simple solution, and the biggest problem is that the citizens of Gaza - especially the kids - who just want peace risk being radicalised and filled with hatred for Israel, thus lining up the next generation of terrorists. This is one of the key factors in perpetuating the fight from one generation to the next imo.

How is it disproportionate? because of the numers of deaths? well I can assure you that if we didn't have that new system Iron Dome Israel would take approximately 3000 missiles up till now, that would hit populated areas and numbers of deaths in Israel could be just the same or even more. So maybe then would it be justified to act as we do?

I mean if a man slaps you in the face do you punch back only if it hurts you?




Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 04:54

The spiraling number of children killed in the latest conflict between Israel and the Palestinian group Hamas in Gaza has raised international concern.


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 11:14
I have distant Israeli family members and they worry about what the IDF has done in Gaza...

I also attended and observed an Israel/Palestine protest here in Copley Square. The hate and the racism spewed by both sides was horrific... I blame foreign powers for using their proxies here...


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 11:21
I'm in complete support of Isreal here, they have the right to defend themselves from terrorists. The cowards hide amongst the women and children not caring that they put them at risk. I'm so glad our government is 100% behind Isreal.

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 11:37
I stand with you Sagi and with Israel.  


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 11:46
Israeli female soldiers have been disciplined after posting pictures of themselves in their underwear on Facebook




Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 11:47
Okay, Svet, I'm all with the idea of defending Palestinian children from being bombed/beaten/etc., but Arafat was an Censored, not a great man.


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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 12:10
This thread should be called "Me posting videos and pictures and reproducing someone else's comments trying to get a visceral reaction from others who make good arguments but which I will conveniently ignore".

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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 12:17
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

Okay, Svet, I'm all with the idea of defending Palestinian children from being bombed/beaten/etc., but Arafat was an Censored, not a great man.

 
 
 
 
Arafat was a pig and I would have loved to kick his ass when he was alive.


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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 12:53
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:


Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

^Well put. The two sides are, without doubt, as bad as each other.



I totally agree. Bad on both sides...

I do feel that the Israeli approach is disproportionate, but there is no simple solution, and the biggest problem is that the citizens of Gaza - especially the kids - who just want peace risk being radicalised and filled with hatred for Israel, thus lining up the next generation of terrorists. This is one of the key factors in perpetuating the fight from one generation to the next imo.
How is it disproportionate? because of the numers of deaths? well I can assure you that if we didn't have that new system Iron Dome Israel would take approximately 3000 missiles up till now, that would hit populated areas and numbers of deaths in Israel could be just the same or even more. So maybe then would it be justified to act as we do?I mean if a man slaps you in the face do you punch back only if it hurts you?


Depends why he has slapped you... A silly analogy.

It looks disproportionate to me from where I am. It doesn;t seem that way to you of course, partly because you are there. I'm not getting into a debate as to what would be proportionate to my mind. There would be no point as neither of us are going to convince the other of their perspective.

I'll leave it there just adding that I hope you are safe where you are.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 12:57
If a man slaps you in the face you don't punch his kids.  

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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 12:58
800-some to 30-some death counts isn't a war.  It's a massacre.

Estimates hover around 75% of dead Palestinians being civilians.

And yet Israel's pocket politicians here in the west continuously go "yeah well if they didn't elect Hamas blah blah blag"

Besides the whole thing is about Israel ignoring UN in the first place and trying to steal all the land.  It's blatantly obvious that Israel isn't interested in a peaceful solution.

(not gonna reopen this thread btw too many politics for a music site)


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 13:03
I actually support Israel.




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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 13:15
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

If a man slaps you in the face you don't punch his kids.  

I will if stands behind them as a shield, and then peeps again to go for another one, hoping I will spare him because of his children. That's what happening in real life btw.

Just today I watched a video on the news, showing a tunnel coming from the parents bedroom (used to smuggle ammunition) and in the kitchen childrens plates with last night's dinner, this is nuts.

You can't hide behind civilians firing missiles and complain about me killing the ones you're hiding behind.


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 13:24
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

I'm in complete support of Isreal here, they have the right to defend themselves from terrorists. The cowards hide amongst the women and children not caring that they put them at risk. I'm so glad our government is 100% behind Isreal.

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I stand with you Sagi and with Israel.  

