Tool/Top 100??

GoldenSpiral wrote: Drew wrote: Ok if Tool is here- lets add Audioslave, Motograter, Ill Nino and other bands or the sort. Why not? wow.  that is so ignorant I almost dont know what to say. but I'll try. I really wish I didnt have to keep defending Tool like I do.  I know a lot of people don't like them and that's fine.  Tool fans can be very annoying as they rabidly defend their band and declare Maynard their God.  However, that aside, let's look at the music.  or, since you cant really look at it, listen to it.  If you ever had, you'd quickly realize that Tool has nothing at all in common with Audioslave, motograter or Ill Nino.  Tool has much more in common with King Crimson, and really the only other band they can be compared to is themselves.   The music is incredibly layered, complex, mathematical, melodic and meticulously structured.  Visual art is highly featured in both their albums and live shows.  please see the definition of progressive rock on the homepage if this does not clear things up for you.  I really don't want to say this anymore, but JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE IT DOESNT MEAN ITS NOT PROGRESSIVE.  Audioslave = soundgarden and RATM dumped in a bowl and peed on. Ill Nino = Nu metal Motograter = metal.

I don't understand various things you've stated. I don't hear layers, complexity, mathematics, melody (not everywhere?) and meticulous structures in Tool. What is your credibility, and why are you correct? I still don't see what makes Tool prog or not, you're another fan, no? I see a fan's opinions, but little facts. And yes I have seen the definition of "progressive rock" on the "homepage." JUST BECAUSE YOU LIKE IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S PROGRESSIVE.

 

 

"Progressive rock artists sought to move away from the limitations of radio formatted rock and pop, and "progress" rock to the point that it could achieve the sophistication of jazz or classical music." - "Prog Rock?" Page. Every kid I know who listens to modern rock loves Tool, how could this be? Are we progressing now? How so? Tool is on every modern rock station in my city, they have hooks (Or catches) that grab a young audience. The Mars Volta and Radiohead can't even say that - two controversial bands, should they be here? Maybe. A hook (The thing that grabs you) is something used and recognized very often in Rap/hiphop, pop, modern rock, and classic rock to attract wide audiences, but in prog? Not as common in the modern groups, hence modern prog-bands not being on the radio as less people are attracted to them. Tool does not have this characteristic, just look at fanbase and album sales and also what kind of people are listening.

 

 

The Following are -quotes/not necessarily universal characteristics- from the "Prog Rock?" definition page:

"Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp."

"Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness."

"Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play."

"Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant."

"Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer..."

"Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the virtuosity of the player."

"Inclusion of classical pieces on albums. For example, Yes start their concerts with a taped extract of Stravinsky's Firebird suite..."

"An aesthetic linking the music with visual art, a trend started by The Beatles with Sgt. Pepper's and enthusiastically embraced during the prog heyday."

 

Ask yourself how many of these apply to Tool. Yes, as the person I have quoted has asked, do please check the definition page. I've attempted to play devil's advocate in an unbias way in response to a Tool-fan - and that is all.

 

Drew wrote: Ok if Tool is here- lets add Audioslave, Motograter, Ill Nino and other bands or the sort. Why not?

wow. 

that is so ignorant I almost dont know what to say.

but I'll try.

I really wish I didnt have to keep defending Tool like I do.  I know a lot of people don't like them and that's fine.  Tool fans can be very annoying as they rabidly defend their band and declare Maynard their God.  However, that aside, let's look at the music.  or, since you cant really look at it, listen to it.  If you ever had, you'd quickly realize that Tool has nothing at all in common with Audioslave, motograter or Ill Nino.  Tool has much more in common with King Crimson, and really the only other band they can be compared to is themselves.   The music is incredibly layered, complex, mathematical, melodic and meticulously structured.  Visual art is highly featured in both their albums and live shows.  please see the definition of progressive rock on the homepage if this does not clear things up for you.  I really don't want to say this anymore, but JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE IT DOESNT MEAN ITS NOT PROGRESSIVE. 


Audioslave = soundgarden and RATM dumped in a bowl and peed on.
Ill Nino = Nu metal
Motograter = metal.

Drew wrote: Angeldust wrote: Since when do we talk about the lyrics anyway ? Oops, excuse me TheProtologist..I got so nervous when i saw the posts that wrote it wrong...(what a name though ) I seem to recall many threads about lyrics.

I think lyrics are very important in music. If the lyrics are very immature than
where is the emotion and feeling?

Edited by FragileDT

That review sucks! PoS is much better as a Prog unit that is not afraid to experiment instead of a boring, old Prog Metal band

We can go like that all day long....

King of Loss wrote: Angeldust wrote: What about Operation Mindcrime .... ?Metropolis pt 2? Not that complete compared to BE. BE is about 10000 X more intellectual than those, even those are some of my favorites.

SFAM is more complete

Be=too much talking, weaker compositions. I still like it a lot tho

Something I do not understand is why "controversial" (Said to be prog by some, non-prog by others) bands are not tagged down as such, so you all can stop complaining about it. There are such bands/artists as Deep Purple, Steve Vai, and Tool on this site, and these three are among prog-heroes such as Emerson Lake and Palmer, Genesis, Yes, and Pink Floyd. Often people know what progressive rock is, but include their idols with the proglegends I mentioned. What makes Deep Purple, Steve Vai, and Tool prog? I don't know, you all tell me, perhaps if there's a warning on every review and page involving these three "controversial" artists/bands (And all other controversials) people would complain much less. The list of 100 bands/artists will never be reality for anyone, everyone will disagree with something involving the bands and albums on the list (I know I do). I want to know why Tool is, or isn't prog. Since everyone has their own tiny little opinion but can't give a full answer, Tool and others should be set aside somehow (A tag perhaps) - that is, if kept on this site.

Something new I found interesting and positive about this website is the "Sub-genre" "Proto-prog", this includes the Moody Blues, which many will never consider prog. Now that puts the Moody Blues out of the fire of debate, we (The Website) now go by The Moody Blues as pioneers, not as much a progressive rock group per se. Also, see "Prog Related", Steve Vai and Styx are here (Thank god), but perhaps this should be much larger then it is the moment I wrote this reply.

This is my personal opinion, don't cry about it. Progressive Rock is an astronomical grey area of subjective judgements.

Edited by The Ryan

Even Savatage's streets So underrated

King of Loss wrote: The Miracle wrote: King of Loss wrote: Ahhh. The Perfect Element Part I. I call them TPEP1 That's a good album, except the instruments and the experimentation is MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER on BE and its not just purely based on emotions.. On BE, Gildenlow forgot that music comes befre the concept He applied it perfectly!  No other concept album is as complete as BE

SFAM, The Lamb, etc