Prog albums - CD vs. vinyl

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   I enjoy your posts Pedro..but the LP is not gone, it never was gone and for the foreseeable future is not going anywhere. I don't have statistics but I would venture to say that the CD has lost more ground to digital files than the LP lost to CD back in the 90's.The length of an LP side is finite, of course...but so is a CD at 74 minutes total, changed from the original CD format of 60 minutes because Sony wanted to press some Beethoven concert as 74 minutes, so they made the CD bigger. You can go to 80 minutes but have to change the pitch of the songs to make them fit which goes outside the parameters of redbook, which risks the chance that your CD player will not read the disc. 

To me what the CD has done is allowed artists to include a bunch of extra/bonus/filler songs to fill up the disc. Some of it good, some bad and some just down right not needed, alternate tracks of the original or these special acoustic or non lyric versions.....filler essentially, allowing them to ask for more money..(King Crimson Road To Red 20 some odd CDs)...just saying....Love KC.

Regarding classical music, to me it should only be on CD or hi-rez digital files, because of all the quiet passages....Although life and live concerts have distortion, noise, coughing, sneezing, farting, snoring......

The Soft Machine albums I have are better on vinyl. Never cared for the CD versions
Porcupine Tree In Absentia on CD is damn good, a tad better than the vinyl version, barely though.
Most all Marillion is better sounding on vinyl, Season's End on CD is pretty good and give it the nod...but the others are not even close.
Genesis early albums are poo-poo, as the mix was done badly. The CD reissues are no better, the 2008 remixes by Nick Davis to vinyl are glorious.
Yes on vinyl is much better than Yes on those reissue CDs, except for CTTE on vinyl was not good, when compared to my remixed vinyl version.

I have more I am sure, and remember I am only talking about redbook CD compared to vinyl. 

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Catcher10 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17962	Posted: December 29 2015 at 11:27
	I enjoy your posts Pedro..but the LP is not gone, it never was gone and for the foreseeable future is not going anywhere. I don't have statistics but I would venture to say that the CD has lost more ground to digital files than the LP lost to CD back in the 90's. The length of an LP side is finite, of course...but so is a CD at 74 minutes total, changed from the original CD format of 60 minutes because Sony wanted to press some Beethoven concert as 74 minutes, so they made the CD bigger. You can go to 80 minutes but have to change the pitch of the songs to make them fit which goes outside the parameters of redbook, which risks the chance that your CD player will not read the disc. To me what the CD has done is allowed artists to include a bunch of extra/bonus/filler songs to fill up the disc. Some of it good, some bad and some just down right not needed, alternate tracks of the original or these special acoustic or non lyric versions.....filler essentially, allowing them to ask for more money..(King Crimson Road To Red 20 some odd CDs)...just saying....Love KC. Regarding classical music, to me it should only be on CD or hi-rez digital files, because of all the quiet passages....Although life and live concerts have distortion, noise, coughing, sneezing, farting, snoring...... The Soft Machine albums I have are better on vinyl. Never cared for the CD versions Porcupine Tree In Absentia on CD is damn good, a tad better than the vinyl version, barely though. Most all Marillion is better sounding on vinyl, Season's End on CD is pretty good and give it the nod...but the others are not even close. Genesis early albums are poo-poo, as the mix was done badly. The CD reissues are no better, the 2008 remixes by Nick Davis to vinyl are glorious. Yes on vinyl is much better than Yes on those reissue CDs, except for CTTE on vinyl was not good, when compared to my remixed vinyl version. I have more I am sure, and remember I am only talking about redbook CD compared to vinyl.