Thank you guys for your support! I know it's hard to see what's actaully going on when you look at the numbers of casualties. The man's first instinct is to go with the weaker side and the one who got much more casualties on his side, but guys there's a bigger story here.

For everyone who have an opinion, that'll be nice to hear some suggestions to solve this matter.


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 13:30
I'm not sure how you solve this matter when Isreal's enemies believe that Isreal should not exist. 

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 14:24
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

If a man slaps you in the face you don't punch his kids.  

I will if stands behind them as a shield, and then peeps again to go for another one, hoping I will spare him because of his children. That's what happening in real life btw.

Just today I watched a video on the news, showing a tunnel coming from the parents bedroom (used to smuggle ammunition) and in the kitchen childrens plates with last night's dinner, this is nuts.

You can't hide behind civilians firing missiles and complain about me killing the ones you're hiding behind.


It's a horrible situation for Israel and the Israelis.  But they have the technology not to bomb hospitals and schools that they know are UN run and kill children and UN staff that they have been told are there. 

I just don't know what they think they will achieve? Even if there are terrorists and missiles there then they will soon be replaced.  By killing children all they do is create new 'terrorists' for the future.  When 4 year olds start holding a grudge then you know you are in trouble. 

I try and imagine what Ireland would be like now if when the IRA had bombed London we had then started sendin missiles over to Ireland.  I suspect that things would be very different.  The only thing that has even the slightest chance of success is 'jaw jaw'. 






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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 15:29
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

I just don't know what they think they will achieve?


In short, it's because they're insane religious zealots at war with insane religious zealots with a whole lot of people caught between. As long as the zealots fight each other, the bystanders have to hide with the zealots or be killed by the other zealots. Seek peace and you'll end up like Yitzhak Rabin. This is part of why Israel is a http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-and-the-dangers-of-ethnic-nationalism/5356677" rel="nofollow - creepy, self-defeating, and ironic brand of nationalist .

I've come to the conclusion that the only way to solve this long-term is by international force of arms. Israel will not ever solve this problem, and no-one else can do anything because Israel holds the greater economic and military power. This remains in perpetuity until enough people get fed up and destroy Israel. There is no other outcome without international involvement.


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Hail Eris!


Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 15:38
I really can't be arsed to debate right now... Plus I don't know enough about the subject (my position is supporting Palestine at the moment, but that may change, or may not, once I know a lot more). However, I improvised the score to a film (along with a bass player and a drummer) that covers this very issue, so I feel it's probably relevant.




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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 16:36
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

I'm not sure how you solve this matter when Isreal's enemies believe that Isreal should not exist. 

That is the absolute key to this. This will never be solved as long as Israel's neighbours, most of whom are run by utter lunatics, terrorists, or religious fanatics, have, at their core, the constitutional right to destroy Israel.

People such as Svetonio, and his like, should realise that if they were governed by Islamists, they would not last two minutes. Why? Because most Trots, Stalinists, or other such people, are dedicated atheists. What do Islamists do to atheists? Erm..............


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 16:54
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

That is the absolute key to this. This will never be solved as long as Israel's neighbours, most of whom are run by utter lunatics, terrorists, or religious fanatics, have, at their core, the constitutional right to destroy Israel.


Oh, and Russia wants to annex the old empire again. Guess we should get out the guns, eh? You're not really getting anywhere with the paranoia argument. Well, except maybe deserving the endless war you make in the process.

(Also, lol @ bolded.)


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Hail Eris!


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 17:10
It always amazes me that Muslim crowds will protest en masse against Israel or the U.S., but when it comes to Islamic groups perpetrating atrocities across the world, often against other Muslims, you couldn't find a single one who will voice dissent.

Where is the Islamic outrage over Boko Haram abducting hundreds of teenage girls, or ISIL blowing up mosques and slaughtering other Muslims?

Not a peep. Muslims need to be quarantined.






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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 17:51
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

That is the absolute key to this. This will never be solved as long as Israel's neighbours, most of whom are run by utter lunatics, terrorists, or religious fanatics, have, at their core, the constitutional right to destroy Israel.


Oh, and Russia wants to annex the old empire again. Guess we should get out the guns, eh? You're not really getting anywhere with the paranoia argument. Well, except maybe deserving the endless war you make in the process.

(Also, lol @ bolded.)


f**k you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655


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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 18:00
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

IWhere is the Islamic outrage over Boko Haram abducting hundreds of teenage girls


Let's be as lazy as possible and see if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#Middle_East_and_Asia" rel="nofollow - Wikipedia has an answer for you. How about this gem:

Quote Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam" rel="nofollow - Shia Islam jurisprudent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ayatollah_Naser_Makarem_Shirazi" rel="nofollow - Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi has denied any relationship between the Nigerian group and Islam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#cite_note-ABNA_22_May_20q4-48" rel="nofollow - [48] He has described the group as "savages who do not deserve to be called human beings".


So yeah, totally supportive, eh?

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

f**k you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655


OK?


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Hail Eris!


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 18:04
^ look at your country first then criticise Russians


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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 18:07
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

^ look at your country first then criticise Russians


I think you missed the point. I'm applying the obsessive ethnocentric paranoia of Israel to Europe, where the justification would seem pretty hollow. Russia may want its lost territories back, but starting a shooting war with Russia over that belief would be pretty goddamn nuts.

//EDIT: It's also important to remember that people often have beliefs in what should be that they are not really interested in attempting to enact. Christians believe everyone should be godly Christian people, but they aren't posting themselves outside houses and shooting anyone who doesn't leave for church on time.


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Hail Eris!


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 18:11
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

For everyone who have an opinion, that'll be nice to hear some suggestions to solve this matter.
The matter should have been resolved back in the 40's and 50's and the longer the solution is not given the worse it becomes (see also illegal occupation of northern Cyprus).

I do feel for both nations and their casualties but not necessarily for their political leaders. And of course the west, through the centuries, has only looked at its own benefits from the region, thereby letting the problem continue to grow.

Simple condemnations of practice and illegal activity do not really help. A solution could arise when the big powers get interested in something like http://www.globalresearch.ca/oil-found-by-israel-should-belong-to-palestine-3-5-billion-barrels-of-oil-reserves-on-the-border-between-israel-and-palestine/5362043" rel="nofollow - this


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 18:16
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

^ look at your country first then criticise Russians


I think you missed the point. I'm applying the obsessive ethnocentric paranoia of Israel to Europe, where the justification would seem pretty hollow. Russia may want its lost territories back, but starting a shooting war with Russia over that belief would be pretty goddamn nuts.


Russia is not a problem. Israel is not a problem either. The problem is the US and their banksters. As always. They accept any war if they make money. Goddamn motherf**kers.


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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 19:16
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

^ look at your country first then criticise Russians


I think you missed the point. I'm applying the obsessive ethnocentric paranoia of Israel to Europe, where the justification would seem pretty hollow. Russia may want its lost territories back, but starting a shooting war with Russia over that belief would be pretty goddamn nuts.


Russia is not a problem. Israel is not a problem either. The problem is the US and their banksters. As always. They accept any war if they make money. Goddamn motherf**kers.

Biased much?


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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 19:26
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:


Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

IWhere is the Islamic outrage over Boko Haram abducting hundreds of teenage girls
Let's be as lazy as possible and see if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#Middle_East_and_Asia" rel="nofollow - Wikipedia has an answer for you. How about this gem:[quote]Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam" rel="nofollow - Shia Islam jurisprudent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ayatollah_Naser_Makarem_Shirazi" rel="nofollow - Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi has denied any relationship between the Nigerian group and Islam.<sup id="cite_ref-ABNA_22_May_20q4_48-0" ="reference"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#cite_note-ABNA_22_May_20q4-48" rel="nofollow - <span>[</span>48<span> - </span> He has described the group as "savages who do not deserve to be called human beings".


Nice selective Wiki -- if only there wre only a hundred thousand more protesting the heinous acts perpatrated by Islam across the world, then perhaps you would actually be in context with what I said.

But your boy, the Ayatollah Shirazi, is a real peace of work. He advocates stoning women in most cases of adultery and believes the Holocaust is a superstition. The "holy man" even believes dogs are evil and should be banned from Islamic households.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 19:28
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:


Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

IWhere is the Islamic outrage over Boko Haram abducting hundreds of teenage girls
Let's be as lazy as possible and see if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#Middle_East_and_Asia" rel="nofollow - Wikipedia has an answer for you. How about this gem:[quote]Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam" rel="nofollow - Shia Islam jurisprudent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ayatollah_Naser_Makarem_Shirazi" rel="nofollow - Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi has denied any relationship between the Nigerian group and Islam.<sup id="cite_ref-ABNA_22_May_20q4_48-0" ="reference"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#cite_note-ABNA_22_May_20q4-48" rel="nofollow - <span>[</span>48<span>"></span> He has described the group as "savages who do not deserve to be called human beings".