moshkito Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18027	Posted: December 29 2015 at 10:07
	Hi, And it even makes me cry ... do you realize how many LP's had the long piece of music "banded' that were issued to radio stations in America? YES, was probably the biggest recipient of that insulting program ... btw! There is not a single LP I would rather have than a CD ... except for a few covers ... love the foldout in Space Ritual, or the fold out in Be Good to Yourself At least Once a Day ... and the beautiful art that Hipgnosis and others created, but otherwise ... I'm glad to see the LP gone. Edited by moshkito - December 29 2015 at 10:14
	Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com

moshkito Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18027	Posted: December 29 2015 at 10:06
	Hi, When I look back to almost 50 years, I'm glad that the LP's are gone. In many ways, they were very nice ... as it helped bring music to the public ... in some other ways, they were HORRIBLE ... because that also meant that some folks could do it, and some could not, and even Tom Dowd's special mentions this in his small discussion of black music in America after the WW2. Those who had it, got it ... that is the movie studios ... and those who didn't ... don't get nothing and they can not sell or show up in radio or tv ...for another 20 some years. I do not know how to discuss this in terms of Europe, and won't. This is strictly about the American side of things at this point. One other detail is important ... we know that music varies in length, and one of the worst things in the LP era, was that it forced music to be trimmed, or brought up to a certain length that we ended up thinking is the standard. THERE IS NO "STANDARD" FOR LENGTH IN MUSIC! AND THERE SHOULDN'T BE! And this was the LP's biggest downfalls. In many cases, even classical music was trimmed to fit the LP's ... magically, all the symphonies and Concerto's of classical music, all fit a LP just right. All operas were the LP's long, except Tosca (2) and Wagner (mandatory 4), which of course hurt its sales in America ... not to mention performance ... way too long and no one can sit through something lasting well into 3 hours! At that point, music appreciation changes ... you become concerned with your butt, and not the work itself, and you are ready to leave before it finishes! Or, just like many of the progressive music fans in this board, they love to say that the musical passages are just filler, and not necessary! The CD age, has busted this, and hopefully in the next 10 years, it will send the music business back to its origins ... it's about the music, not the length, and pop music standards do not apply to ANY OTHER MUSIC OUT THERE! Myself, I simply do not wish to see "progressive" or "prog" associated with the standards and crap that is pop/rock music!
	Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com

Meltdowner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10273	Posted: December 29 2015 at 09:14
	I have plenty of electronic music on CD, for the same reason you mentioned, but for most music I listen, I prefer vinyl. Curiously, I have Atom Heart Mother on CD and vinyl and I like both, they have really good quality and the mixes are quite different: there are some things I like more on one and others I like more on the other.

Sztermel Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: September 30 2012 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 9	Posted: December 29 2015 at 09:09
	Albums like recent Jethro Tull, VDGG or Yes re-editions are better on the CD as they contain unreleased tracks, singles, demos that are usually very good quality.

octopus-4 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14514	Posted: December 29 2015 at 07:23
	As for 3D movies, CD albums are better when they have been conceived for CD. AAD has no sense, if not for saving space at home.
	I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Warthur Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: January 06 2008 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 617	Posted: December 28 2015 at 20:30
	This is not a thread about whether vinyl or CD is the better medium in the abstract - let's face it, that discussion's been had over and over again since the 1980s and it's one of those subjects where everyone has more or less already decided what they think. Instead, I'd like to talk about particular prog albums where in your estimation the vinyl release is better than the CD release, or the CD release is better than the vinyl release - or where both versions are good, but in different ways. In an ideal world, both the vinyl and CD versions of an album would be painstakingly prepared for the mediums in question and be of comparable quality, but I think we all know that only very lucky albums end up getting treated with that level of respect. Sometimes the CD release of an album originally released on vinyl was a half-assed rush job (particularly in the early days of CDs), and sometimes the vinyl issue of an album is likewise put out as an afterthought, or runs into technical limitations of the medium. (For instance, whilst you could push up to 25 minutes or beyond on a vinyl side, I understand that in practice when artists do that there's usually a sacrifice in sound quality as a result.) And even when the CD and vinyl versions of an album are both as best as they can be made, they can still differ interestingly - particularly if people have gone to the effort of making different CD and vinyl mixes to account for the different properties of the mediums. So, what albums do you know which you prefer in CD to vinyl, or vinyl to CD, where you've had access to both? I have to nominate Tangerine Dream's Zeit as a piece I much prefer to listen to on CD, because nothing disrupts a supposedly ambient, minimalistic listening experience like having to change sides every so often. Likewise, I really want to track down good-quality vinyl versions of Soft Machine's Volume One and Two albums, because whilst the CD version I have combining the two is a nice compilation, it is a fairly early CD release and I do wonder whether the vinyl versions come across better.