Nice selective Wiki -- if only there wre only a hundred thousand more protesting the heinous acts perpatrated by Islam across the world, then perhaps you would actually be in context with what I said.

But your boy, the Ayatollah Shirazi, is a real peace of work. He advocates stoning women in most cases of adultery and believes the Holocaust is a superstition. The "holy man" even believes dogs are evil and should be banned from Islamic households.

And what about this ISIS that is supported by our current US authorities? They're fighting the Shiites in the Middle East...


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 20:02
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

I'm not sure how you solve this matter when Isreal's enemies believe that Isreal should not exist. 

That is the absolute key to this. This will never be solved as long as Israel's neighbours, most of whom are run by utter lunatics, terrorists, or religious fanatics, have, at their core, the constitutional right to destroy Israel.

People such as Svetonio, and his like, should realise that if they were governed by Islamists, they would not last two minutes. Why? Because most Trots, Stalinists, or other such people, are dedicated atheists. What do Islamists do to atheists? Erm..............
 
Good points Steve and the thing is if you threw a ton of money at the Palistinians the Hamas would just use it for weapons because their ultimate goal is to wipe Isreal off of the map. So what do you do? Isreal is not going to be pushed around after the Holocaust and I say the more power to them.
 


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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 20:12
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

And what about this ISIS that is supported by our current US authorities? They're fighting the Shiites in the Middle East...


What now? The U.S. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/05/226067.htm" rel="nofollow - does not support ISIS / ISIL / IS, and the Iranians don't support them either.

Re: Dark Elf, you're an ignorant internet f**kwad with a bone to pick about sh*t you don't understand in the slightest, so I'm not going to respond to you further.


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Hail Eris!


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 20:41
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

...

Russia is not a problem. Israel is not a problem either. The problem is the US and their banksters. As always. They accept any war if they make money. Goddamn motherf**kers. 

It still doesn't excuse Hamas being a bunch of self-righteous sociopaths.


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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 20:41
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:



Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

And what about this ISIS that is supported by our current US authorities? They're fighting the Shiites in the Middle East...
What now? The U.S. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/05/226067.htm" rel="nofollow - does not support ISIS / ISIL / IS, and the Iranians don't support them either.Re: Dark Elf, you're an ignorant internet f**kwad with a bone to pick about sh*t you don't understand in the slightest, so I'm not going to respond to you further.


My, I merely quote selected items from your beloved Ayatollah, and suddenly you go on an immature rant. Watch your tone, junior.

And I do know what is going on, thanks. My Chaldean friends in Iraq are having their churches and monasteries taken away. They are being forced to convert at the end of a gun or are forced to pay a tax to remain Christian. In Palestine, the Christians have been systematically thrown out of Bethlehem by Muslims (so much for the birthplace of Christianity).

Where ever Muslims are in a majority they practice their intolerance and barbaric Stone Age rituals. There is no place for this in a civilized world.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 20:51
Also, this may be speculation, but I think the only reason that Ayatollah Shirazi condemned Boko Haram in the first place is that BH are Sunnis. The Ayatollas of Iran are Shiites.  

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 20:54
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

The Ayatollas of Iran are sh*tes.  


Sorted.Approve


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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 20:56
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

And what about this ISIS that is supported by our current US authorities? They're fighting the Shiites in the Middle East...


What now? The U.S. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/05/226067.htm" rel="nofollow - does not support ISIS / ISIL / IS, and the Iranians don't support them either.

Re: Dark Elf, you're an ignorant internet f**kwad with a bone to pick about sh*t you don't understand in the slightest, so I'm not going to respond to you further.

The US does not support ISIS/ISIL/IS, then why do they have US arms, US uniforms, US weapons and one of the more honest Senators from the US Congress mentioned this in his speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CXYgstOBU" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CXYgstOBU


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 21:02
^ Well it ain't hard to buy American fatigues, or guns for that matter.  Isn't that one of our main exports?

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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 21:10
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Well it ain't hard to buy American fatigues, or guns for that matter.  Isn't that one of our main exports?

I have talked to someone from Syria and this is what they tell me.

Whatever the US is doing, the country shouldn't be doing this... Of course, attacking Syria and then Iran is more important for them...


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 21:26
If this true, then this is one of the most boneheaded decisions the U.S. government has done in recent years. Have they not learned anything from the Iran-Iraq War or the Soviet-Afghan War?

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 22:00
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

The US does not support ISIS/ISIL/IS, then why do they have US arms, US uniforms, US weapons and one of the more honest Senators from the US Congress mentioned this in his speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CXYgstOBU" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CXYgstOBU


They've got quite a bit of it not from other Syrian rebels but from Iraqi troops who abandoned them. Their main backers in Syria are Middle-Eastern. U.S. intelligence didn't just find out about ISIL or something; it's the same group previously called Al-Qaeda in Iraq.


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Hail Eris!


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 22:05
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:


Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:



Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

And what about this ISIS that is supported by our current US authorities? They're fighting the Shiites in the Middle East...
What now? The U.S. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/05/226067.htm" rel="nofollow - does not support ISIS / ISIL / IS, and the Iranians don't support them either.Re: Dark Elf, you're an ignorant internet f**kwad with a bone to pick about sh*t you don't understand in the slightest, so I'm not going to respond to you further.
The US does not support ISIS/ISIL/IS, then why do they have US arms, US uniforms, US weapons and one of the more honest Senators from the US Congress mentioned this in his speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CXYgstOBU" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CXYgstOBU


A simple internet look-up provides scores of articles showing that ISIL has commandeered huge amounts of U.S. army surplus in Iraq: howitzers, humvees, tanks and munitions. The Iraqi army is as worthless now as it was when they were led by Sadam. Run away and live another day.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 22:23
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:


Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:


Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:



I'm not sure how you solve this matter when Isreal's enemies believe that Isreal should not exist. 

That is the absolute key to this. This will never be solved as long as Israel's neighbours, most of whom are run by utter lunatics, terrorists, or religious fanatics, have, at their core, the constitutional right to destroy Israel.
People such as Svetonio, and his like, should realise that if they were governed by Islamists, they would not last two minutes. Why? Because most Trots, Stalinists, or other such people, are dedicated atheists. What do Islamists do to atheists? Erm..............

 
Good points Steve and the thing is if you threw a ton of money at the Palistinians the Hamas would just use it for weapons because their ultimate goal is to wipe Isreal off of the map. So what do you do? Isreal is not going to be pushed around after the Holocaust and I say the more power to them.
 

This is not an assumption buddy. I hope you've heard about the tunnels they were building, coming out of people houses and going in several directions, covered with cement equipped with electricity and transport rails for moving heavy stuff, a real work of art I admit. The army has so far discovered more than 30 tunnels used to get weapons and pretty much everything they need from Egypt. A few tunnels came out under the Israeli border and was supposed to aid them in their mega terror attack scheduled to our upcoming new years eve. They were supposed to come out of their tunnels in hundreds and slay the whole area. This was just discovered and pretty much shocked the whole country.

What I wanted to say is that each huge tunnel like this cost millions to build, so just think what could they do with the money while the majority of them is so poor.


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 22:33
Of course, why fix your own world when you can spend an eternity with 72 virgin maidens in heaven?

That's what you get when you have political/religious nuts running your government.


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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 23:10
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

If this true, then this is one of the most boneheaded decisions the U.S. government has done in recent years. Have they not learned anything from the Iran-Iraq War or the Soviet-Afghan War?

It's to fight the Iranian Shiite influence in Iraq and Iran.. And to balkanize the entire region.... I really feel awful for the people in the region....UnhappyAngry


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 26 2014 at 23:33
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:


Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

IWhere is the Islamic outrage over Boko Haram abducting hundreds of teenage girls
Let's be as lazy as possible and see if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#Middle_East_and_Asia" rel="nofollow - Wikipedia has an answer for you. How about this gem:[quote]Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam" rel="nofollow - Shia Islam jurisprudent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ayatollah_Naser_Makarem_Shirazi" rel="nofollow - Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi has denied any relationship between the Nigerian group and Islam.<sup id="cite_ref-ABNA_22_May_20q4_48-0" ="reference"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#cite_note-ABNA_22_May_20q4-48" rel="nofollow - <span>[</span>48<span> - </span> He has described the group as "savages who do not deserve to be called human beings".


Nice selective Wiki -- if only there wre only a hundred thousand more protesting the heinous acts perpatrated by Islam across the world, then perhaps you would actually be in context with what I said.

But your boy, the Ayatollah Shirazi, is a real peace of work. He advocates stoning women in most cases of adultery and believes the Holocaust is a superstition. The "holy man" even believes dogs are evil and should be banned from Islamic households.
Exactly. This post is common sense. So far I've never seen MASS demonstrations against the heinous acts of islamic barbarism. But dare to draw funny Mohamed and see what happens to your head...

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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 00:00
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I stand with you Sagi and with Israel.  
I bet you would, Jim

With 1950's suburbia as your location. I stand by no one. All I want is for this shCensored(the killings) to stop. 


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“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart





Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 00:32
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:


Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:


Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

If a man slaps you in the face you don't punch his kids.  

I will if stands behind them as a shield, and then peeps again to go for another one, hoping I will spare him because of his children. That's what happening in real life btw.Just today I watched a video on the news, showing a tunnel coming from the parents bedroom (used to smuggle ammunition) and in the kitchen childrens plates with last night's dinner, this is nuts.You can't hide behind civilians firing missiles and complain about me killing the ones you're hiding behind.
It's a horrible situation for Israel and the Israelis.  But they have the technology not to bomb hospitals and schools that they know are UN run and kill children and UN staff that they have been told are there.  I just don't know what they think they will achieve? Even if there are terrorists and missiles there then they will soon be replaced.  By killing children all they do is create new 'terrorists' for the future.  When 4 year olds start holding a grudge then you know you are in trouble.  I try and imagine what Ireland would be like now if when the IRA had bombed London we had then started sendin missiles over to Ireland.  I suspect that things would be very different.  The only thing that has even the slightest chance of success is 'jaw jaw'. 

I'm not sure you get it, the bombing of hospitals and schools were intentional not a mistake we could avoid with technology. The UN was amazed that these facilities were used as a weapon storage and a good hide out for their terrorists, well you the what's the military's answer to that right? Oh and before you say something of course there isn't a single bombing that isn't notified before to the residents, if you want to stay there during the bombing it's up to you.

Edit: oh and the situation with Ireland back then, I can't comment because I'm not an expert on the subject but I'm sure the situation and history isn't really the same. And yes jaw jaw is the solution but please just tell it to Hamas first.


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 01:23
Sagi, first of all I hope that you are safe where you are. I'm not going to take part, I am not expert enough in the subject, I am afraid that this looks like one of the world conflicts which will be the hardest to ever resolve, I can imagine a world largely in peace and still Israelis and Palestinians will be fighting each other, I'm afraid that as time goes on the younger generations will not even know why are they fighting each other, it will have become simply an embedded practice in both cultures. I'm afraid none of both sides is really interested in achieving peace, for the Palestinians it has become their raison d'etre and for Israel the art of defense has become a major economical activity.

I want to say just one thing, most countries acting against UN resolutions usually get sanctions, and I do not see it fair that Israel does not get any for not respecting the UN resolutions about the settlements policy. Respect for the UN should be a basic starting point and should be demanded from both sides. The fact that Israel is a powerful country and ally of the US does not justify being able to act against UN resolutions and not getting sanctions for it. Why can not Israel start by stopping the occupation of land which, as per the latest agreements (Oslo if I am not wrong) belonged to Palestina? then start discussing if you want to modify those agreements, but not the other way around.




Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 02:02
Thanks buddy, we are trying hard to be safe but you never know with missiles.
I was always against the settlements but Sharon already tried to be the big man and destroyed a few of them and taking the first step, that wasn't enough for the other side of course and nothing came out of it, thousands of people were evacuated from their homes for nothing!
You gotta make some compromises when you're aiming for peace but the Palestinians have never gave up on a single demand, they wanna win the jack pot or they'll burn you alive.


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 02:19
^ whatever, it still does not justify actively disrespecting the UN resolutions, one thing can not be the excuse for the other.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 02:31
In the future, the superstate of Isralestine will gradually become a major player in the region with their integrated economy and military, for one of the great ironies in history.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 02:33
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

^ whatever, it still does not justify actively disrespecting the UN resolutions, one thing can not be the excuse for the other.

Does the other side respects UN resolutions or is it not obligated to do so because its a terror organization?
It's not an excuse at all, resolutions can not apply on one side. The first step into peace gotta be a cease fire between two sides the we can move on.


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 02:37
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

In the future, the superstate of Isralestine will gradually become a major player in the region with their integrated economy and military, for one of the great ironies in history.
Hallelujah!


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 04:10
Originally posted by Sagichim Sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

^ whatever, it still does not justify actively disrespecting the UN resolutions, one thing can not be the excuse for the other.
 
Does the other side respects UN resolutions or is it not obligated to do so because its a terror organization? 
It's not an excuse at all, resolutions can not apply on one side. The first step into peace gotta be a cease fire between two sides the we can move on.
They are different things, one thing are acts of terrorism and war. You are entitled to defend your country and may attack as response. UN resolutions are something different and I believe that there are many more on Israel than on Palestine. I absolutely condemn Palestinian terrorism against Israel, don't get me wrong.


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 04:47
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

 
Biased much?


I read that book Currency Wars that's not even officially translated into English was never published in the US and certainly will never be. Americans must remain ignorants and feed the system. 

 



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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 04:49
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:


It still doesn't excuse Hamas being a bunch of self-righteous sociopaths.


of course, Hamas is not Israeli though


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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 05:02
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

 
Biased much?
I read that book Currency Wars that's not even officially translated into English was never published in the US and certainly will never be. Americans must remain ignorants and feed the system. 

 Ermm  You read the book or you read that it's not in English?

If you mean the James Rickards book, of course it's available in the U.S., and published in English by Penguin, a British publisher.   Take thirty seconds and do a little research before you bash a people.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 05:11
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

 
 Ermm  You read the book or you read that it's not in English?

If you mean the James Rickards book, of course it's available in the U.S., and published in English by Penguin, a British publisher.   Take thirty seconds and do a little research before you bash a people.




I am not talking about that book , I am talking about Song Hongbing's book. A Chinese author.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_Wars


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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 05:17
Ah, the one that says Jews secretly caused the Battle of Waterloo and the Kennedy Assassination.  Gotcha.  Now we're talkin', and how timely.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 05:25
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Ah, the one that says Jews secretly caused the Battle of Waterloo and the Kennedy Assassination.  Gotcha.  Now we're talkin', and how timely.



Ignorant talking, Jews didn't cause Battle of Waterloo the result of the battle they knew before anyone else in Britain let them made money. Kennedy was obviously assassinated by the banksters cos he gave the Treasury the power "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." That was against FED policy.


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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 05:35
This is getting a tad too absurd for me...

I'm not going to participate in this discussion simply because I have no personal reference points. I don't expect most other commenting on this issue have either, yet they're willing to discuss one of the most intricate and convoluted stand-stills of the world. 
I would have more respect for North Irish folks chiming in as they, to some extend, understands the turmoil and heartache of terrorism - as would I for peeps living in Sri Lanka. 
I very much doubt the capacity of 'normal' people from The US, France, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium or any other moderately peaceful country to comprehend the full picture of what is going on in Gaza at the moment. It is so easy for us to point fingers at something we find despicable and inhuman, yet we fail to realise that it is happening in a world which is faaaaaaar removed from the ones we occupy in our daily life.

Just for the record: I'm not on anyone's side except for the one of peace....and I have friends on both sides of this terrible conflict.


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 05:53
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:



Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

That is the absolute key to this. This will never be solved as long as Israel's neighbours, most of whom are run by utter lunatics, terrorists, or religious fanatics, have, at their core, the constitutional right to destroy Israel.
Oh, and Russia wants to annex the old empire again. Guess we should get out the guns, eh? You're not really getting anywhere with the paranoia argument. Well, except maybe deserving the endless war you make in the process.(Also, lol @ bolded.)
Gamemako, then you really don't know what you're talking about, it isn't paranoia it's a fact!
Just check out their children's kindergardens songs and the stuff they are being brainwashed with. They are being taught to hate, again this is a fact, you can check it out yourself.


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 06:59
^^ Granted Dave, but there are also some historical facts that you cannot simply ignore and are beyond a blaming game. It would be nice if we could develop our arguments based on those.


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 08:40
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

This is getting a tad too absurd for me...

I'm not going to participate in this discussion simply because I have no personal reference points. I don't expect most other commenting on this issue have either, yet they're willing to discuss one of the most intricate and convoluted stand-stills of the world. 
I would have more respect for North Irish folks chiming in as they, to some extend, understands the turmoil and heartache of terrorism - as would I for peeps living in Sri Lanka. 
I very much doubt the capacity of 'normal' people from The US, France, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium or any other moderately peaceful country to comprehend the full picture of what is going on in Gaza at the moment. It is so easy for us to point fingers at something we find despicable and inhuman, yet we fail to realise that it is happening in a world which is faaaaaaar removed from the ones we occupy in our daily life.

Just for the record: I'm not on anyone's side except for the one of peace....and I have friends on both sides of this terrible conflict.
I agree, very few of us if any can comprehend what is going on there (me surely not being one of them), as you rightly say "one of the most intricate and convoluted stand-stills of the world". And I do not want to mess with such a hyper-sensitive subject.
I want to say something though, even if it may upset buddy Sagi for whom I have all respect and I wish peace and the best. Palestine and Israel fight each other, I guess we will not argue on that, Palestinians attack on Israelis and occupation of the other party's land is also a non-violent form of hostility, let's face it. By now the argument whether what is "attack'" or what is "response" or "revenge" is long dead, you can not say anymore, they are all "revenge" in my eyes.
Israel has an army (and a strong one), Palestine does not. I am not sure why bombing by one person is considered terrorism and bombing with a plane is fine. Palestinians do not have an army so the only way they have to fight is the terrorist way. The only important thing is stopping the fight!


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 09:33
I tend to side with the under dog and that is not Israel.  Who has who boxed in here?  Who has all the superior weaponry?  Who has the love of Fox "News" ???


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 09:53


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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: July 27 2014 at 10:34
^ Well it seems you got the situation figuered out now didn't you?

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

This is getting a tad too absurd for me...

I'm not going to participate in this discussion simply because I have no personal reference points. I don't expect most other commenting on this issue have either, yet they're willing to discuss one of the most intricate and convoluted stand-stills of the world. 
I would have more respect for North Irish folks chiming in as they, to some extend, understands the turmoil and heartache of terrorism - as would I for peeps living in Sri Lanka. 
I very much doubt the capacity of 'normal' people from The US, France, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium or any other moderately peaceful country to comprehend the full picture of what is going on in Gaza at the moment. It is so easy for us to point fingers at something we find despicable and inhuman, yet we fail to realise that it is happening in a world which is faaaaaaar removed from the ones we occupy in our daily life.

Just for the record: I'm not on anyone's side except for the one of peace....and I have friends on both sides of this terrible conflict.
I agree, very few of us if any can comprehend what is going on there (me surely not being one of them), as you rightly say "one of the most intricate and convoluted stand-stills of the world". And I do not want to mess with such a hyper-sensitive subject.
I want to say something though, even if it may upset buddy Sagi for whom I have all respect and I wish peace and the best. Palestine and Israel fight each other, I guess we will not argue on that, Palestinians attack on Israelis and occupation of the other party's land is also a non-violent form of hostility, let's face it. By now the argument whether what is "attack'" or what is "response" or "revenge" is long dead, you can not say anymore, they are all "revenge" in my eyes.
Israel has an army (and a strong one), Palestine does not. I am not sure why bombing by one person is considered terrorism and bombing with a plane is fine. Palestinians do not have an army so the only way they have to fight is the terrorist way. The only important thing is stopping the fight!

I think what lacks here is a fundamental understanding of what Hamas's goals are, what are their day to day activities and how they think is the best way of achieving their freedom.
Israel's main goal is to survive while surrounded by Arab countries. The army doesn't plan or issue attacks on civilians, I mean come on do you think Israel has any trouble of bombing the whole Gaza strip leaving it without a trace? so why doesn't the army just do it and save himself the casualties in an on going war?
And what do you think would have happen if Hamas had the opportunity or the means to wipe out Israel? I assure you they would push the button.
I'm not sure how much you read this thread but I already explained why the palestinians has so many civilians casualties. If you want to address this situation taking into consideration only the bottom line, which is 10 times more casualties over at the palestinian side then it's up to you, but you're missing a lot.

Do you want normal life for your people? negotiate. Negotiate as long as it takes because the other side has rights even if you don't acknowledge his existence. Yes it may take years and you don't have to agree on the whole package but do it step by step and your people will have a better chance for normal life. But don't attack me or my people, because I can punch back harder.

I never saw a conflict that was settled by violence, this will not be any different.



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